Irish F.Atlantic

[Smellybeard]

I've dug out a few photographs of the RT1 that used to be housed in a Cicale CanAm body. I've put them at www.dendra.net/RT1/ . Any Ideas of what car it is? I have more photographs if needed.

Dave.

[allenbrown]

Dave

Mike Freberg drove a Ralt RT1 with a Buick V6 engine in Can-Am in 1983. How do you know it once had a Cicale body? Does it still have the body with it somewhere? Do you know the name of any of its US owners?

Allen

[Bryan Miller]

Dear all, I know we are not into wild guesses but given the car has an FG gearbox , is it possible this is the ex Eddie Cheever RT1 F2 car.

Chris do you have a trail for that car.???
Bryan

[Bryan Miller]

Chris,re. ex John Lepp Chevron B25 ,did you have a number for that car.???
Bryan.

[Chris Townsend]

Bryan

which Cheever F2 RT1?
RT1-35 used 1976. Owned by Roger Heavens Racing 1977 but not raced.
RT1-64 used 1977 by Cheever. 1978 raced by Romeo Camathias in F2 then sold to Alo Lawler and used in AFX championship 78-79 with a Hart 420R engine.

From what I can see of Ralt records it looks as though ten F2 models were built. RT1-35 in 1976, then three for Project 4 [64;67;68] three for Sc.Passatore/Everest [65;66;69] fitted with the Ferrari engine; then 87 for Ariel Bakst; 92 for Vicic in Japan and 99 for Cassani [raced by Larry Perkins and Manfred Winkelhock]

With an FG and big brakes it could presumably be any of those cars, or an Atlantic that someone modified.


Don't have a number for the Lepp B25 but know that he raced possibly three different cars in the season and certainly two [a works F2 car, then his own FAtlantic, and at the end of the season the car that was being sold to Patsy McGarrity - which might have been the car that Lepp used at Mallory at the start of 73] Might know more once Allen and I have been to look at the Chevron records

Chris

[Bryan Miller]

Chris, I said we were not into wild guesses , and then have a go myself. Oh dear, it was the first one I thought of. Yes certainly could have been modded, I will stay away from mad guesses in future.

Reards Bryan.

[Bryan Miller]

Chris .

Since you bought up the subject of Chevron records , have you looked at the numbers in the Chevron book and then compared them to the Autosport article March 6 1975.
There are some big discrepancies.

Bryan.

[allenbrown]

Huge discrepancies. The book makes more sense than the article where Chevron may have been counting tubs as well.

Allen

[Smellybeard]

As far as I know, the Alo Lawler RT1 went to Tom O Leary in '81 who raced it here in Atlantic. It was a very nice car. I don't know what happened it after.

The ex-V6 RT1 has no deformable structures and show signs of being a '75 or '76 car. At the time it was purchased we were told it was the "first RT1" (this would make it the third "first RT1" I had heard of, excluding the real first RT1...). I think some of it it's probably from the first year of production. The lack of a plate suggests that at some stage it was probably improperly imported into some county with high duties (SA? AUS??).

Dave.

[Chris Townsend]

Smellybeard

Your comments might allow us to narrow the search. Here are my histories of 1975 Ralts, and there are one or two possibilities in there.

Ralt
RT1 /1 Ford t/c 1975: Roberto Marazzi
1976: Oscar Pedersoli [Sc. Brescia Corse]
This car for sale recently as F3

/2 Ford t/c 1975 Works: Larry Perkins (F3)
1976: Mike McDowell (h.c) [Can probably trace history within British hillclimbing after this]

/3 Ford t/c 1975: Works: Terry Perkins
1976-77: Hans-Peter Hess [F3] [only other possibility is 24]

/4 BMW 1975: Bertram Schafer
1976: Bertram Schafer

/5: Hart BDA 1975-1977 John McDonald (Singapore)
1979 Peter Marshall (SEA)

/6 BDA 1975: Pat Walter (SCCA: FAtlantic)

/7 BDX Swindon 1975-76 John Wingfield Wrecked in fatal accident to Wingfield at Thruxton G8 race September 76

/8 BMW M12 1975-77 Lochmann: Freddy Kottulinsky
Missed this off my list of F2 Ralts. This might have had an FG and bigger brakes, and would have had the later deformables.

/9 Hart 420R 1975-77 Teddy Yip: Vern Schuppan and others in S.East Asia

/10 BDA Swindon 1975-76 Roy Klomfass (FAt: ZA)
Wrecked in huge accident in 76.

Your comment on the lack of plate and the high duties, together with the age hints at the Klomfass car but that's total hunch/speculation

Chris

[Bryan Miller]

Chris.
You can remove RT1-5 from list of supects, as it ended up over here, I have the full trail .
About 3 years ago Peter Mohr took it to the U.S.A. and raced it there , when he returned he had done a chinese deal and returned with RT4-354.

In the shower this morning I was contemplating the use of the words , WRITTEN OFF , DESTROYED , WRECKED ETC. both by period reports and currently.

Your comments re. Klomfass car as an example , Wrecked ,
but what did that mean to the reporter , knocked a couple of corners off , or the whole catastrophy .
In most cases unless the car was burnt to a crisp , we are really flying blind unless we know car poss. broken up and components then used in another car .
Old racing cars have a habit of lurking around as a collection of bits seemingly forever.

Bryan.

