Jason Plato, wrong or right

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by nicanary

You're not "alongside" if you use your front bumper to deliberately nudge the leading car's rear bumper- end of.

Don't think it was deliberate, just crass.

[Lancsbreaker]

Just looked at the you tube footage....on the replays showing the run-in to Paddock from above, its clear that Plato was never going to get round there at that speed on that line - as he goes across the pit exit and the grass he is effectively straightlining - destination, rear of Newsham's car. If Newsham hadn't been there Plato would have been out into the kitty litter anyway.

Typical Plato whinge - Why me?......Because, despite your talent, you can be clumsy and arrogant....and dangerous!

[westfieldbend]

If Plato had pulled off that maneuver in banger racing, he may well have been given a 3 month ban.

Just to confirm, BTCC is a 'light contact only' formula isn't it?

[Hamness]

The only thing worse than Platos driving standards is his cringing "holier than thou" attitude when being interviewed about it.

I suggest he also redefines his idea of "alongside" cos only his front bumper was anywhere near the rear quarter of the Vectra.

And I agree with an earlier post where penalties need to be applied during the race, not a paltry fine and points after the event.

I do enjoy door handle to door handle stuff but the sort of incidents seen yesterday have got worse year on year. Somebody is gonna get hurt if it is allowed to continue..........

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by Woolley

Don't think it was deliberate, just crass.

It's classic Plato, he'd have got past eventually, but has no patience. Another example was when he had pole at Snett in 2009. He knew Turkington would beat him from the line at the start, but Plato's tyres would be up to temp quicker and he'd get past the BMW no problem. What does he do? Has an impetuous punt into the Esses on lap one.

[Bramzel]

Two wheels on the grass and only the front bumper next to Newshams rear bumper. Can't get more wrong I'd say, he's making a complete fool out of himself by claiming he did nothing wrong.

[snowen250]

I've posted this over on the 'other' forum, but really i think it may get a more respected ear here.

Did anyone else think the driving standards today was shockingly poor? Not just Plato but also Neal, Collard as well as various others.

This nudge to pass thing has got to cut out.

It wouldnt be tolerated in club racing, so why is it allowed in the BTCC? When you watch it it seems like you are just waiting for the leader to be punted.

If you cant pass without touching, then you cant pass at all.

Simon

[Craner Curves]

In the organisers book, anything that negates the TV viewing experience is bad.

[awrb]

Yeah driving standards were a bit poor. Plato was terrible, but there was just quite a lot of contact throughout the field. I didn't see Collard do anything much though, his contact with Newsham in race 1 was Newsham moving over when Collard was well alongside. Unless you were referring to something else I've forgotten.

I think all this may be in part due to the nature of Brands Indy, it is pretty tight and doesn't have many places to pass, though this should not be an excuse. Having said that, I seem to remember being embarrassed and appalled after watching Donington last year, so I hope it's not the same for the next round.

[snowen250]

I thought i saw Collard doing a bit of nudging but it was the Newsham incident i was refering to. Apologies if in fact he was innocent in that!

[Craner Curves]

I read somewhere about Collard having contact when he was further down the field at one point later in the day. It was either that or the pathetic donuts he attempted.

[Bramzel]

It must be simple for race control to put a standard penalty on this? Nudge which unbalances the other party = penalty x. Easy as that.

[TerryD]

A lot of the 'Touring Cars' got away without being penalised in the race for '4 wheels off'. They were doing it lap after lap!

[KA]

Watching the clip, my first thought was 'Plato's tried to do the 3-abreast into Paddock pass that Yvan Muller pulled on Reid and Aiello back in 1999...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6sattmFg1E

...but made a poor job of it..' He really didn't have room to pull that one off...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3K77i...feature=relmfu

Definitely not JP's finest moment- especially as he seems to be incapable of admitting he was in the wrong. That gap on the inside of Newsham was always going to close unless Newsham moved over on Neal...

As a lot of people have said, there needs to be a real look at driving standards- trouble is, I think that particular genie has been out of the bottle now since the 90's...

[Alfa Fan]

Another thing that strikes you about that video is how much better the camera angles and inboard cameras were in the BHP era. Really makes such a difference, it looks SO much faster due to the lower camera angles and the better mix of track-side shots.

[Thaw Daggerslash]

Originally Posted by snowen250

I've posted this over on the 'other' forum, but really i think it may get a more respected ear here.

Did anyone else think the driving standards today was shockingly poor? Not just Plato but also Neal, Collard as well as various others.

This nudge to pass thing has got to cut out.

It wouldnt be tolerated in club racing, so why is it allowed in the BTCC? When you watch it it seems like you are just waiting for the leader to be punted.

If you cant pass without touching, then you cant pass at all.

Simon

With all due respect, nudging and nerfing has always been part of touring car racing. Okay, punting people off into the gravel is where I draw the line, but touring car racing has always involved the bumpers (or fenders if you're American).

It happens in WTCC, it happens in NASCAR, it happens in V8 Supercar. Heck, it happened in the "golden" period of BTCC nearly as much as it happens today.

I'd rather see that happening than watching boring DRS activated F1 passes anyway.

BTCC's not the best for it, but I wouldn't say it is the worst either.

[Bundesad1er]

JP was in the wrong and as usual he looks ridiculous for not owning up to his blatant shove on Newsham. I watched the incident from between Druids and Graham Hill bend, just up from Post 7. I got a great view of the shunt and it was clearly a deliberate shove to take the position. I am all for entertaining racing and in touring cars I expect to see some bumping and rubbing, but I don't expect a driver to get away that easily with taking a car out for position. He should be punished more severely. No club event would of allowed this type of racing. The fans behind me seemed to enjoy the incident, lots of JP fans at Brands and they enjoyed watching him shove Newsham off, maybe that's why BTCC has a good following? Not my kind of racing though. I don't think I will be volunteering for too many more BTCC events.

