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10 Mar 2003, 17:12 (Ref:531698)
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#1 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,183
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Road America Cancelled!
Champweb is reporting that the Road America race for 2003 has been cancelled.
http://www.champweb.net/:(  http://www.champweb.net/ If the first link doesn't work, try the second one. If they both don't work, just go to champweb.com . Last edited by Dov; 10 Mar 2003 at 17:20. |
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10 Mar 2003, 17:18 (Ref:531708)
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#2 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,958
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A shame, more to be heard about this for sure. One of the best CART events.
Been a bad week for cancellations.
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10 Mar 2003, 17:24 (Ref:531716)
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#3 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,183
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It's one of the best road courses in the world and now we won't get to see the CART cars flying around their without traction control.
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__________________
Give them good ol' boys the chrome horn PT! |
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10 Mar 2003, 17:35 (Ref:531728)
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#4 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,983
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cart.com put it up originally....seems to be a lawsuit tactic.....
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10 Mar 2003, 17:35 (Ref:531731)
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#5 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,301
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__________________
A good friend will come bail you out of jail. A true freind will be sitting next to you saying "Damn...that was fun!" |
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10 Mar 2003, 18:16 (Ref:531788)
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#6 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 979
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One of the highlites of the CART year usually. What a damn shame.
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10 Mar 2003, 19:54 (Ref:531900)
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#7 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,744
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Could someone with some sway and connections please start up a online petition? (Liz?) I'll do my part hitting the car forums to get people to sign it. http://www.petitiononline.com/
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__________________
No Rotor, No Motor. |
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10 Mar 2003, 20:05 (Ref:531919)
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#8 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 8,125
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Aw, shucks. I just knew this was gonna happen.
Seems the blame lies with the promoter, so I don't know what effect a petition will have. |
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__________________
Don't make a fuss, just get on the bus! |
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10 Mar 2003, 20:10 (Ref:531929)
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#9 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 8,125
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This will leave a three-week gap in the middle of the summer. Wonder if CART has any plans to replace it? Probably not too likely.
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__________________
Don't make a fuss, just get on the bus! |
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10 Mar 2003, 20:21 (Ref:531943)
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#10 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 13,000
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Defiatnely needs a petition to see if we can change their minds. Liz would defiantely be the person to do that. Good thinking Snrub. If one's set up, I'll sign it as soon as I see it. First, F1 loses Spa, and now this. I wonder if CART have approached Herman Tilke yet.
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10 Mar 2003, 20:29 (Ref:531954)
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#11 | ||
 Race OfficialVeteran
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 4,698
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Reading the stories, it just looks horribly legal and complicated. A petition in this case would do no good, best to let both sides sort everything out and hope that an agreement can be reached for the future.
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__________________
DDMC Rescue Crew, Post Chief & Flag Marshal |
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10 Mar 2003, 20:35 (Ref:531964)
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#12 | ||
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Rookie
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 17
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Confirmed. I added a LINK to CART2Day.com for you to email Road America with your comments:
http://www.cart2day.com - see the late braking news at the top! |
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__________________
"because open wheel racing kicks ass" |
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10 Mar 2003, 20:35 (Ref:531966)
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#13 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,936
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*falls over dead*
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__________________
"Put a ****ing wheel on there! Let me go out again!" -Gilles Villeneuve, Zandvoort, 1979 |
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10 Mar 2003, 20:36 (Ref:531967)
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#14 | ||
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Rookie
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 17
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To make matters worse, we have it on good authority from a source within a large and well funded Champ Car team organization that the Mid-Ohio race is not looking good for 2004 and beyond either.. SAVE THE ROAD COURSES
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__________________
"because open wheel racing kicks ass" |
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10 Mar 2003, 20:47 (Ref:531982)
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#15 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,936
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Pook doesn't want to. His career is organizing street races.
 If he was serious about road courses, there's only one conceivable replacement for Elkhart: Virginia International Raceway. This series is quickly going from being the best to the W.U.R.S.T.
