Irish F.Atlantic

[Chris Townsend]

Along with the NZ Atlantic thread I thought that some of us might like to play with this. This is the first half of the Irish season for 74, as I currently have it, and any suggestions, race numbers, retirement reasons, missing runners, lap charts, and sacred relics would be gratefully appreciated. Would especially like to know the identity of McGarrity's B25 and previous owners, if not chassis numbers, of the Lotus 69s and the March 722s apart from Lambe's which was advertised as 41, the ex Wheatcroft car at the end of the season. I have good trails for 69s in Ireland up to 72, then most of them, apart from the Fildes car, go cold.

Bryan, I should be working on 75 this weekend and should get some detail results on your 74B accordingly.


Mondello
15.4.74

1 Jay Pollock Crosslé 22F-BDA Desmond Mack 15 laps 0.14.22.6 77.63
2 Patsy McGarrity Chevron B25-BDA 15 0.14.30.0 0.56.4
3 Ken Fildes Lotus 69 [71/69.4.F2]-BDA 15 0.14.48.0
4 Walter Kinnear Lotus 69-BDA 15 0.15.00.2
5 Tom O'Leary Brabham BT40 [36]-BDA 15 0.15.09.6
6 Arthur Collier March 73B [712M-5]-BDA 15 0.15.16.2
7 Tony Martin March 722-BDA 15 0.15.18.6
R Dermot O'Leary Lotus 69-BDA 3
R David Lambe March 722 [41]-BDA 3
DNS Des Donnelly March 73B [8]-BDA Driveshaft


Mondello
12.5.74

1 Patsy McGarrity 6 Chevron B25-BDA 15 0.17.29.4 63.81
2 Des Donnelly March 73B [8]-BDA 15 0.17.58.6
3 Tony Martin March 722-BDA 15 0.18.05.6
4 David Lambe 10 March 722 [41]-BDA 15 0.18.18.4
5 Jay Pollock Crosslé 22F-BDA Desmond Mack 15 0.18.29.0 1.07.8
6 Arthur Collier March 73B [712M-5]-BDA 15 0.18.30.4
7 Walter Kinnear Lotus 69-BDA 14
8 Ken Fildes Lotus 69 [71/69.4.F2]-BDA 14
9 Dermot McFeeley March 73B-BDA 14
10
11 Bill Gowdy Brabham BT30-BDA
12 Dermot O'Leary Lotus 69-BDA 0 Ignition

Mondello
3.6.74

1 Patsy McGarrity Chevron B25-BDA 15 laps 0.14.39.6 FL 0.57.6
2 Ken Fildes Lotus 69 [71/69.4.F2]-BDA 15 0.14.48.8
3 Des Donnelly March 73B [8]-BDA 15 0.15.01.6
4 Tony Martin March 722-BDA 15 0.15.04.0
5 Nelson Todd Chevron B20-BDA 15 0.15.06.2 FL 0.57.6
6 Walter Kinnear Lotus 69-BDA 15 0.15.15.0
7 Dermot O'Leary Lotus 69-BDA 10 Fire
8 Bill Gowdy Brabham BT30-BDA 8
9 Dermot McFeeley March 73B-BDA 1 Accident

Mondello
16.6.74

1 Patsy McGarrity Chevron B25-BDA 15 laps 0.14.47.8 75.42 FL 0.57.6
2 Nelson Todd Chevron B20-BDA 15 0.14.51.2
3 Ken Fildes Lotus 69 [71/69.4.F2]-BDA 15 0.15.52.0
4 Des Donnelly March 73B [8]-BDA 15 0.15.54.6
5 Walter Kinnear Lotus 69-BDA 15 0.15.06.6
6 Tony Martin March 722-BDA 15 0.15.11.8
7 Bill Gowdy Brabham BT30-BDA
8 Harold McGarrity Brabham BT30-BDA
9 John Smith March 722-BDA
10 Arthur Collier March 73B [712M-5]-BDA
DNA Jay Pollock Crosslé 22F-BDA Desmond Mack

Kirkistown 13.7.74?

