[Team] 8 teams with three cars?

[littleman]

Yesterday, the media were saying the FIA are going to open it's doors to new
F1 entrants in 2015/16......................I wonder why!

They must be painfully aware that F1 is on a financial knife edge, with 50% + of the grid in dire straights.I'm even more certain now that 3rd cars or "off the shelf" customer cars are the only way forward. The concept appears to work OK in the DTM.

All the big sponsorship money that used to come from the cigarette companies and out-of-control Banks has long gone.These sponsors literally had $billions to throw around........not anymore.

[JacobP]

^

If customer cars were allowed, I really hope this is done in the way in which the midfield teams are not forced out of chassis manufacturing business by Marussias and Toro Rossos that are racing with a Red Bull chassis. A good compromise would be to allow only low ranked teams to build the customer chassis. Say, for 2014 that could be say Williams and Sauber. This would help Williams and Sauber to raise a little bit of cash, and the new teams would have a real chance to break into Q2 without going bankrupt.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by JacobP

^

If customer cars were allowed, I really hope this is done in the way in which the midfield teams are not forced out of chassis manufacturing business by Marussias and Toro Rossos that are racing with a Red Bull chassis. A good compromise would be to allow only low ranked teams to build the customer chassis. Say, for 2014 that could be say Williams and Sauber. This would help Williams and Sauber to raise a little bit of cash, and the new teams would have a real chance to break into Q2 without going bankrupt.

I don't think that's really practical.
A lower team needs to be able to buy machinery it thinks will do the job, not a car they know will line up with the Q1 eliminated. If it has an association with a Mercedes or Ferrari or McLaren and that's what they are willing to pay for then do it.
The reality is they would (if truly independent) not quite get something as good as the prime team manufacturer because running it will be different but it would be a 'customer' version of the current car and the development across a season these days is significant. Building your own is expensive but maybe a way forward if you reach the point where you think you can do a better job.

What people may be concerned about is a Red Bull selling copies for 10 million a piece but its unlikely that they would carry the same development if independent (not STR) and would therefore be further behind. Buts its only a way forward and if you think you can build a better mousetrap others will still build a car...

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

What people may be concerned about is a Red Bull selling copies for 10 million a piece but its unlikely that they would carry the same development if independent (not STR) and would therefore be further behind. Buts its only a way forward and if you think you can build a better mousetrap others will still build a car...

Porsche used to update their customer cars, believing that the car sold to a customer should be competitive for 3 years.
Clearly the car would not be the equal of a works car, but it could still not be too far behind.

[AngusJ]

Why not 3 teams with 8 cars each. The way things are going it will happen sooner than you think.

[Formulahistory]

The question for me is: Why not 13 teams with two cars?
There must me something done (Budget cap) that more teams could compete in a good way.

[fourWheelDrift]

The title of this thread caught my eye and my first reaction was that while it would cut costs I couldn't quite see how it would work. Then I realised it meant eight teams with three cars each!

[wolfhound]

It seems like Bernie wants the smaller teams to run the third car for the bigger teams.
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/wi...th-a-spare-car

If the small teams have already gone bust they no longer exist?
Is this not against F1's existing rules where a team has to own the IP of their car.
You can be sure the midfield teams will kick up merry hell about it but maybe that's what Bernie wants when really all teams should be able to compete in a financially sustainable model.
I have also noted who wrote the story.
I suspect it might be Bernie fling a kite so that he gets what he really wants.

Or is there mild panic setting in at FOM/CVC as they realise teams are no longer able to survive?

[Paradise City]

What Bernie casually suggests and what actually happens are different things despite persistent rumours of Bernie's goldlike omnipotence.

What will happen I think is that F1 is going to have to suck up the embarrassment of having an 18 car grid for 2015.

No team is going to want to cough up cars for a terminally ill team and any team compelled to do this, by whatever theoretical clause that there is to compel them to do this, is going to be furious.

No team is going to want to shoulder the cost of fielding an impotent third-car prop that can't score points under its own banner either.

F1 is going to have to suck it up and make the best of an 18 car grid next year - and this year. They are going to have to spend next year designing a customer-car regime that doesn't immediately render worthless the design and manufacturing facilities of certain midfield teams. Good luck with that.

Could even see an influx of new manufacturers into the WEC by teams who want to exploit their manufacturing facility whilst running customer cars in F1.

[Pontlieue]

This idea is utterly stupid. If a team is already in administration or close to it, then a customer car isn't going to save it. The teams' infrastructure is all built up to construct their own cars. Sauber, for example, have one of the best facilities in motorsport. Giving new teams the chance to run customer cars for a limited amount of time, maybe three years, could attract new teams to the sport. Giving customer cars to teams that are in theprocess of collapsing won't change anything.

[ECW Dan Selby]

As negative as it sounds, i'm getting to the point where I hope people DO leave F1 to wake Bernie up/overhaul the system a bit.

We need some big, big change in order to keep this sport alive.

It's dying before our very eyes.

