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Old 1 Oct 2006, 23:36 (Ref:1724785)   #1
krusty1
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If you want to race do it on the track!!!!!!!!

Ok I know that this probably belongs somewhere else but too bad....

I love racing like any other person, I love my car and the fact that if I needed to it can go fast. But seriously we need to get some of these ***** on the road to start thinking about their actions. I am a CFA volunteer as well as a very enthusiastic race fan. My message is IF YOU WANT TO GO FAST YOU BLOODY FOOL DO IT ON A TRACK WHEN YOU ARE UNDER CONTROLED CONDITIONS AND ARE NOT GOING TO KILL YOURSELF, YOUR PASSENGER OR INNOCENT BYSTANDERS!!!! I am sick of attending call outs where I turn up and it is a Clubsport wrapped around a pole, or a GT in a ditch.

By no means am I attacking the sport and by no means am I saying that it the responsibility of ANYONE but the person behind the wheel.

Please be safe you are not Craig Lowndes or Mark Scaife when you are driving on surburban roads!!!

Sorry for the rant, just getting really frustrated.

Last edited by Bluebottle; 5 Oct 2006 at 07:56.
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Old 1 Oct 2006, 23:42 (Ref:1724786)   #2
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Couldn't agree more
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Old 2 Oct 2006, 00:02 (Ref:1724794)   #3
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It's a shame that advanced and defensive driver training isn't compulsory: even the brashness and indestructability of youth would be tampered by an effective demonstration of exactly how quickly a situation can go from in to out of control. Most young lairs only discover it through hard eperience - and generally just in time to realise just how much strife they're in...

I would've thought that if one positive thing might come from the death of Peter Brock, it would be that roadside furniture is nowhere near as forgiving as a sandtrap and detroit concrete... add to that the randomness of oncoming traffic (and that any other traffic around you may not be completely aware of themselves and their situation, let alone yours), and what it adds up to is that there isn't any place for boy-racer mentality on public roads.
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Old 2 Oct 2006, 00:33 (Ref:1724803)   #4
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Absolutely right. I saw a bloke on a motorbike that got thrown off his bike because some idiot was trying to break the land speed record in a Monaro. It
s just unacceptable, and we need to have some harsher penalties put in place.
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Old 2 Oct 2006, 00:35 (Ref:1724805)   #5
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The problem is the TAC ads just don't work anymore and unfortunately most of these guys only learn their lesson when they are in an accident and injure or kill themselves or someone else. where is the answer?

If only cars were fitted with a stupidity limiter. Gee the roads would be quiet!!!
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Old 2 Oct 2006, 00:44 (Ref:1724809)   #6
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If only cars were fitted with a stupidity limiter. Gee the roads would be quiet!!!
They are. Its called a brain.

Anybody can drive a car quickly, getting the thing to stop is a different issue. An its never the going too quickly that is the problem, its the things the driver collects when they stop... (and they do ultimately stop.. somehow)
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Old 2 Oct 2006, 00:57 (Ref:1724813)   #7
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[QUOTE=GTRMagic]They are. Its called a brain. [QUOTE]


Unfortunately some must have theirs switched off!!
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Old 2 Oct 2006, 01:03 (Ref:1724817)   #8
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There are speed days at both Eastern Creek and Wakefield Park scheduled regularly through the year

What better way to show off your 'speed' than bring your mates along as you take your pride and joy for a burn round a race track... or at WSID for a run-what-ya-brung drag......
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Old 2 Oct 2006, 01:08 (Ref:1724821)   #9
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For me awareness is a bigger factor in a crash than speed is.

A track day is also less expensive than what a fine and suspended sentance would cost aswell.

Personally I have never seen the point in speeding. And you always end up laughing when a driver flies straight past you, only to end up at the next set of lights.
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Old 2 Oct 2006, 01:15 (Ref:1724822)   #10
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Western Sydney International Dragway opens its doors EVERY WEDNESDAY- Not once a month, not every few months, but every Wednesday of every week. For $45 you can bring your car in and you have four hours of racing to burn some rubber in controlled, and well monitored conditions, so if you do have a crash you won't have to wait for a passer-by to call the Ambulance- There will be one waiting for you.

