[LM24] Pescarolo Sport future plans...?!?!

[Simmi]

Badger, before you blow a gasket, don't you think that teams who have run and supported ACO rules racing for years like AMR and Pesca deserve to be given a bit of a break if they want to bring an untested car to race.

The ACO aren't about to turn away entries like that. I'd much rather see the 03 attempt to get out there than another LMP2. And if you look down the reserve list it's not like there are teams lining up around the block to get in.

Frankly there's always been some chaff on the Le Mans entry list. Completely agree with everything GT6 said so don't start throwing out patronising questions.

[The Badger]

I would set a ground rule that if a car hasnt raced , then no , It doesnt get in . Keeps the dross out .

And you dont know who entered and didnt get an invite . There were more deserving chassis on the reserve list .

As for Pescarolo , or course they deserve an entry ..... but with what exactly ? It isnt their birth right yaknow .

Commenting, Greg Murphy said:

“We’re absolutely delighted to be taking part in this year’s Le Mans 24 hours race and it is an honour that we will be there.”

“This is only our first season in the European Le Mans but we’ve already shown that we can compete and challenge the best of them and that’s exactly what will be required from us in the Le Mans 24 hour. We’ll have a lot of time over there to test the car and get ourselves fully prepared for the race.”

“This will be a new challenge for Murphy Prototype Racing but it is one we’re ready for and we are thrilled that we will be competing.”

Apply that to the Pescarolo P03 please . Im not alone in my thoughts .

[gustavobamba]

Originally Posted by The Badger

I would set a ground rule that if a car hasnt raced , then no , It doesnt get in . Keeps the dross out .

And you dont know who entered and didnt get an invite . There were more deserving chassis on the reserve list .

As for Pescarolo , or course they deserve an entry ..... but with what exactly ? It isnt their birth right yaknow .

Commenting, Greg Murphy said:

“We’re absolutely delighted to be taking part in this year’s Le Mans 24 hours race and it is an honour that we will be there.”

“This is only our first season in the European Le Mans but we’ve already shown that we can compete and challenge the best of them and that’s exactly what will be required from us in the Le Mans 24 hour. We’ll have a lot of time over there to test the car and get ourselves fully prepared for the race.”

“This will be a new challenge for Murphy Prototype Racing but it is one we’re ready for and we are thrilled that we will be competing.”

Apply that to the Pescarolo P03 please . Im not alone in my thoughts .

I will not continue to discuss with you, you have an opinion different from mine so let´s continue that way.

For me the 03 is being prepared for hybrid technology to attract a manufacturer in 2014. Mr. Henry is running a open car (AMR tub) prepared for hybrid tech, and is also running a Coupe (Dome) to learn how to make a coupe to introduce one in 2014, is learning is smart he want´s Niss... ups!!!

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by The Badger

I would set a ground rule that if a car hasnt raced , then no , It doesnt get in . Keeps the dross out .

Going through relatively recent history... the Dauer 962 LM's first race was Le Mans. The Porsche WSC95's first race was Le Mans. The Toyota GT-One's first race was Le Mans. The Bentley GTP's first race was Le Mans. All these cars came into Le Mans without prior race testing and they either won or were in with a shot at winning in their first race. I'm not saying the Pesca 03 will be, but a sweeping generalization like that doesn't really work.

[The Badger]

Read my previous post victor . I already mentioned that works teams had done this , and each one of the above had thousands of miles of testing done . The Benz had over 22000 miles done at Michigan superspeedway .....

P03 , no testing , no race with an abysmal chassis , that hasnt been proven otherwise yet ..... with a fantastic fast and efficient Judd engine . I dont expect much . I can just imagine the embarresment !!!

Ok , maybe a little harsh . Saying if it hasnt raced before , but at least get some miles under its belt for Gods sake .

You dont just get outta your armchair and decide to do a marathon , do you .

[Dead-Eye]

Maybe having a rule that an unraced car has to prove it can run competitive times at the test day would be a solution. Might be difficult to get a reserve in with the test day being this late though.

[gwyllion]

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/newsmarch12.html has a small update on the Pescarolo 03.

