Fernando Alonso: McLaren target Ferrari driver for next season

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

Well, McLaren are saying it's Prodromou.

What utter rubbish. McLaren have signed God, afterall he isn't at Suzuka.

Are we going to have an attempt at intelligent discussion or not bother. I'm easy, but it would be useful to know.

[Lancsbreaker]

Originally Posted by Adam43

What utter rubbish. McLaren have signed God, afterall he isn't at Suzuka.

Are we going to have an attempt at intelligent discussion or not bother. I'm easy, but it would be useful to know.

I don't understand where you are coming from with these comments - although I assume heavy sarcasm? I've no idea what the truth is of the matter - but very little of the above is discussion, intelligent or otherwise.....its just bland assertion based on little apparent evidence, as far as I can see. If McLaren have made a statement, presumably its published somewhere - or someone can quote a reliable source....else, we're just speculating.

[broadrun96]

Exactly, I'm hoping it is sarcasm or this thread should be closed as that is NOT the topic in the title. Open another thread to rant about Newey moving as this one is about Alonso.

[Knowlesy]

Alonso looks like he is going to McLaren as he hasn't turned up for the Japanese GP.

[321Go]

Originally Posted by wnut

Who are you talking about?

Peter Prodromou?

Looks like you were correct wnut. Well done.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by 321Go

Looks like you were correct wnut. Well done.

Only one I could think of if I eliminated Newey as a possibility, and you had said head of aerodynamics, which left Prodomou as the likely suspect.

Still more a lucky guess than anything else.

Prodomou would be a pretty good get for McLaren though!

[chunterer]

Button has reportedly only signed a 1 year extension to his contract to the end of 2014, but I thought Perez was on a 2 or 3 year deal?

If Perez is re-signed, as I think is still likely (despite Mark Hughes and the GrandPrix.com main news guy keeping on about him being removed) then surely logic suggests that if Alonso comes to McLaren it will be in place of Button.

The other scenario would surely be if Checo was only on a 1 year deal, and gets a 1 year extension, it will be in place of whichever of the 2 comes off worst next year.

[Mr V]

Jenson has already signed for next year but Checo hasn't signed anything for next year yet is how I understood it.

[Knowlesy]

Thing is chuntz, who in their right mind would release Button to keep Perez?

Not that it will happen.

[Aysedasi]

Who is their right mind would want to go to McLaren right now.......?

[Knowlesy]

Well, there are worse options. McLaren have guaranteed factory backing for years to come at least. They are not yet Williams.

But yeah, not as attractive as days of yore. But then neither is Claudia Schiffer and I'd still join her team.

[Aysedasi]

Is there a 'seat' available then?

[Knowlesy]

Trying to work out an amicable split with the current incumbent, will keep you posted. Trouble is he brings a lot of money, but I bring talent.

[Aysedasi]

Talent: Natural endowment or ability of a superior quality.

Ah, I see, Claudia's after your endowment, is she?

[Knowlesy]

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Thing is chuntz, who in their right mind would release Button to keep Perez?

Not that it will happen.

Well i'm not very convinced McLaren are keen on good old DJ Jense either (he's had his day, well ok, his one year) but someone has to pay for their total ineptitude this year so it might as well be one of their drivers.

In fact this is where the focus should be, how on earth can McLaren get it so spectacularly wrong with that budget and set up, not on the drivers regardless of what seems to be far more cons than pros accompanying the current line-up.

That team is in total panic stations at the moment judging by all the rumours and rumblings!

[Marbot]

They went too radical on car design. It's turned out to be a dead-end project. Hopefully this means that they have started work early on their 2014 chassis.

Button was also no worse, nor better, than Hamilton, over their three year period together. Certainly, Perez is being made to look second rate, and in a car that is nowhere near the perfect car that Button needs to drive effectively.

Perez is the one who is driving for his career, right now.

[Knowlesy]

McLaren will be back, you can bet on it. They flop back and forth each year.

The trouble is the consistency. 2007 & 2008 they managed to make great cars back to back, but even then they fell back a bit in 2008 and were saved by the Ferrari horror show to an extent. Other than that it is good car, to bad car, to good again.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

McLaren will be back, you can bet on it. They flop back and forth each year.