1 Ken Fildes Lotus 69 [71/69.4.F2]-BDA 15 0.14.22.4 95.64
2 Harold McGarrity Brabham BT30-BDA 15 0.14.50.0
3 John Smith March 722-BDA 15 0.14.52.2
4
5
6
7 Patsy McGarrity Chevron B25-BDA 13 Petrol pump 0.55.4
8 Des Donnelly March 73B [8]-BDA 13 Not known
9 Tony Martin March 722-BDA 3 Accident
10 Dermot McFeeley March 73B-BDA 1 Not known

[Richard Young]

Not sure if any of this helps, but John Smith still has the March 722 he ran then - although it spent some time climbing hill in other hands - and ran it for son Darwin in a Kirkistyown 'Libre' race last year - he won.
I belioeve it to have been bought new in '72. Of the Lotus 69s over here, John Pollock - alder brother of Jay - ran one in Atlantic, and one was(briefly) hill climbed by Bertie Spring, although I don't know which one that was. As Bertie is, sadly, no longer with us, I'm not sure how the truth will ever be discovered.....

[Chris Townsend]

Richard

If John Smith still has that 722 [and it was indeed from new] that's extraordinary and rather charming! One owner, hardly used...
Any idea what the plate says, or could you find out? I have all sorts of questions about John's Brabhams before he bought the March.

John Pollock's 69 was 71/69.2.F2, ex Irish Racing Cars in 1971. Sold to Paddy Farrelly in 73. It's advertised in Autosport in Sept 77 as virtually unused for the last four years. The seller is in N.Ireland, not the Republic. Would that have been the Spring car? The 69 I have trouble with is the older Pollock car [69.2.F2] [ex Ikuzawa] which he races in 1970. Don't know who he sells it to.

[Richard Young]

I have a feeling Walter Kinnear may appear somewhere in the Lotus 69 saga, possibly in connection with the older car.
More recently, Billy Patterson had one here (briefly) which was reputed to be ex-Ikuzawa. I will ring John tomorrow ad enquire about Ch no, and also Brabhams. I do recall he had a BT(I think)14 which was ex-Malcolm Templeton, fitted with a Twin-Cam and, later, a BT30. He also has the Smith-Ford, a car he built himself much earlier which is, as far as I know, the only car to have run in both front and rear-engined forms and in three formulae, winning in all of them !
His 722 has had several owners and John only got it back comparatively recently. Bodywork had evolved into 742 by then but he has it back looking very original.

[Bryan Miller]

Chris , Mondello April, Obviously you know it as something else but A.S list Martin's car as a 72B

[Bryan Miller]

Chris, Autosport lists a Kirkistown meeting about 5th.May 74 , Irelands belated F/Atl debut. May 9 p.31.

[Richard Young]

Bryan,
As custodian of what remains of the Kirkistown files, I will look when I go to the track tomorrow. Do we mean Tony Martin ?
Assuming I can find the relevant file, are there any other queries ? They (the files)are in the loft of our tractor shed and it's no mean climb for an overweight chap !

[Bryan Miller]

Richard, yes Tony Martin , Chris has the car listed as per 722 , but somewhere else I see it as 72B , be helpfull if we could see how he entered for the meeting.
It must be all that funny black stuff you guys drink called beer.
Regards Bryan.

[Chris Townsend]

Bryan

I don't think that there was such a thing as the 72B when it left the factory. If you wanted an Atlantic March in 1972 you bought a 722 [I guess more than half the 41 722's built went as Atlantics.] However, several people in Ireland use this designation in 74. Martin's car is sometimes described as a 722 in reports and sometimes a 72B.

Richard: What would be immensely useful would be entry lists, practice time sheets and results sheets for Atlantic at Kirkistown from 73 onwards. [I think that was the year Ireland went Atlantic.] One problem I have with 1974 is that for some bizarre reason Motoring News didn't cover any Irish races so I don't have reports to cross check with Autosport.

Also, is there a person with similar responsibility to you at Mondello, and with a similar willingness to clamber into the loft?
Many thanks for your help.

Chris

[Bryan Miller]

Chris,looks like the BT.30s in Ireland are a small problem , you have Bill Gowdy in BT30-8 once , but no others.
Given that Irish Racing Team were running BT.30s.-12 and -20 during 1971 it is a fair chance these may have ended up in Ireland next , unless you have trails for these no. going elsewhere.
Yes I know there was no such thing as a 72B , just wondered how the car had been officially entered for the meeting.
Bryan.

[Chris Townsend]

Bryan

Actually I'm not even sure about the Gowdy car!
I agree that the BT30s might well come from Irish Racing Team, but the problem is that those aren't the only cars. I have at least four BT30s in Ireland in the early 70s.