I don't see why people in NSW want to knock this back! It just seems like plain idiocy to me!

Just expanding for you GTR.

Post 1,500!
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Old 2 Oct 2006, 01:25 (Ref:1724825)   #11
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Good Thread to start. Especially around Bathurst when we are all at our BBQ'S, the track etc.. How many times have we seen ppl leaving the track or a BBQ after Bathurst doing something silly, burn outs etc... Guys we need to be more careful this year!!

Also I believe we teach our kids how to pass a licence test and not how to drive, 1 year after getting my P's my Dad sent me off to do a Driver Education course with Murcotts. This should be Compulsary for every one who gets a licence. We should also be teaching our future generation (and older folks) Emergency breaking, Slide control, Safe Highway driving also basic maintenance of cars, you would be surprised at how many people do not know how to change a tyre, check their oil and water safely etc....

If the Government were serious about reducing road toll they would take a long hard look at these programs and make them compulsary.
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Old 2 Oct 2006, 01:38 (Ref:1724830)   #12
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Originally Posted by pink_bits
If the Government were serious about reducing road toll they would take a long hard look at these programs and make them compulsary.
I agree, problem that we see is the "it couldn't happen to me" mentality. Not that I believe that the vast majority of people could handle it but the best way to educate someone is to scare the living.... out of them. Pictures don't do it. Being in the CFA and attending accients like this has definately made me take my foot off. Not that it was too hard on to start with. I like my life and my sexy XR too much!!!

Get them into a controled situation (as controlled as you can get when it comes to a car) where they have assistance on hand and make them loose control. Show them how easy it is to get all out of shape and what the consequences are!
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Old 2 Oct 2006, 02:24 (Ref:1724840)   #13
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If the Government were serious about reducing road toll they would take a long hard look at these programs and make them compulsary.
Unfortunately governments only appear to be serious about these problems for as long as the latest fatal crash is making the news.
About 18 months ago, just around the corner from where I live, a teenager took his father's GTR for a joy ride while his father was overseas. He proceeded to wrap it around a power pole at over 200kph (in a 50kph zone), killing himself, his girlfriend and another mate.
It was front page news for a week or so. The public was outraged, the government was outraged and promised all sorts of committees and enquiries to stop it happening again. With the public suitably appeased, the story drops out of the papers and all the fancy promises are dropped and forgotten until the next horror smash. Then it starts again.
In these situations governments in general are great at saying what you want to hear, but are useless when it comes to doing what you want them to do!

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Old 2 Oct 2006, 02:31 (Ref:1724843)   #14
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I think the Worst ever Thread pic is a little harsh!
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Old 2 Oct 2006, 02:57 (Ref:1724852)   #15
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I have been in the car of several hot headed young drivers who seem to believe that when they have passengers they must impress. Do they drive like that when they are by themselves though? Some of course do, as they really make an effort to out-do the other young driver in conversation. "I did 180kmph" "Yeh well I did 220kmph on the freeway" and then you have the real stupid cases where they even boast about losing their Learners due to joy riding.

Can you really change a drivers attitude when they do a 60kmph activity at 70-80kmph at a driver training course. Afterall they have just knocked down half the cones in the slalom, overshot the emergency breaking cones and gone at least 25m further with their wheels locked. Then they get out of their cars with a smile on their face, and later talk about it to their mates around them.

Another interesting factor is that some drivers with even 20 years experience are yet to experience an emergency stop, or what ABS feels like. I have also been in the car when someone has locked up their tyres and just released the brake pedal as they didn't know what to do. But thats ok, they are a good driver as they passed the test to get their P's. Afterall thats all that is important isn't it?

But the funniest thing of all is to listen to all the different opinions on what you should do when you lock your tyres. Im not talking about how the professionals explain the situation, just everyday young drivers. Out of about 5 people you will get 3 different opinions. Pump the pedal. Completely lift off then re-apply but not as hard as before. Or ease the pedal back to the threshold braking point. And some will say "I dont know".

They have all passed their liscence, yet they all have a different opinion on how to correct a simple situation. Whose to blame? Parents? Ads? Driver Instructors?