Last edited by Lee Janotta; 10 Mar 2003 at 20:51. |
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__________________
"Put a ****ing wheel on there! Let me go out again!" -Gilles Villeneuve, Zandvoort, 1979 |
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10 Mar 2003, 20:58 (Ref:531997)
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#16 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,480
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Below is someone else's opinion from another forum on the matter. It's not popular around these parts but it's one I agree with.
Ah.. the soap opera continues. Calm down everyone. Take a deep breath. This is not the end of the world. Screw RA, it's their loss. The guy who runs that place has been holding the IRL over CART's head for two years now and the weasel won't even pay what he owes from last year. Can't say I'm surprised about the news, if I owned a track, I'd definately look into the IRL, because they pay to race (contrary to popular belief) instead of the other way around. Not that I'd go with IRL, you have to look at the economics and I''d be willing to bet, RA IS SUCKING MUD AND EVEN THE irl WON'T PULL THEM OUT OF THE JAM. Oop's, hit "caps lock". I have no doubt IRL would love to race there, but I don't see it this year. For starters, several IRL teams are struggling to field cars and they still haven't made it to Indy. If IRL wants to throw a road course in, TG had best break out the check book and start buying new transmissions/gearboxes, cause the struggling teams can't afford them, let alone an additional race. I don't know alot about aerodynamics, but one would think there would be even more equipment (wings and such) required to run the road course and the teams don't have the money. One other thing is, where has the IRL succeeded when CART has left? Nowhere! What makes people think they can at a road course, even if it is Road America? If this RA guy shuts the door on the CART fan, what makes people think those fans would attend an IRL event there? This Bruggentheis fellow is reminding me too much of the Penske/Ganassi, my way or I'll just go to the IRL, I could care less about CART, CART hasn't done anything for me. CART doesn't need to be associated with people like this AGAIN! If you look at the economics of things regarding open-wheel racing and road racing in general, RA will be lucky as hell to be around 5 years from now, unless they can get NASCAR. The IRL and CART are not going to help any permanent tracks right now with maybe the exception of Road Atlanta, where they have things going on 360 days a year and it's not in the middle of nowhere. Personally, I like the way Pook is handling the situation, he is a promoter from way back and he knows this guy is a rat and if you give a promoter an inch, he'll take a mile. When a promoter holds the IRL above CART's head, CART usually cut's them loose and every time, the track suffers more than CART. Anyhow, this news is disappointing and i love the track, but I've had enough of people who aren't willing to work with CART especially people who have had a relationship with them for YEARS! CART didn't do anything wrong here. |
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__________________
"All this amateur analysis leads nowhere and is insignificant......So you waste hours, days, months, years of your life for what end? A bit of one-upmanship on the internet?" - Wilton969 |
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10 Mar 2003, 21:03 (Ref:532007)
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#17 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,183
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Are ship is sinking!!! One step forward, then two or three steps back for CART.
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__________________
Give them good ol' boys the chrome horn PT! |
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10 Mar 2003, 21:05 (Ref:532012)
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#18 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,936
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I don't give a **** about the promoter. I care about the track. This would be like the V8 Supercars dropping Bathurst (people would be swinging from trees if that happened!)
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__________________
"Put a ****ing wheel on there! Let me go out again!" -Gilles Villeneuve, Zandvoort, 1979 |
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10 Mar 2003, 21:11 (Ref:532022)
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#19 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,183
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I don't think CART fans are blaming CART. Well, some fans think that Chris Pook is only interested in the street courses, but most fans are upset because it feels like we are losing are racing series.
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__________________
Give them good ol' boys the chrome horn PT! |
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10 Mar 2003, 21:47 (Ref:532065)
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#20 | ||
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14th
1% Club
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 42,601
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This isn't F1 you know, these cars/drivers/teams can race on good tracks
 A great shame. A great track and those cars are fantastic round there. Especially this year
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__________________
Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously. |
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10 Mar 2003, 21:58 (Ref:532078)
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#21 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,276
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Oh yeah, Lee, so you would go to work for free? It's the same situation. Think about it. RA isn't paying, CART has asked for it but they are not paying. What do we have to do?