The trouble is the consistency. 2007 & 2008 they managed to make great cars back to back, but even then they fell back a bit in 2008 and were saved by the Ferrari horror show to an extent. Other than that it is good car, to bad car, to good again.

Do the still adopt their different designer for a different year policy ? Maybe time to just go with the guy who designs the car on the good years !

[Born Racer]

I see McLaren as an underachieving team. Perhaps it's not fair because they still achieve a lot (a reliable Grand Prix winner since 1997) and those last few tenths are always the most difficult ones to find. Nonetheless, any organisation has to be extremely well-oiled if they are be run well by committee and I see McLaren a bit like a committee team, in the way that Toyota were criticised for. Otherwise they need to just let a few leaders lead. I don't know their structure, but I've been led to believe this is the way they do things and the right change in that regard could be just the ticket they need for championship success.

Look at the autonomy Newey is given at Red Bull. That seems to have bore golden fruit.

[Knowlesy]

It was that lack of autonomy that led Newey to leave.

Why would you sign the greatest car designer of his generation and then restrict him? Grrr!

Mr V. I am not sure, but it certainly looks like they still do it that way.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

I see McLaren as an underachieving team. Perhaps it's not fair because they still achieve a lot (a reliable Grand Prix winner since 1997) and those last few tenths are always the most difficult ones to find. Nonetheless, any organisation has to be extremely well-oiled if they are be run well by committee and I see McLaren a bit like a committee team, in the way that Toyota were criticised for. Otherwise they need to just let a few leaders lead. I don't know their structure, but I've been led to believe this is the way they do things and the right change in that regard could be just the ticket they need for championship success.

Look at the autonomy Newey is given at Red Bull. That seems to have bore golden fruit.

I think you are right on the money here!
Committees just never work, a designer trying to respond to every edict and whim justifying every decision he makes, just becomes exhausting and self defeating.

As they say a camel is a horse designed by committee, and it appears this years Macca is about as competitive as a camel would be in a group 1 race!

Employ great people and hamstring them with the machinations of gnomes, brilliant just brilliant!

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

I see McLaren as an underachieving team. Perhaps it's not fair because they still achieve a lot (a reliable Grand Prix winner since 1997) and those last few tenths are always the most difficult ones to find. Nonetheless, any organisation has to be extremely well-oiled if they are be run well by committee and I see McLaren a bit like a committee team, in the way that Toyota were criticised for. Otherwise they need to just let a few leaders lead. I don't know their structure, but I've been led to believe this is the way they do things and the right change in that regard could be just the ticket they need for championship success.

Look at the autonomy Newey is given at Red Bull. That seems to have bore golden fruit.

They've only really had 6 years of not contending for wins in about 30-32 years - excluding this latest phase.

[bella]

Originally Posted by wnut

I think you are right on the money here!
Committees just never work, a designer trying to respond to every edict and whim justifying every decision he makes, just becomes exhausting and self defeating.

As they say a camel is a horse designed by committee, and it appears this years Macca is about as competitive as a camel would be in a group 1 race!

Employ great people and hamstring them with the machinations of gnomes, brilliant just brilliant!

to be entirely fair, i think it worked absolutely fine when ron dennis was the team god. the team setup mirrored his attitude to things, and when you have an absolutely meticulous approach to everything that runs all the way from the top right through to the bottom of the organisation in every single task and procedure then it works perfectly. it expands according to those requirements, and new workers are assimilated accordingly.

the problem, imo, has come with a change of leadership, and as brilliant as martin whitmarsh is, he's a completely different type of team god and manages things in a different way. now you have a mixed message, between the historical approach of the team and the new leader (who id distinctly more human), perhaps slightly different new recruits. even if it's just something like debriefs and problem solving being handled slightly differently it can have an effect.

[chillibowl]

while i watched F1 in the 90 and early 2000's it was pre internet and i didnt get much F1 news so my recollection is limited.

my memory of the early 2000's at Mclaren, the multiple development cycles, and design by committee seemed like it was all made necessary by the failure the MP4-18 which never raced, the MP4-17 being reworked for the start of the 2003? season followed by similar problems with the MP4-19.

as i said though i dont know who takes ownership of those failures but i do seem to remember that after all of that Newey was forced out and or was looking for another team (challenge). was he just made the scapegoat or are Mclaren's problems really institutional in nature?