While few details have been released on the Pescarolo 03, we have been told that the new car will, along with utilizing the AMR-One monocoque, also is using the Aston Martin's nose box crash structure, this being one less thing to design and validate. Of course now we understand the Spa entry for the Pecarolo 03 is unlikely though there are expectations the car will be on display.

[GT6]

Mr Badger

Le Mans is a sportscar race in which cars race for 24 hours many enter but only one can win but of those that try some will fail spectacularly and some will go on to win later.
The attempt by AMR was not great but they tried and to be critical of their effort is acceptable but always remember that not everyone can get it right, yes I was disappointed with last year but it added to the interest of the race and I am sure added a considerable number of visitors and a big boost to the press interest in the race, that perhaps was the only achievement.
I will being admit to being annoyed that any team does not perfom as well as expected but I still want as many different cars in the race as possible if all cars were the same and no one tried different things then Le mans itseft would be the loser and I would not be looking forward to my 27th 24 hour race in two months time

[The Badger]

Ok , lets leave it at that Mr.GT ..... no hard feelings .

[GT6]

That's OK hopefully you will make it to a ten-tenths meet soon and then we can have a good discussion about things, sorry you are not coming this year have you thought about doing the classic, different to the main event but still fun

[aneesh99]

Originally Posted by The Badger

So , you feel the 2 car entry from AMR last year was a good idea then .

Benifit of hindsight mate, we don't play that game here. Did anyone really predict that they would be a total disaster?

If we're going to start judging enteries on their past or how competitive we percieve them to be, then should Peugeot have been in 2011 considering the absolute joke that 2010 turned out to be?

As long as the invite formula continues, there's always going to be friction. I don't really have a bone to pick, as long as they don't let in teams like JLOC

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by aneesh99

Did anyone really predict that they would be a total disaster?

Yes , I thought so .

[FIRE]

I have not followed the news about the new Pescarolo. What if they crash the car and they can't repair the tub. Prodrive will build a new tub?

Shame they don't go for a Dome tub. IMO that would be a better choice on the long term.

[alexkiller8]

they have a spare tub, however i think that this is the last of their problems, the 01evo that ran at sebring uses the same tub/chassis since early 2009... to damage the chassis is required a crash like the one of mcnish.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Yes , I thought so .

You werent the only one Badger. Great to see them in GT though.

Hopefully Henri can do well with the AMR-One something that the factory never did.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Yes , I thought so .

I thought so too. If one look back in the AMR thread there where several who predicted doom over the AMR program.

Originally Posted by FIRE

I have not followed the news about the new Pescarolo. What if they crash the car and they can't repair the tub. Prodrive will build a new tub?

Shame they don't go for a Dome tub. IMO that would be a better choice on the long term.

Remember the Deltawing is also using the AMR Tub. And if Pescarolo bought the rights for the Tub, they car get it reproduced when ever they want. Like Oak bought the Rights for the Pescarolo 01.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by FIRE

I have not followed the news about the new Pescarolo. What if they crash the car and they can't repair the tub. Prodrive will build a new tub?

Pescarolo and DeltaWing each bought two tubs from Prodrive. So Pescarolo has a replacement tub in case their tub would get damaged beyond repair.

Originally Posted by FIRE

Shame they don't go for a Dome tub. IMO that would be a better choice on the long term.

They only need a tub for 2 years, because in 2014 the dimension of LMP1 cars will change. Building an open top prototype is much easier for a small manufacturer like Pescarolo.

[gwyllion]

http://endurance-info.com/version2/a...nce-10380.html confirms that the Pescarolo 03 will not be finished in time for Spa.

[alexkiller8]

Originally Posted by CTD

Remember the Deltawing is also using the AMR Tub. And if Pescarolo bought the rights for the Tub, they car get it reproduced when ever they want. Like Oak bought the Rights for the Pescarolo 01.

you forgot the "little" detail: pescarolo 01, pescarolo 01evo and all OAK lmp1 and lmp2 pescarolo 01 versions don't use a pescarolo or oak tub, but still the old courage C60 one. Nobody bought rights of nothing; pescarolo before their pescarolo 01 used courage C60 cars to run, they took the tub of the cars and built their new car (pescarolo 01 and pescarolo 01evo in 2009) then they started also to build this car for customers (basicly is what oreca is doing now with oreca03, a car built using the LC75 chassis, but marked oreca because they bought courage company some year ago). Oak racing bought 2 pescarolo 01evo and used them in lmp2, then after the dismise of pescarolo in 2009 bought other 3 or 4 cars from sora racing or during the bankruptcy auction (the 4 cars used in LM 2011 + the one given back to pescarolo team for their 2011 LMS/LM + the one used by united autosport in road atlanta, that maybe could be just a oak racing used car and not a new one) and then these tubs were used again for the 2011 and 2012 lmp1 and lmp2 oak bodyworks. Pescarolo team (like almost all private teams) doesn't own any carbon lab structure so they simply can't build a their tub/chassis or a replica of the AMR-one tub!