You arn't graded on an emergency stop in your liscense test so they don't teach you it. Yet a driver training course does teach you this. Surely it would make sense that a life saving technique needs to be taught as soon as possible. Then would we get three different opinions on how to correct the locked brakes situation?

What about attitude. How many of us can honestly, honestly say they slow down to the 60kmph recommended in a road works area, when before the speed limit was 80kmph. I doubt very many can. Why though? Dis-respect for the law? Are you in so much of a hurray that 20kmph difference for a few hundred metres will make you late? Peer group pressure?

Howcome the average driver will speed in zones from 40-80kmph yet won't speed on the freeway or country roads. Speaking from experience on the nice drive to Winton Raceway from the Yarra Valley I must say that you will get stuck behind someone in the 100 zone, but then when it comes to a town and the speed limit is 60kmph, they are all of a sudden speeding. Why?

But what I would really like to ask. Is that are our road rules enforced enough for us to respect them? Are we taught all the right things during our time on L plates. And are we tested on all the right things when getting P plates?

Or are we all just in too much of a hurry to worry about stop signs, and road works.

And maybe its just too simple to say that drivers have an attitude problem that ads and road rules or punishments wont fix.
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Old 2 Oct 2006, 03:10 (Ref:1724856)   #16
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This might not be the right place for this thread, but I think it brings up some great points.

I'm by no means a hugely experienced driver, but I've been on the roads since 1999. 7 Years of freeway driving and NSW Country roads (the golden highway, putty road and bells line are a must if you want to learn respect for a piece of bitumen) and watching accidents happen mere metres from me have given me a fair eye opener.

MY dad put me through a driving course at Oran Park... I think it was with Luffy's dad? (too long ago to remember). That, coupled with my dad and grandfather beating me with a stick at any chance has definitely given me the tools to be able to drive "better" (I'm not going to label myself a good driver... because I'm sure most of you on here are much better....)

I'm about to finish a degree in teaching, and will soon be a secondary teacher. I've seen plenty of statistics to prove that the Driver Ed in the US that is compulsary in some states is effective in comparison to other states. That with my positive experience ar Oran leads me to agree with what some of you guys have said.

Liberal right wingers will cry that it would cost too much. OK, let's weigh that against continual insurance hikes due to young drivers having bigger accidents? I'm 23, have never been in a prang (touch wood) and yet I have to pay higher costs for some moron in a clubby who's been in 5 or 6? Would this training be worth the potential saving of life that could result from these drivers averting accidents? (I think so...)

Maybe it's just an evil conspiracy theory. Morris Iemma and co don't want to do it because they get too much from speeding and neg driving fines?
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Old 2 Oct 2006, 03:24 (Ref:1724858)   #17
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i couldnt agre more with you krusty1 i havnt got my licence yet but being a car enthusiest i want a fast car and wil definatly use it on a track under controlled conditions after hearing stories of bad crashes and seeing the after marth of a couple on the roads that i later read in the paper or seen on the news that the cars involved were racing and i just think to myself how would my mum,dad and loved ones feel being told by the police that i had died in a car acciden and that i was racing doing 180 in a 60 zone or something like that.
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Old 2 Oct 2006, 03:34 (Ref:1724863)   #18
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You guys have got me going now -

* In Canada, they allow people as young as 15 to begin learning, in a vehicle 1300CC or under. People under 20 also have a CC limit. There are less insurance hassle in Canada due to less incidents.

* In Nevada it's illegal for drivers who have driven for 3 years or less to have a car stereo.

* US statistics have proven that variable speed limits for various driver abilities actually CAUSE MORE accidents on freeway situations...

Sooo, there some food for thought... Maybe we don't have a 90-100 speed limit, but rather insist that our P-Platers only drive 1600CC cars that would stuggle to get past 140k's and will arguably stop with ease due to the weight, and no car stereo systems (or limit them to 2 x 50 wat speakers?).