[Minicross424]

I see Jason has not showed up on here yet, we know he visits as he posted on here last year went he was moaning about the turbos.
I think the the whole meeting was a bit shocking re contact but I guess all the time Alan Gow turns a blind it will carry on.
It should of been a DSQ no question.
Its not right that some one who took out the leader in race one and nurfed the leader of race three out of the way should be leading the series.
Come on JP where are you now??

[Sodemo]

What I dislike is contact which means another driver runs wide or gets spun out. If two cars make contact whilst side by side, then thats fair game in my view. However contact which occurs bumper to bumper or front wing to rear wing is not on.

In fairness, blatant spin outs do get investigated, however its the nudges in the braking zone that seem "fair game". The car ahead is forced to run wide, then the car behind can get alongside or pass them on the exit. That is not on in my view. I seem to recall in 1998 at Brands Hatch, Anthony Reid got punished for doing exactly what Plato and Neal did to one another in race two. Reid ran into the back of Rydell at the Druids hairpin, then Reid got by, he went on to win the race. In the post race stewards process, the win was handed to Rydell. So what has changed since 1998, because back then this kind of thing was obviously viewed differently?

Video here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSHiL...0FEBFBE06BA0id

[Thaw Daggerslash]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

What I dislike is contact which means another driver runs wide or gets spun out. If two cars make contact whilst side by side, then thats fair game in my view. However contact which occurs bumper to bumper or front wing to rear wing is not on.

In fairness, blatant spin outs do get investigated, however its the nudges in the braking zone that seem "fair game". The car ahead is forced to run wide, then the car behind can get alongside or pass them on the exit. That is not on in my view. I seem to recall in 1998 at Brands Hatch, Anthony Reid got punished for doing exactly what Plato and Neal did to one another in race two. Reid ran into the back of Rydell at the Druids hairpin, then Reid got by, he went on to win the race. In the post race stewards process, the win was handed to Rydell. So what has changed since 1998, because back then this kind of thing was obviously viewed differently?

Video here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSHiL...0FEBFBE06BA0id

Ah, so BTCC was copying F1's example of punishing any driver for racing in a competitive and close manner?

I for one, am glad BTCC is not like F1 when it comes to penalties. Drive throughs for "avoidable" contact or whatever spoils the race. The only reason I think penalties should be handed out is if someone's done something generally dangerous or stupid.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Thaw Daggerslash

I for one, am glad BTCC is not like F1 when it comes to penalties. Drive throughs for "avoidable" contact or whatever spoils the race.

There's a simple remedy to that problem, isn't there? If it's "avoidable" it shouldn't happen. . .

[SteveLevin]

I'm a Plato fan but I cringed at that pass. I understand the sentiment and having a run on Newsham, but really, there was no way that was going to end without tears.

As far as Plato on Jordan, well, if we penalized that we'd have to take away just about every Matt Neal win on the short course, wouldn't we?

Steve

[Thaw Daggerslash]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

There's a simple remedy to that problem, isn't there? If it's "avoidable" it shouldn't happen. . .

Indeed, it'd be avoidable if both of them had stayed in bed rather than going racing! :P

It's only inevitable nudging and nerfing will take place in racing, particularly touring cars, and if you penalised people for every contact...well, the stewards would have a very long evening.

[barnettracing]

Originally Posted by Thaw Daggerslash

It's only inevitable nudging and nerfing will take place in racing, particularly touring cars...

Um, I know you've partly qualified this by saying 'particularly in touring cars' but, that is ridiculous. Nudging and nerfing shouldn't be inevitable in racing; you certainly wouldn't have tried the same move that JP used on AJ in a single-seater.

Just because there has 'always' been contact in touring car racing, why does it have to continue that way?

[Thaw Daggerslash]

Originally Posted by barnettracing

Um, I know you've partly qualified this by saying 'particularly in touring cars' but, that is ridiculous. Nudging and nerfing shouldn't be inevitable in racing; you certainly wouldn't have tried the same move that JP used on AJ in a single-seater.

Just because there has 'always' been contact in touring car racing, why does it have to continue that way?

Uh, they're not racing in single seaters. They have bumpers...

No, I joke. I know what you're saying - I like to see a clean, perfectly executed overtake as much as the next guy, but in saloon car racing what do you expect? They're not fragile little single seaters, and because they can get away with it it's expected. It's part and parcel of BTCC racing.

I'd hate to see a championship where every nudge or nerf was penalised. I think Plato was definitely in the wrong when he punted Newsham off in race one, but as for nudging into the back of other cars - I'm totally okay with that. It has always happened. Heck, that clip someone else posted of that Muller overtake was set up because one car nudged into the back of another at the previous corner.

To clarify: I don't want to see dirty or dangerous driving, but using the bumpers has always been part of touring car racing, no matter what anyone says. I don't see why everyone's so shocked when something like that happens. It seems now, on this forum without fail after every BTCC round, there's people calling for X driver to be banned, or stewards to penalise more drivers.

Touring car racing has always had a reputation of featuring some...robust racing. Sure, it is not the purest form of motorsport ever, it is not the cleanest, but it is exciting and affordable for the fans to see. Maybe you think the championship is developing into a bit of an expensive demolition derby - and whilst I can see why you maybe feel like that, I disagree.

No doubt as is always the way if touring car drivers didn't use their bumpers people would start complaining how there was hardly any overtaking. Look at DTM - never nearly as much body contact, but often their races are as dull as anything.