[Driver] Vettel vs Webber: Round 2

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by fourWheelDrift

Both I think, the immediate cause was a part that transfers torque from the brake disk to the wheel but it is thought it failed because the wheel wasn't attached correctly.

The following statement from Brembo seems to suggest that there was no problem on that score.

With regard to the retirement of the Red Bull Racing's driver Sebastian Vettel during the Grand Prix of Australia, Brembo communicates that the cause of his exit in Turn 13 was not caused by the braking system supplied by Brembo, as some publications have reported."

"Red Bull Racing has confirmed that Sebastian Vettel retired from the Australian Grand Prix after the torque drive between the front left axle and wheel was lost.

"Post-race investigations revealed the wheel nut was correctly tightened at the pitstop as well as other possible causes of the fault.

"The team has communicated that it's studying a number of solutions at present, which can be implemented for the Malaysian Grand Prix."

Source: Autosport.com

[Knowlesy]

Not really. I don't think Hamilton has enjoyed a car advantage such as Vettel has had for large parts of 2009 and this season.

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by strider

Two very good questions that I shall have to think about before I reply. I may even have to resort to a PM.

I've always felt the complete driver would be one without weakness. A driver who was fast when he needed to be fast but never faster than required and who had no significant chinks in his armour.

Originally Posted by strider

Just to be clear, I don't think Vettel is quite there yet, but he is ahead of Hamilton despite being younger which must be a worry for Lewis fans.

I don't think that's the case myself, not yet anyway.

[strider]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

I've always felt the complete driver would be one without weakness. A driver who was fast when he needed to be fast but never faster than required and who had no significant chinks in his armour.

You pretty much described Fangio there.

But doesn't it include his off track behaviour as well? For example this comment from Joe Saward about Jenson Button at Grand Prix Ball in Melbourne:

The star of the evening was Jenson Button and, as one of the people on the table said: “Not only did he turn up, but he actually sounded like he was enjoying it.” It as a classic example of how to engage with an audience. I am sure that Jenson had plenty of things that he would rather have been doing, but he is a model World Champion and did the necessary with grace and style, which is not something that one can say about a number of his predecessors.

I know that excludes Kimi, but I accept that. If Jenson were to pull off back-to-back titles with different teams it would be a remarkable feat.

[Taprobane]

Agreed, the fewer weaknesses the more complete a driver is. All drivers have a weakness compared to their rivals of some sort, it's just a case of who has the least and least damaging weaknesses. Hamilton for example doesn't strike me as a man who thinks about a race in the way someone like Button does, but on the other hand he is devastatingly quick and brilliant at overtaking. Vettel does seem to break cars quite a lot, he also seems to be quite hard on his tyres. However to counter balance this he is also incredibly quick, very very cool under pressure (an area where I think Lewis can be weak) and seems to be loved by his team (an under-rated attribute as far as I am concerned.)

Alonso is often mentioned as being the 'most complete' driver on the grid at the moment and I would tend to agree, with his weaknesses being manageable (such as his team situation, similar to Schui he works best in a team which is built around him) and perhaps (and this may be a little controversial) a tiny bit less one lap pace than Vettel and Hamilton who I believe to be the fastest drivers in F1 at the moment.

So all in all I haven't answered the question at all, however I think Vettel and Hamilton could well turn out to be one of the great F1 rivalries. Both immensely talented and very young it's going to be interesting! Personally I'm a Vettel fan, I think he is incredibly likeable and level headed as well as his obvious talent so perhaps I'm a little biased there.

I have no idea if I have just made any sense but oh well, I hope so!

[strider]

Originally Posted by Taprobane

So all in all I haven't answered the question at all, however I think Vettel and Hamilton could well turn out to be one of the great F1 rivalries. Both immensely talented and very young it's going to be interesting! Personally I'm a Vettel fan, I think he is incredibly likeable and level headed as well as his obvious talent so perhaps I'm a little biased there.

Agreed in both respects. Vettel is much better than Hamilton at integrating with the team, so is Jenson who actually thanks his mechanics at the end of each day.

[Kempi]

Vettel does seem to break cars quite a lot

I should have bet on this allegation coming up in the discussion. It seems to spring up as regularly as the idea that with steel brakes brake distances would get longer.

