Fantasy F1 2010 - rules suggestions

[jab]

Greetings fellow forumers. I am in the process of taking the reins of Fantasy F1 from the great Baron Ralf von Fan and I need your help

I do know how these things work but 1) I've never run one before and 2) I've not paid much attention to the one here up until now. So I don't know what the common consensus is on what is wanted and what isn't wanted

At the moment, I'm busy compiling the rules. I'm planning on making a couple of changes:

- As a result of the grid expansion, I am proposing an increase from 1 car selection to 2. These would not have to be different cars - you could pick 2 from the same constructor - but then the whole reason I'm adding this is because we have a bigger grid with effectively 3 tiers. I think it would add a bit more intrigue. The points and prices will be adjusted accordingly

- I was also considering adding a "reserve" driver, where you would pick a 3rd driver at half the cost but he would score you half points. But I'm not convinced - seems a bit complicated to try and implement. Currently leaving it out unless there is sufficient demand

- Also, I am altering the points system, again to account for changes in F1 - more points on offer, a different structure and some more bonuses for the drivers (pole, fastest lap, leading a lap and laps led, to be precise). Just adds another little curveball

Any good?

And is there anything you would like to see?

I will be looking to post the rules and entry thread within the next couple of days, as there is now less than 3 weeks to go until the first race

[courageous]

Originally Posted by jab

Greetings fellow forumers. I am in the process of taking the reins of Fantasy F1 from the great Baron Ralf von Fan and I need your help

I do know how these things work but 1) I've never run one before and 2) I've not paid much attention to the one here up until now. So I don't know what the common consensus is on what is wanted and what isn't wanted

Good luck - it can be fun (if a bit of hard work) running one.

Originally Posted by jab

- As a result of the grid expansion, I am proposing an increase from 1 car selection to 2. These would not have to be different cars - you could pick 2 from the same constructor - but then the whole reason I'm adding this is because we have a bigger grid with effectively 3 tiers. I think it would add a bit more intrigue. The points and prices will be adjusted accordingly

Rather than a 2nd constructor, I think choosing an engine would make more sense.
Score points for top finishing example of your engine, lose points for each blow up.

Originally Posted by jab

- I was also considering adding a "reserve" driver, where you would pick a 3rd driver at half the cost but he would score you half points. But I'm not convinced - seems a bit complicated to try and implement. Currently leaving it out unless there is sufficient demand

Have the 3rd driver rule be "any driver not currently driving in F1" & have it at no cost - if at some point in the season he gets called up them any team who picked him will score points for him (I like the 1/2 points idea - avoids the risk of somebody scoring heavily with 3 drivers)

Originally Posted by jab

- Also, I am altering the points system, again to account for changes in F1 - more points on offer, a different structure and some more bonuses for the drivers (pole, fastest lap, leading a lap and laps led, to be precise). Just adds another little curveball

Make it a very small bonus for leading laps - things like that can skew the results very easily.


Thanks for taking on the challenge.

[jab]

Originally Posted by courageous

Rather than a 2nd constructor, I think choosing an engine would make more sense.
Score points for top finishing example of your engine, lose points for each blow up.

I was thinking about including engines as I've seen it done elsewhere. But how often do you hear of engine failures these days? What classifies as an engine failure? And I don't particularly want to be scratching around trying to find out who's changed an engine before each race

The reason behind 2 constructors is we have a much bigger grid this year and inevitably people are going to go for the bigger teams and leave the likes of Lotus and Virgin out. 2 cars would mean that some may gamble on a smaller team alongside a bigger team, or balance it out with 2 average cars like the Williams or Force India. It's like the drivers, essentially, only you can't pick the same driver twice

Originally Posted by courageous

Have the 3rd driver rule be "any driver not currently driving in F1" & have it at no cost - if at some point in the season he gets called up them any team who picked him will score points for him (I like the 1/2 points idea - avoids the risk of somebody scoring heavily with 3 drivers)

I don't think picking someone from outside F1 would be particularly useful, because it can be pot luck in a lot of occasions. I know the year before last no outside drivers came in all season

Originally Posted by courageous

Make it a very small bonus for leading laps - things like that can skew the results very easily.