That of course is just a re-active measure. The buck definitely stops with defensive driver training.
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Old 2 Oct 2006, 04:08 (Ref:1724873)   #19
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I think the Worst ever Thread pic is a little harsh!
I used the "Worst" in reference to government attitude, not the thread.
I think the thread is very relevent.
I probably could have used a better emoticon.
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Old 2 Oct 2006, 04:21 (Ref:1724875)   #20
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In these situations governments in general are great at saying what you want to hear, but are useless when it comes to doing what you want them to do!

Did it ever cross your mind that it i the responsibility of the idiot in the car who thinks he is invincable.

Worst thread ever huh. Come and have an average night with me and see what we see as volunteers and you might have a little appreciation for what I am on about. I saw one on the weekend where the road was brand new, not a ripple in it, built up area, I drive that road daily but the fool behind the wheel decided that 100+kph in a 50zone was a good idea. Lets just hope that he lives to actually learn the lesson. Not to mention his passenger.

I also think that our roads are enforced very well but unfortunately the burocrats and do gooders and judges are not handing down sentences that are harsh enough. $135 fine or speeding. Not enough when the consequence could have been someones life!!
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Old 2 Oct 2006, 04:22 (Ref:1724877)   #21
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Not sure where I read them, but a few years ago I saw some statistics that showed young drivers who had attended advanced driving course’s statistically had a higher chance of having serious accidents than similar aged/experienced driver’s who hadn’t. I think the reasoning behind it was that once many drivers who have done an advanced driving course, they believe they can drive faster than they did previously and therefore do so. I’m not sure if these statistics were a valid comparison but it’s yet another dimension to this complex problem.
I don’t think there’s one solution, and while I believe, part of the solution is to limit the cars power to weight ratio for the first few years for new drivers. I don’t believe any state in Aus has effectively done this. Some states have laws about this that are very flawed and really a half hearted approach.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senna05
Sooo, there some food for thought... Maybe we don't have a 90-100 speed limit, but rather insist that our P-Platers only drive 1600CC cars that would stuggle to get past 140k's and will arguably stop with ease due to the weight, and no car stereo systems (or limit them to 2 x 50 wat speakers?).
I don’t believe limiting the engine capacity alone is the answer as almost all new cars of 1600cc or even less are capable of far more than 140km/h. It also doesn’t take a high-powered car or high speed to wipe yourself out.

I think in many cases is the drivers attitude is what’s at fault.
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Old 2 Oct 2006, 04:24 (Ref:1724879)   #22
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I think in many cases is the drivers attitude is what’s at fault.
I agree completely!!!
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Old 2 Oct 2006, 04:24 (Ref:1724880)   #23
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I don't know if this idea has been tossed about already in the public spotlight, but couldn't we implement a speed limiter tool that alerts the cops if a young driver (or any driver for that matter) is over the speed limit for a long period of time? I know a lot of people go 120 on a 110 highway, which, as long as you are aware of your surroundings is fine, but if we can monitor the speeds of the young drivers car, and perhaps even implement a kill switch that activates when the speed limit is broken, wouldn't that be a big help? I am aware that instruments like these can easily be de-activated, but surely it could alert the cops if it is?
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Old 2 Oct 2006, 04:25 (Ref:1724881)   #24
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I have full appreciation for what you are on about and agree with you.
My using the Worst Thread emoticon was a mistake.
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Old 2 Oct 2006, 04:42 (Ref:1724893)   #25
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I don't know if this idea has been tossed about already in the public spotlight, but couldn't we implement a speed limiter tool that alerts the cops if a young driver (or any driver for that matter) is over the speed limit for a long period of time? I know a lot of people go 120 on a 110 highway, which, as long as you are aware of your surroundings is fine, but if we can monitor the speeds of the young drivers car, and perhaps even implement a kill switch that activates when the speed limit is broken, wouldn't that be a big help? I am aware that instruments like these can easily be de-activated, but surely it could alert the cops if it is?
Why not just make car manufactors build their cars with cut-offs at 120 instead of 180 for some. That would make a whole lot more sense. But im not sure if the marketing world would agree with that.

Id like to hear your reasonings as to why speeding on a freeway is fine. Who cares about the law, I know this road like the back of my hand so 120 is fine...... Yep.
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