30-6 Last seen in the hands of Nelson Todd in 1971
30-8 Last owned by John Smith, 1971
30-12 Sold by Tommy Reid to Nelson Todd, August 72 [and that sale suggesting that something bad had happened to Todd's 30-6]
30-20 Last owned by Kevin Murphy 1972, raced by Brian Cullen in '71

There's also the distinct possibility that other BT30s would have crossed the Irish Sea. I have the trails for very few BT30s up to 1974 so can't disallow this.

Now I have at some point to go back and look at Irish Atlantic racing in '73, and the libre races in '72. I suspect that when I do this the trails will emerge. [As will those errant Lotus 69s]. Unfortunately I have to go make some money, so for the next month or two my time is limited. But we'll get there!

Chris

[Bryan Miller]

Chris, I have good supply of Autosport in 1972 because of the BT35 history , so I am volunteering to go delving into Irish Atlantic in the early 70s,O.K.
I will make it my project as I really can't assist much om the 74 series .
I will give you a list of trails , if you have them , fine, if not , but I should be able to turn up somethings to assist.
Regards Bryan.

[David McKinney]

I can bring the Irish BT30 data a little closer to the present.
30-6 crossed the water again in 1972 and was campaigned in British events by Ken Walker and Peter Kaye
30-12 was raced by John Pollock in 1973
30-20 was also raced (for Murphy) by Brian Nelson and Patsy McGarrity in 1972. Nelson then seems to have bought it, and raced it in 1973, before passing it on to Gowdy. Gowdy also raced in in 1974
Harold McGarrity raced a car in 1974, possibly 30-12. This was subsequently raced by Paddy Heron.
There was one other Irish-based B30, John Watson's 30-11, which he used 1970-72. It was raced in English club events late 1972 by Bob Howlings and then Tony Dean, and was then Philip Guerola's mount 1973-75

[Chris Townsend]

David

Thanks very much for this. I knew the history of the Guerola car, but the rest really extends the records. I've always presumed that the car Guerola ran in the Shellsport series in '76 was also BT30-11 and that he kept the car after '75. Would you agree?

Chris

[Bryan Miller]

Chris, David has been more valuable on BT 30s than I ever can be , so for the moment I will try and sort out the Modus thread as I am much more familiar with them .
We did have 3 BT30s in Aust. 1 still remains , I will dig out info. and see what all 3 histories and ch. no. were.

David , what on earth were you doing in the 70s , looks like you were everywhere and all at the same time.
Bryan.
P.S. No wonder Paul England was reticent re. Brabham Dolphin , as it was entered as Brabham BT36 and was not , so up comes this man asking difficult questions.
Bryan.

[Bryan Miller]

CFhris, BT30-5 or BT30-15 both as per your list Gerard cars -5 Williams/Courage , According to F1R used by Gerard twice for Brian Hart, but I also see same for -15. typo ??
A/S 19-8-71 p3 states the Bob Gerard car run for Brian Hart is being fitted with B.D.A. for Robert Salisbury.

Some clear-ups .
BT30-3 , Westbury to Jim Charnock who purchased car from Westbury in 1974 , then to Christopher Mann till 1983 , then to Ray Delaney Australia 1983 , rebuilt and into historic in Aust. circa 1986/7 , sold to I believe U.S.A. possibly Art. Valdez circa 1990/1
BT30-6 , after Irish Racing Cars etc. to Bob Howlings fitted twin cam /hillclimbs,to John Bradburn , date ???
1982/3 to James Wallis restored and in 1984 HSCC pre. 1971 Championship , to Bob Howlings 1985 , to Tony Thompson 1986, to Milldent Motorsport [ Chris Farrell then in U.K ]but returning to Oz with car . Car retained to this day.
BT30-14 Ronnie Mackay 71/2 , sold by M.R.E. to Chong Boon Seng late 72 less eng. sent to Singapore ran in Singapore G.P. 1973 also other S.E. Asian races , body updated to 36 panels , sold to Del Schloemer end 1975, circa 1980 sold to Wybe Valkema ret.till1982 sold to Mr. Brian Wilson Aust. and came to Aust. for rebuild , completed and raced then sold with twin cam to overseas circa 93. Iwill find out where car went from Brian Wilson and advise.