It'll only be a point, which is pretty insignificant, but just something to spice things up. 3 for leading the most laps, along with pole and fastest lap. That way if a driver has a mega weekend and yet ends up retiring right at the end (see Massa in Hungary in 2008), whoever picked him still gets a decent points haul

Cheers

[Teretonga]

I am a little wary of the second car rule.... I think an engine would be a better idea. Don't worry about replacment engines. You can choosea car and an engine. If the engine is different from the one in the car it effectively becomes your other option.

If you are going to do the fastest lap, pole, most laps, bonuses its a lot of extra work,
Thanks for doing it. You're a brave man.....

[jab]

It's not that much, really. I've been playing around in Excel tonight and it's easily doable - once it's set up, it's not much on top. I can get all the info off Forix

As for the engines...I think I may go for it

[courageous]

Bear in mind about engines - f1.com results will show a DNF reason & that should be the only time an engine loses points for you (although, thinking about it a BIG penalty for each driver that goes over his 6 engine limit would make the final quarter of the season more nail-bighting - normally in Fantasy F1 the top teams after the first 1/2 season just carry on winning big)

Another couple of ideas to throw out there:

Bonus point(s)for car/engine that has the top speed trap recording.
Bonus point(s)for the 10/10ths driver of the day.
Bonus point(s) for new lap record - where it is not a new track, obviously.

For the 3rd driver - how about limiting my original suggestion to announced test/reserve drivers & giving them knock down prices?

Oh & I have always liked the idea of each fantasy team having a "joker" race (declared along with their entry) where they score double.

One thing I didn't like in the past was losing points for a DNF against a driver when it was the car's fault (or indeed vice, versa) - I would either not have minus points, or take the F1.com official reason for retirement & dock points from driver/car according to what the reason was.

[jab]

OK

- Engines are in, 2nd cars out. Engine failures will be defined either by official records or by my own decision if it's contentious - an engine failure for an engine will be worth more than a normal retirement for a constructor. If the engine supplier goes over the engine number limit, there will be penalties applied. Best 3 scores will count for the engines

- I'll leave reserve drivers out for now but it's something we can work on for next year

- Joker races is a bit too pot luck, I think

- Drivers don't lose points through DNFs, anyway. They just get nothing. Only constructor (and now engine) points are deducted for DNFs

[jab]

OK, here's a short sample of the rulebook (the actual rules post will be bigger):

Entries
The idea is you have to pick 2 drivers and a constructor within a budget of 100,000 (insert currency here). You don’t get any points for not spending under the budget. None of these can be from the same team - you can’t pick 2 drivers from the same team or a driver and the constructor of the same team.

However, there is a major change for this year. As you all know, the entry list has expanded from 10 teams to 13 (theoretically) for this season, so I’m taking the opportunity to expand the constructors section. You now have to pick an engine as well as a chassis for your team. This cannot be the same engine as in the chassis already, although the drivers don’t matter in this case

The top 3 engine scores (excluding the points given out for engine failures) count. There will be a 5 point penalty for every engine failure in a race, and a further 10 point penalty if the engine limit is exceeded for a driver (i.e. they get grid penalties for changing engines)

To allow for this change, the constructor prices have been reduced (put it down to the global financial crisis or something)

Please use the following entry form to post entries:

Team name:
Constructor:
Engine:
Driver 1:
Driver 2:

Please include the prices as well

Scoring System
This is something I will also change as I have an unhealthy fascination with points systems. To bring FF1 inline with the recent changes in F1 and FF1 itself, I’m going to alter the system, with more points on offer, a different structure, and the addition of points for pole, fastest lap and laps led for drivers. Engines have their own system as well. Quite complex now but then you don’t have to do all the work

Drivers:
Win: 25 pts
2nd: 18
3rd: 15
High points finish (4th-6th): 10
Low points finish (7th-10th): 5
Non-scoring finish: 3
DNF: 0

Driver Bonuses:
Pole: 3
Fastest Lap: 3
Lead a Lap: 1
Most Laps Lead: 3
Points per positions gained/lost from grid slot: 2