Selby

[GT6]

Well we may see some teams disappear but the whole F1 system will survive but the people currently in control will decide what that form it's we might not like it but that is how it is

[wolfhound]

Joe Saward has poured cold water on the latest reports on third cars that were attributed to Bernie by saying that all contracts within F1 are secret and he is not going to say what is in the contract.
However on that basis his latest idea of the small teams running third cars can be assumed to be complete non runners.

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2014/...-go-from-here/

[Nicholosophy]

Originally Posted by ECW Dan Selby

As negative as it sounds, i'm getting to the point where I hope people DO leave F1 to wake Bernie up/overhaul the system a bit.

We need some big, big change in order to keep this sport alive.

It's dying before our very eyes.

Selby

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by Baigu

I'd rather they go with customer cars than 3 car teams. I like the "charm" than small teams bring to F1 & racing in general.

Originally Posted by willb

What if one of the three car teams decides to withdraw from F1? It a new team were to enter in their place wouldn't they be in a more difficult situation it they had to field three cars instead of two?

I agree that having just 8 teams would weaken F1. I think that Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes and Williams should sell customer cars to privateers.

Originally Posted by Pontlieue

If a team is already in administration or close to it, then a customer car isn't going to save it. The teams' infrastructure is all built up to construct their own cars. Sauber, for example, have one of the best facilities in motorsport.

They could switch to DTM or LMP2.

[chunterer]

If 3rd cars are allowed or teams are allowed to sell cars to others teams then I believe the best way forward would be to tweak the 'agreement' so that the 3rd car competes in its own mini series or cup (Junior Cup?) where they can not interfere with the established main entrants.

Therefore these extra entries would not take points (and therefore income) away from some likely less competitive main entry 2 car teams who toil away trying to keep the dna of the sport alive.

Sound fair?

[Tucky]

If the top teams are forced to enter a third car this year (however unlikely that is of happening), surely it would be unfair on the smaller teams who still have to compete with 2 car teams? For example Williams and Force India are battling two teams who would have to supply third cars if they're needed, but that would mean another car with the chance of outscoring Williams and Force India.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Pontlieue

This idea is utterly stupid. If a team is already in administration or close to it, then a customer car isn't going to save it. The teams' infrastructure is all built up to construct their own cars. Sauber, for example, have one of the best facilities in motorsport. Giving new teams the chance to run customer cars for a limited amount of time, maybe three years, could attract new teams to the sport. Giving customer cars to teams that are in theprocess of collapsing won't change anything.

It would fill up the grid and stop the CVC empire and B1 (Bernie F1) from collapsing....

[Nicholosophy]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

It would fill up the grid and stop the CVC empire and B1 (Bernie F1) from collapsing....

They already have the cars. They can't afford to run them. They can't afford the spare parts. They can't afford to transport the gear to North and South America. Maybe if this was the start of the year and they hadn't spent money on car design, crash testing, building the car, etc, etc.

The top teams would have to give them cars, parts, money for freight, team members, etc. May as well just run a 3rd car (as much as I don't want that).

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Nicholosophy

They already have the cars. They can't afford to run them. They can't afford the spare parts. They can't afford to transport the gear to North and South America. Maybe if this was the start of the year and they hadn't spent money on car design, crash testing, building the car, etc, etc.

The top teams would have to give them cars, parts, money for freight, team members, etc. May as well just run a 3rd car (as much as I don't want that).

Exactly. The small teams have failed because the model is commercially non viable not because they didn't have cars to run.

[Chaynes321]

Originally Posted by Tucky

If the top teams are forced to enter a third car this year (however unlikely that is of happening), surely it would be unfair on the smaller teams who still have to compete with 2 car teams? For example Williams and Force India are battling two teams who would have to supply third cars if they're needed, but that would mean another car with the chance of outscoring Williams and Force India.

Surely if there are 3 cars team thane all teams would run 3 cars not only some that would be crazily unfair ...

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Chaynes321

Surely if there are 3 cars team thane all teams would run 3 cars not only some that would be crazily unfair ...

I'm not so sure about that. My understanding was that if the grid dropped below a certain number 'specific teams' would need to field three cars, not everybody. I don't know what those teams are, nor whether all three cars could score points.

[Casper]

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/motorspo...31-11fbef.html

Bernie telling it how it is, OR winding up the propaganda machine.

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by Casper

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/motorspo...31-11fbef.html

Bernie telling it how it is, OR winding up the propaganda machine.

Well if he had brought in a more balanced payments system when negociating new terms with the teams a few years ago I doubt we would be loosing 2 teams at the moment.

Bernie is just trying to deflect the blame elsewhere. In situation where some teams get more money for turning up from Bernie than the total budget of a midfield or possibly 2 back of the grid teams.

[Paradise City]

He added that he was more concerned at the current V6 turbo engines and said they should be removed in another overhaul of the rules.

"We need to change the regulations," he said. "Get rid of these engines because they don't do anything for anyone. They are not Formula One."

So as to impose another intensive cost to the teams. That's what he is 'more concerned about'.

He's playing shock politics. Stagger people so as to give himself room to rule. I just hope that's it and he's not being serious.