Both theories have been denied by numerous teams (car braker) and by factual evidence (Zanardi's steel brakes in the 98 season). The car braker theory was most evident with Montoya at Williams, yet any team who had an alleged car breaker in their team always said that with modern cars it is, short of crashing the car, not possible for the drivers to "be hard on the car". Yet, anytime someone is fast, but has more technical failures than his teammate is alleged to be a car breaker.

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by Kempi

I should have bet on this allegation coming up in the discussion. It seems to spring up as regularly as the idea that with steel brakes brake distances would get longer.

Both theories have been denied by numerous teams (car braker) and by factual evidence (Zanardi's steel brakes in the 98 season). The car braker theory was most evident with Montoya at Williams, yet any team who had an alleged car breaker in their team always said that with modern cars it is, short of crashing the car, not possible for the drivers to "be hard on the car". Yet, anytime someone is fast, but has more technical failures than his teammate is alleged to be a car breaker.

I agree that the term car-breaker probably shouldn't apply anymore. People said it of Kimi Raikkonen during his McLaren years but at Ferrari he enjoyed good reliability.

Some cars are just more fragile than others when driven on the limit.

[cmotd]

Originally Posted by OZ_HCR32

Do we have to do this again? More interested in looking at the Mercedes, Mclaren and Ferrari boys

lol, is someone holding a gun to your head and making you post in this thread?

I'm a Webber fan, through and through, but I also acknowledge that Vettel is much younger and youth is everything in a sport where reflexes are so important. Experience isn't that important in F1 now, with such good simulators and cars that are so easy to drive (the top ones anyway) If Webz had a car this good when he started out, as Vettel has, I'm sure he would have made just as good use of it.

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Not really. I don't think Hamilton has enjoyed a car advantage such as Vettel has had for large parts of 2009 and this season.

Laughable.

[OZ_HCR32]

Nope...lol, i love Webber, but the pecking order at RBR has been established. And Webber has some work to do in order to make sure that his strong performance alongside Vettel last year doesnt get noted in the history books as luck.

Webber needs to be close to Vettel, and if Vettel faulters he needs to be there to bag a strong result for RBR. He did that well last year with a number of podiums, 1-2s for RBR and when Vettel has issues in quali etc Webber won two GPs.

I know we are only two races in, but Webber needs to compose himself and do better

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

Laughable.

Delusional more like

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by OZ_HCR32

Webber needs to be close to Vettel, and if Vettel faulters he needs to be there to bag a strong result for RBR.

Thats the point really. Imo, given the car he has underneath him, he should have been right up Seb's chuff and when Seb had his problem's, Mark should have inherited the position and the win.

[Adam43]

Webber quickest in third practice, a smidge ahead of Louise and Vet. Another driver of the race performance there

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

Laughable.

Care to elaborate?

[Adam43]

This round to Webber. On the right tyres, great choice, brilliant driving.

I wonder if Rosberg will have his front wing after the first corner

[Knowlesy]

Well done Mark!

With this result he should go into turn one tomorrow at least in fourth place.

[cmotd]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Thats the point really. Imo, given the car he has underneath him, he should have been right up Seb's chuff and when Seb had his problem's, Mark should have inherited the position and the win.

That doesn't make any sense, if seb & webber had been brought in for slicks with everyone else webber would have been right where you say he should. Watch the race again

Great drive for pole by Webz...

[Super Hans]

Good call from Webber and a good drive to make it work.

[OZ_HCR32]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Well done Mark!

With this result he should go into turn one tomorrow at least in fourth place.

haha, so true. The guy hash a da few front row starts, and i dont think he has ever made easy work of getting to the first corner cleanly. Statistics say he has to get it right sooner or later {crosses fingers}

[cmotd]

Yeah, his race starts are the worst part of his driving repertoire. He should practice them a lot more

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by cmotd

Yeah, his race starts are the worst part of his driving repertoire. He should practice them a lot more

Unless you've actually started a race in an F1 car surely you can't possibly com....yada, yada, yada.

[Fox89]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

Unless you've actually started a race in an F1 car surely you can't possibly com....yada, yada, yada.

Zing!

Anyway, good call from Mark there. He actually had a couple of fast laps, rather then just the one at the end I was expecting. He did well to keep it on the grey stuff up to that point.

[Mr V]

Fair play to Mark today, made the best decision on tyres in difficult conditions. Can't wait for the race

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

Unless you've actually started a race in an F1 car surely you can't possibly com....yada, yada, yada.

The day we started to limit these thread to only those who'd driven an F1 car was a bad day. I preferred the previous 2 GP win victory limit.