Constructors:
Win: 10 pts
2nd: 8
3rd: 6
High points finish (4th-6th): 4
Low points finish (7th-10th): 2
Non-scoring finish: 1
Technical DNF: -3

Constructor Bonuses:
Pole: 3
Fastest Lap: 3

Engines:
Win: 5 pts
2nd: 4
3rd: 3
Points finish (4th-10th): 2
Non-scoring finish: 1
Engine failure: -5

Engine Bonuses
Pole: 1
Fastest Lap: 1

FAQs

I didn’t enter before the start of the season. Does this mean I now can’t take part?
You can enter whenever you like through the season. Just don’t expect points for the rounds you entered after. The deadline for each round is the start of Free Practice 1

Can I make any substitutions during the season?
You can make one free driver substitution during the season. You can make more than one change but it will cost you 15 points for every change after the first one. You cannot change constructors or engines

What happens if my driver is injured/killed/unable to participate in races due to legal reasons?
Automatically, you will receive points from that drivers’ replacement in his team, unless you request for a substitution. So, using an example from last year, if you picked Massa and he was injured and you don’t fancy the idea of Badoer or Fisichella picking up points for you instead, you would have to make a substitution. I believe this is a slight change from last year, as I believe in the past you would’ve continued to score no points until you made a change

What happens if a driver is injured/killed/unable to participate in the race due to legal reasons, and one of my drivers moves teams to replace him, thus clashing with the team I chose at the beginning, e.g. if I picked Fisichella and Ferrari last year?
Don’t worry about it

Who is in charge?
I am. That means I decide what happens if things go array, like disqualifications, shortened races, lightning strikes and so on. Even $100m fines and disqualifications from the constructors championship. And no, picking Webber will not gain extra bonus points. And call me James. That is my name
...
Drivers in order of cost:

Lewis Hamilton - 50,000
Michael Schumacher - 50,000
Fernando Alonso - 50,000
Sebastian Vettel - 50,000
Jenson Button - 45,000
Felipe Massa -45,000
Mark Webber - 45,000
Nico Rosberg - 40,000
Rubens Barrichello - 25,000
Robert Kubica - 25,000
Nico Hulkenberg - 20,000
Adrian Sutil - 20,000
Pedro de la Rosa - 20,000
Kamui Kobayashi - 20,000
Vitantonio Liuzzi - 15,000
Sebastien Buemi - 15,000
Vitaly Petrov - 12,000
Jaime Alguersuari - 12,000
Jarno Trulli - 10,000
Timo Glock - 10,000
Heikki Kovalainen - 8,000
Lucas di Grassi - 7,000
Bruno Senna - 5,000
2nd Campos driver - 5,000
Jose Maria Lopez - 5,000
2nd US F1 driver - 5,000

Constructors in order of cost:

Mercedes - 30,000
Red Bull - 30,000
McLaren - 30,000
Ferrari - 30,000
Williams - 20,000
Renault - 15,000
Sauber - 15,000
Force India - 12,000
Toro Rosso - 10,000
Lotus - 6,000
Virgin - 6,000
Campos - 3,000
US F1 - 3,000

Engines in order of cost:

Mercedes - 25,000
Ferrari - 20,000
Renault - 15,000
Cosworth - 10,000

Any issues with this?

[courageous]

RULESWho is in charge? I am.

A healthy dose of megalomania is always required to run this sort of thing
On that note - can I suggest that any "I think driver X should be worth more" type suggestions are not listened to; you will never get an agreement on those details.

One question I can see that needs clarifying - if I pick my Chassis as Mclaren & it DNFs because of an engine blow up, do I lose points?

And just a thought, to avoid pit stoppery giving drivers undue laps led points - how about making it "lead 5 consecutive laps = 1 point" or something along those line.

[courageous]

Originally Posted by jab

And no, picking Webber will not gain extra bonus points.

But what if he ends up driving for Renault?

[Notso Swift]

I would suggest you actually keep it simple and continue what has previously been done for this year, then modify next year... but It looks the goods if you want to change the system.

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Originally Posted by courageous

And just a thought, to avoid pit stoppery giving drivers undue laps led points - how about making it "lead 5 consecutive laps = 1 point" or something along those line.

Your then going to get the ....