As for the track, it's still intact. You can't say that of Hockenheim. |
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__________________
"Many people depend on motor racing for their livelihood, to them it is a business. To me, it is a sport." -Jim Clark |
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10 Mar 2003, 22:02 (Ref:532080)
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#22 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,958
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Well it seems clear from the information that we've have heard, that the original suit came about as a result of Road America believing that the CART date was not worth what they were paying. Given a drop of 20% in attendance since the original fees were discussed, I can see how they would come to this conclusion.
As a business, Road America had asked CART to alter their sanction fees agreement, to try and keep the date viable. Apparently CART didn't agree with the figures that Road America decided they needed to get. Who knows what Road America's request was, though rumours suggsest that CART wasn't willing to drop the sanction fee very far. Whom was most reasonable in this negotiation is yet to be seen. It seems clear to me that the difference was such that, Road America thought the risk of losing a money losing race, was worth holding out for. Certainly CART will argue in court that they had a contract, and were operating in good faith. They would appear to be correct to a point. Road America will likely argue that the product delivered by CART had substantially change to the point that it constituted a breach in contract of what would be delivered. Road America will also likely argue that cancelling the race was not operating in good faith. They will likely have some good points. So, whom comes from strengths? Well, I don't know the balance sheet of Road America, but the ownership group are certainly not made of paupers dependent on the income from Road America. Road America has recently added the ALMS race, which they didn't have before, so this is a lower cost event, read no sanction fees, rather a track rental, so a profit generator. Further, it would seem that they could get IRL as a series, who also pays rent, not sanction fees, IF they choose to do this type of format. CART strengths/weaknesses in the situation - Well certainly at a time of weakness at just about every angle, this is a horrible turn of events. What message does this send to other track/promoters? Perhaps "We are unwilling to work together to make these races work for everyone". CART are willing to dole out up to several million dollars to team owners to subsidize and help them out, but aren't willing to work with promoters to make the race work. Perhaps CART just cannot do the race, with the costs (TV, safety crew, organizational costs...)involved, at the price Road America could afford. This seems like the most likely scenario, and probably the most troubling. I am not sure the average length of time the balance of the contracts are for, but surely the sanction fees will come under pressure as they are renewed. This of course means more cost cutting. In the end, we race fans need Road America, and we need a healthy CART. Wishing either bad will due to this doesn't get us anywhere. We are the real losers here. |
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10 Mar 2003, 22:13 (Ref:532091)
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#23 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,936
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Quote:
I wouldn't work for free, but clearly CART's current system of promoters and sanction fees is _not_ working. |
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__________________
"Put a ****ing wheel on there! Let me go out again!" -Gilles Villeneuve, Zandvoort, 1979 |
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10 Mar 2003, 22:27 (Ref:532108)
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#24 | ||
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Rookie
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 72
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I love the track, too, but it's not exactly a center piece, make or break proposition for the series. Say, like Indy or even Long Beach, as far as CART is concerned.
Scheduling Road America is not what's going to lure back the casual yet vital sector of CART fans - afterall, I believe they fill the majority of the seats & bring up our TV ratings. A replacement for RA in a more populated area, may however further help such a cause. Road Atlanta or others may prove more lucrative and popular in the long run - this of course, not accounting for the feelings of CART afficionados. In terms of fan-base & TV ratings, it could be worse, say if we had lost Long Beach. That said, I'm willing to sign any petition, whether deemed helpful or not, for CART to stay at RA. In the end, someone above hit it on the head by stating, if CART is owed money, why race at a track owned by a conniving deadbeat? |
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10 Mar 2003, 22:28 (Ref:532109)
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#25 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,276
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And so what does CART have to do? CART has to get money from somewhere...
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__________________
"Many people depend on motor racing for their livelihood, to them it is a business. To me, it is a sport." -Jim Clark |
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