[Richard Young]

Chris,
I can bring you up to date on RT1/2, as I drove it in a hill climb last month ! After Coombs of Guidford director Mike McDowell got hold of it he ran one year on UK hills with Hart power before turning it into the Coogar with DFV conversion by Derek Gardner (COO for Coombs, GAR for Gardner).
It then passed to Alan Payne who fitted a Rover V8 and thence to David Keer from whom I acquired it in 1986.
It lived with me for 12 years, during which it won 3 Irish Hill Climb Championships before going on to John Leinster in Londonderry and thence to its current home with John McNamara in Co Clare.
The tub has been re-bonded and riveted a couple of times, but it is essentially original. When I got it it had the 'narrow cockpit' bodywork - and a March nose and Brabham wing (!) but we treated it to a set of later Ralt fibreglass a few years back. It remains my favourite racing car andm thanks to the generosity of its current owner, I get to drive it occasionally !

[Smellybeard]

I think RT1/9 is also an Irish resident. It has the long roll-over supports and the later (common) style of deformable structures. The Kottulinsky car had an earlier style of deformables which were not quite the same.

At what stage were deformables required on Atlantics? Were RT1 tubs retofitted with them? Is there any other way of identifiyng the class an RT1 tub was intended for?

On another track, I have my old (mid '70s) Phoenix Park Programmes around somewhere. Can I look anything up for anybody? "The Park" is about three klicks away from my home and has been used as a motor sport venue since 1903. Methinks that makes it the oldest venue still in use in these parts, if not the world.

Dave.

[Chris Townsend]

Dave

Phoenix Park: Yes please, The Atlantic races, entry lists and stuff like that would be fantastic. 74 onwards I think they ran Atlantics there. Details for 74 when the Atlantic race was part of the British JP series are a real gap in the records [also heat results for those races]

Chris

[allenbrown]

Talking about Irish F.Atlantic, Barrie Smith emailed me recently about his Brabham BT8. Wasn't he involved in Irish racing in what would have been the very early days of F Atlantic? Any questions for him?

Allen

[Chris Townsend]

Couple of extra things

One for Smellybeard. The Klomfass RT1 - the first Atlantic - had deformable structures from the start. Also, it was meant to go to the USA at the end of '76 according to a Motoring News footnote. Also, my comment on the car's accident may be overstating it. Klomfass bends it quite badly in the season, but is back racing it, and finishes the last race of 76 in 2nd place with it. Come 1977 he's racing a March so maybe it did go intact to the US.

Plea for Richard Young [and Smellybeard]
Programmes and any other race information. In 1975 and 76 the British magazine coverage of Irish races is dreadful, they don't have Irish race reporters. Were there motor races at Kirkistown in 1976? You'd never know, unless Richard has the secrets up there in the barn.

Also, Richard, which local papers in N.Ireland would have covered Kirkistown races, if at all? There's a bit of a gap in history emerging here.

Chris

[Smellybeard]

Phoenix Park time.

We had a few nice cars out yesterday. RT1/9, a former winner in the hands of David Kennedy was one of them. Also out were:
B42/2 Ex Rosberg, P.McGarrity
Crossle 19F and 22F.

[Smellybeard]

I've stuck a few pictures from the Park up on my website -
www.dendra.net/PPK2003/

Has anyone got a colour picture of Rosberg in B42/2 ? The owner aims to restore it to it's original appearance and spec.

Dave.

[Chris Townsend]

Dave

I think that Autosport had that car on its cover for the issue reporting the Donington F2 race. Light blue and white as I remember. Car can probably still go round sideways on its own... Oh that man Rosberg could drive.

Chris

[Mackmot]

Here's a picture of Darwin in John's March. Ive just used that picture in a sponsorship prospectus i've been preparing for Darwin.

[Smellybeard]

More on the Mystery RT1...

It appears that that this RT1 is the Mike Freberg car (or part thereof). Has anyone any ideas what it was before that? Was it seriously pranged at any stage?

Did CanAm bodies do the rounds on different chassis?

Also, looking at RT1/9 over the weekend, I spotted some more differences. The rere crossmember is an almost identical casting but is machined differently for the FG box.

Dave.

[allenbrown]

Dave

Why do you think it was the Freberg car? I was in contact with his ex-mechanic at one time and may be able to find out more.

Allen

[Richard Young]

Apologies to Chris....I've had my head down for the past couple of months, but promise I WILL get into that shed soon. Papers for the period you mention which might have given coverage are 'Belfast Telegraph' , 'Bangor/Newtownards Spectator' (local weekly in several editions) and possibly the Irish Times. There wasn't much in the way of enthusiast stuff back then as we thought we were having some sort of war. However Brian Foley may have some bits and pieces.
I did quite a lot of Kirkistown stuff for Autosport and MN back then, but it was 'on and off' and....no records - very small cheques too, as I recall.....
Nice picture of Darwin Mackmot ! Who took it ? If you're talking to the lad, could you ask him if he wants the trophy he won that day ? It's still cluttering up my shelf ?

[Mackmot]

Darwin says he'll pop down to Kiristown to catch up and find me some Formula Ford drivers

[Dan Rear]

Atlantic RT1s, where did the Mike Catlow car come from. Always very well turned out in vivid green, it raced in England in 1980-81. Did he get it new, or was it ex-F2/Atlantic. Similar was the Ian Briggs car, I think this was the ex-Eden/Rouff/Wilds F2 car.

I used to hang go racing occasionally with Kim Mather at that time, that yellow Eden Ralt was his main opposition in Aurora '78. Kim was usually faster in practice, not so reliable in races. I suppose the Wilds Ralt was run by a slightly bigger team, with a little more resouce.

Dan Rear