Although not a 30 , I may as well get rid of this one too, BT.35-36, a/S 18-nov.71 p59 came to Aust. very soon after that adv.has been here ever since , Purchased by Brian Cameron , then to Kurt Seeburg , then to Brian Sampson who retains.
Bryan.

[Chris Townsend]

Brian

When BT30-5 crops up in F1R at end of '71, not having run at all in 1970, I think it's a misprint. I recently started rechecking F1R F2 reports against Motoring News and A/S for '71, where the detail on chassis numbers and who had which car is pretty good. I will run through the BT30s [69-71] but you'll need to be patient.
I'd missed the statement about Salisbury using that car [30-15], which suggests that the Martin Webb car in F.Libre is therefore 30-26. However, race reports in 71 ALL describe that Salisbury car as a BT35. So was it rebodied early or did Mr Bob buy his mechanic [for that's how Salisbury started] a new BT35?

That Mckay sale is really useful. Now I need to know whose March 722 he spent the money on for the '73 season.

Chris

[Chris Townsend]

Have cleared up a couple of Irish Lotus 69s.

71/69.3.F2. 1974: Ken Fildes; 1975: Eddie Jordan; 1976: Warren Booth
71/69.4.F2. 1972: Patsy McGarrity; 1973-74: Dermot O'Leary

[Richard Young]

Chris,
Haven't forgotten the quest for Atlantic stuff - or john Smith's chassis number, but I happened to be speaking to Bill Gowdy today and he tells he that his BT30 was originally owned by Kevin Murphy, that he sold it to Mike Ticehurst (MRE) and the he believes it is now somewhere in France....You probably knew all this but.....

[Chris Townsend]

Richard

Thanks, Dave McKinney had solved the Kevin Murphy bit of Bill Gowdy's car, but didn't know where it went after him.
Looking forward to other discoveries.

[Richard Young]

Hah !
What a coincidence. I just looked and there you were....The last post !
Okay, I spoke to John Smith this afternoon. He tells me his March 722 is No 18.
But now I have another query. A Ralt RT1 appeared at the track today, now owned by Dan Daly and BDG powered. However I first saw this car in an Autosport ad 20-ish years ago (could it have been a John Brannigan one ?) when it had some kind of US V6 fitted. It was offered for sale with a Cicale sports car body as an alternative.. Subsequently it appeared here owned - but never run - by Jackie Harris before moving on to Jeremy Bouckley.
But.....Where did it come from. It doesn't appear to have any kind of chassis plate, but the tun looks sufficiently similar to my old - and sadly now departed - ex-Perkins RT1/2/Coogar to render it pretty venerable. As it came from the US, could it have been a Supervee at one time or, more acceptably, an Atlantic ?. Track appears to be narrow but outboard rear radius rod mounting points suggest 75, or 76 at latest......
As one who firmly believes that the RT1 was the friendliest racing car of its time, I'd love to know....
Re Bill Gowdy. He tells me he saw the BT30 at Donington not so very long ago and recognised the curious purple colour that some bits were painted.......
I have now found a box at Kirkistown marked '1972' and there seem to be more in the carker bits of the store........Maybe Sunday when I get tomorrows rade meeting out of the way.
Cheers
Does anybody know anything about this one

[Richard Young]

Just read the above and realise that I can't type after midnight.
Apologies......

[allenbrown]

Cicale-bodied Ralt RT1? There were several of those in Can-Am between 1979 and 1984. At least one ran in the big class with a V6. If you can give me any more clues, I may be able to narrow it down.

Allen

[Chris Townsend]

Richard

John Smith 722-18? This is interesting. F1Register gives this as Beuttler's 'works' car in 1972, and Motoring News gives that chassis number for Beuttler at the thruxton and Hockenheim races in April '72 and Pau in May.

Two questions come to mind: Did John get back the car he'd sold? Or, did he get a car that Beuttler had used first?

Or were there two 722-18s in circulation?

Chris

[Bryan Miller]

Chris.

A/S. 6/2/75 P.39 gives Patsy McGarrity's Chevron B25 as ex John Lepp thence to Pat Woods after McGarrity .

Also , since we seem to be playing with Lotus 69's here , did you see the piece A/S 9/1/75 re. Bill Brack in Canada in 1974 used his Crosty which was in fact a modified version of Dave Walkers Lotus 69. Page 7.

Bryan.