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by alexkiller8

you forgot the "little" detail: pescarolo 01, pescarolo 01evo and all OAK lmp1 and lmp2 pescarolo 01 versions don't use a pescarolo or oak tub, but still the old courage C60 one.

Wrong, the tub is new since 2007. Maybe it's still based on the C60 tub, but it's not exactly the C60 tub any longer, the car had to be redesigned for 2007 to move away from "hybrid" regulations to full LMP1 regulations. Take note of the roll hoops in 2006 and 2007, those are integral to the tub. Also, Pescarolo only ever used two C60 chassis between 2001 and 2006, and those two chassis got retired at the end of '06, and at least 10 examples of the 01 chassis have been produced since 2007.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

Wrong, the tub is new since 2007. Maybe it's still based on the C60 tub, but it's not exactly the C60 tub any longer, the car had to be redesigned for 2007 to move away from "hybrid" regulations to full LMP1 regulations. Take note of the roll hoops in 2006 and 2007, those are integral to the tub. Also, Pescarolo only ever used two C60 chassis between 2001 and 2006, and those two chassis got retired at the end of '06, and at least 10 examples of the 01 chassis have been produced since 2007.

Victor_RO is correct.

While many of the previously parts could be carried over to the new car, Pescarolo did require a completely new carbon fibre monocoque to be constructed to comply with the double roll-hoop regulations. By having more than just the two tubs constructed, need for the 'Works' team, a lot of the costs were covered. The first Pescarolo production included six tubs, three of which were intended for customer LMP1 and LMP2 cars.

source: http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/3...LMP1-Judd.html

Also remember that Lister bought the second Pescarolo 01 chassis, which they wanted to use as a starting point for their own LMP1 car. See http://www.endurance-info.com/article.php?sid=4529

[alexkiller8]

what does it mean the car had to be "redesigned"? do you think that the same tub can't be used for different or "redesigned" bodywork? well is strange, because the lola coupè (code 60) tub was used by prodrive as tub for their dbr1-2 (AKA lola aston)... a car with a "redesigned" bodywork than the standard lola one.
I know that 12 C60 tubs have been bought and called "01" used in years to build 01 and 01evo cars, but this what it means? if i go to mcdonald's and buy a big mac, i can call it also "superburger" but always remains a big mac! the pescarolo and oak cars actually still use that tub, indipendently by the name that someone gave to them. I knew about some modification for the regulamentation in 2007, but at least we can say pescarolo tub = a C60 modified tub.

I can give you a really recent example, do you remember last year when pedro lamy with the 908 smashed the RML axr-01d during spa practice? the car was totally damaged, tub included. Well RML asked to supply another tub not to honda, but to oreca, do you know why? because the arx-01/abcd (surely the g too) tub even if has been manufacted by HPD in the reality is a copy of the LC75 one.

[gwyllion]

The difference between the Courage C60 and Pescarolo 01 is in the roll hopes. C60 is single roll hope and 01 is double roll hope. The second roll hope on the Pescarolo 01 is an integral part of the monocoque.

That is also the reason why Courage made the LC70 monocoque, which is used by Acura and Oreca.

[alexkiller8]

read above, we can call the pescarolo tub a modified courage tub, but for sure not a pescarolo tub.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by alexkiller8

read above, we can call the pescarolo tub a modified courage tub, but for sure not a pescarolo tub.

The C60 tub was built to LMP900 regulations. The Pescarolo 01 tub was built to LMP1 regulations of 2007, and the 01 Evo for the 2009 rules. Two (make that three) different sets of regulations. The 01's tub may have been based on the C60 tub, but it it not identical. Not identical = different.