He crossed the line in the lead 4 times in succession but then pulled into the pits, with the car in second crossing the timing line before he does as he's first or second garage, and the timing line is half way down the pitlane.
He deserves a point.

I think jab had it right, 3 points for crossing the finish line in the lead most often, and a point for anyone else that through luck or judgement crossed the line in the lead at any other point in the race.

[mattt]

Can i choose the safety car driver?

[jab]

Originally Posted by courageous

One question I can see that needs clarifying - if I pick my Chassis as Mclaren & it DNFs because of an engine blow up, do I lose points?

Yes. It's anything as long as it's not the driver's fault, because the car design is invariably going to have an impact on the engine (yes, I'm talking about you, Adrian Newey)

[Armco Bender]

Lets cut to the chase,do you take bribes?.




Team name: Sheep Botherers
Constructor: Force India - 12,000
Engine:Mercedes - 25,000
Driver 1: Sebastian Vettel - 50,000
Driver 2:Timo Glock - 10,000
(97,000)

[jab]

I'll open the entry thread in a minute

I'm not sure on the constructor-engine combinations, though. I've written in the rules above not to have the realistic combinations (i.e. you can't have a Mercedes chassis and engine, or a Red Bull chassis and a Renault engine), but I think I'll get rid of it as it is too restrictive. I'll leave it out for now

[jab]

As a final addition for this year, would anyone approve of/object to a points bonus for the entrant who scores the most points for winning a race? I was thinking not much, about 3 points

[jab]

As no one has objected, I guess I'm OK to add that in

3 points for the entry that scores the most point during a race

I'm also archiving previous years' results, which will mean I can award a Rookie of the Year Prize, which, funnily enough, I will be up for, and a Veterans Prize for those that have competed in at least 2 previous championships

[jab]

Received a question tonight on the scoring for the engines, due to the nature of the engine suppliers supplying different numbers of cars (Ferrari 6, Renault 4, Mercedes 6 and Cosworth 6-8)

Just to clarify, the scores that count are from the top 3 cars with those engines in, plus deducted points for engine failures during the race

e.g

- If Webber finishes 1st, Vettel 2nd, Kubica 4th and Petrov 15th, only the scores for 1st, 2nd and 4th count

- If Petrov retires due to engine failure, the scores for 1st, 2nd and 4th count but also there is a points deduction for the engine failure

I apologise if anyone's gone for Cosworth thinking it's a bargain when they are supplying more cars than everyone else...

Also given that US F1 is pretty much dead, await further news on the entry list situation. An official entry list is due out tomorrow. I have had a contigency in place as far as prices go for Stefan GP since the beginning just in case they get in, although it looks unlikely. All entries including Campos will automatically be converted to Hispania (or whatever they choose to call the team)

[Notso Swift]

I did but not because I thought I had 8 scorers, more because I thought there is no way I could have 3/5 failures. Especially considering it is more likely that the Cosworth Teams are less likely to finish (the same could be said with anyone other than Renault power, though they have less back markers).
Can't really change my entry, because I have spent my money, so I would need to do multiple changes, and over all I would only go to the Renault, which means a change away from Red Bull, which and I would need to drop 5k on my second driver, and someone may have that combo... which is all too hard!

But to clarify an engine failure during the race is only counted where the official results list "Engine" not where we see that an engine "looks" like it has gone

[jab]

Originally Posted by Notso Swift

But to clarify an engine failure during the race is only counted where the official results list "Engine" not where we see that an engine "looks" like it has gone

Yeah, pretty much

[jab]

Again, another clarification - Chandhok is still worth 5,000, if anyone wants to take a gamble on him

[Splatz the Cow]

Chandhok looking reasonable value now.

[jab]

Rule clarification:

Whilst working out the results (yes, this is actually happening), I've noticed there are a few instances where drivers haven't finished due to a mechanical failure of some kind but are still classified. Mechanical DNFs usually mean -3 points for constructors points. However, if they are classified, there will be no minus constructors points, but if it's an engine failure and they're still classified (see Alonso in Malaysia, or Liuzzi in Spain), that will still mean -5 on the engine points

However, I'm willing to change this if it was different before and people want to keep it that way