Audi LMP1 Discussion

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

In Spa Dieter Gass will take over the role of Wolfgang Ullrich:

So there goes the man who gets more TV air time than anyone/anything else in the entire series... how will ACO now fill up time in their six hour broadcast?

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/newsmarch12.html has a detailed comparison of the different aero configurations that Audi has at its disposal for Spa.

At Spa Audi is using the same aero on the ultra and the etron quattro. Just compare the rear wing end plates on these pictures:

[alexkiller8]

this is not surprinsing, ulrich said some time ago that the ultra and the etron would share the same 2012 updated bodywork; also the weight destribution is the same because in the ultra car have been placed some weight ballasts on the front to "simulate" the presence of hybrid system. Honestly i think that in fast track like spa and le mans, the performance difference between ultra and etron will be really poor, maybe in a wet race the etron will have a better handling during the reacceleration because of a momentary 4x4 traction.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by alexkiller8

this is not surprinsing, ulrich said some time ago that the ultra and the etron would share the same 2012 updated bodywork

On the pictures that Audi issued before the race, the ultra and e-tron quattro had different aero. See http://www.mulsannescorner.com/newsmarch12.html for a comparison.

[alexkiller8]

i saw those pics, it just may mean that will be used different bodywork for some race during the year.

[chernaudi]

It's the same as earlier this year when Audi showed the "Ultra" wrap scheme on one of their 2011 cars earmarked for Sebring.

I believe that Audi intends on running the e-tron and Ultra in the same basic areo spec, and that the #2 Audi shown in the recent photos seems to be unfinished, meaning that Audi might not have all their HD bodywork built up yet, as it had the possible HD nose, but ran the LM rear deck/engine cover, though that seemed to be the only piece missing.

But it's a bit odd that Audi have the Castol sponsorship on the Ultra R18s, but not on the e-trons. I wonder what the intent is there?

[gwyllion]

In https://www.audi-mediaservices.com/p...tlichkeit.html Dr. Ullrich confirms that the e-tron quattro system was first tested in a R8 GT production car.

An Audi R8 GT provided the base for the first trials. “In the initial phase of the concept development for the R18 e-tron quattro when we wanted to get a trial vehicle off the ground as quickly as possible we came up with the idea of using the R8 GT as the base for it,” says Dr. Ullrich. “The implementation was possible at relatively high levels of efficiency and we managed to package all the subsequent original components of the R18 e-tron quattro at the front end of the R8. That’s how our prototype for initial set-up and concept work was created.”

[TF110]

I asked before whether anyone felt Audi would try for an R8 E-tron in GTE if allowed in the future. I think it's a possibility, and seeing stories like this where they have tested a race technology in a street car makes me believe it more.

[gwyllion]

Hybrid systems will not be allowed in GTE for a while. Nor does Audi have plans to build a proper GTE car at the moment.

The plan for a GTE Hybrid category appears to have been opposed by major manufacturers, as does a plan to have GT3 cars in place of GT2. That, apparently, sent Corvette into orbit, and its threat to withdraw from the category seems to have been taken seriously.

source: http://fbm.zinio.com/reader.jsp?issu...t&prev=si&p=98

[gwyllion]

Treluyer confirms that Audi recently tested at Paul Ricard.

Time has flown by since we got back from the U.S. After a really positive endurance test at Paul Ricard I took the scenic route back to my home in Gordes. There's nothing better to clear your mind than 300 kilometres ‘off road' with a few mates. It took us two days and we had a great time.

...

This is the first competitive outing for the all new R18 e-tron quattro, the hybrid version of the 2012 LMP car, and we are definitely going to learn a lot over the course of the weekend. We have already done 30 hours of simulations so we should not have any problem completing the six hours, though nobody is totally immune from gremlins.

source: http://www.endurance-info.com/versio...cus-10572.html

[TF110]

Possibly not GTE, but surely a hybrid GT series would be ideal for car makes trying to promote it.

[chernaudi]

Audi drivers now claim that the 2012 R18s can take Radillon corner flat out, something that the R10, R15, either 908, or even the 2011 R18 could do. Better aero, or a side effect of reduced power, or that the chassis (weight distribution) is better on the 2012 cars?

[TF110]

Where did you hear that from? Is there an article or something or driver quotes?

[gwyllion]

chernaudi got that statement from http://www.lemanslive.com/en/2012/05...llon-flat-out/

Romain Dumas was surrounded by a cluster of journalists, so we joined the group and listened in… “The new R18 ultra is completely different to the R18 TDI,” says the 2010 Le Mans winner. “For example, after six laps I realised I could take the ‘Raidillon’ sequence flat out. In the R10 TDI, you had to brake slightly, and you still had to lift off the accelerator a little in the R15 and even in last year’s R18 TDI. My new team-mate Marc Gené didn’t believe me at first because he had never taken it flat out in the Peugeot 908 either. It should be fun through the Porsche Curves at Le Mans!”

McNish states that they had to adapt their driving style for the e-tron quattro. Treluyer also mentioned this in http://endurance-info.com/version2/n...cus-10572.html

Finally, the article explains that the Audi team is split in two camps, with separate briefings. This was also mention on RLM during warmup.

Both the ‘ultra’ and the ‘e-tron quattro’ seem to have won over the Audi drivers. However, the team is now divided into two camps: on one side, there are the engineers and mechanics who follow the hybrid prototypes and, on the other, those who work on the ‘ultra’ versions. The technical briefings and debriefings are also separate…

[CTD]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

chernaudi got that statement from http://www.lemanslive.com/en/2012/05...llon-flat-out/


McNish states that they had to adapt their driving style for the e-tron quattro. Treluyer also mentioned this in http://endurance-info.com/version2/n...cus-10572.html

Finally, the article explains that the Audi team is split in two camps, with separate briefings. This was also mention on RLM during warmup.

Audi Team 1, Audi Team 2
Not very Audi-ish

[TF110]

So this is the sequence of turns exiting Eua Rogue?

[chernaudi]

Seems to be just that--the Eau Rouge/Raidilon complex.

And I think that the splitting of teams probably has a lot to do with Dumas and Bernhard being Porsche drivers on load to Audi, and Audi doesn't want them to take too many secrets to Porsche--or maybe some of the engineers are on loan from Porsche as well.

Still, it's a bit odd, as the e-tron and the Ultra are 99% the same aside from one having they hybrid system, and one having chunks of lead or tungsten steel where the hybrid stuff would be. Could also suggest that if all goes well at Spa and LM that Allan and whoever his teammate will be (Tom or Dindo obviously) will get an e-tron like Ben and Andre have.

It also seems that the e-tron does have an advantage over the Ultra in the wet, at least in the warm up session.

[alexkiller8]

if they can run full throttle the eau rouge, it means that the car will go really faster than last year on porsche curves and in other hot sports like tetre rouge and indianapolis. In my opinion to drive the 2012 r18 ultra/etron should be easier because the weight ratio is less unbalanced to the rear, letting the driver to have still a better feeling on the car during turns.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Seems to be just that--the Eau Rouge/Raidilon complex.

And I think that the splitting of teams probably has a lot to do with Dumas and Bernhard being Porsche drivers on load to Audi, and Audi doesn't want them to take too many secrets to Porsche--or maybe some of the engineers are on loan from Porsche as well.

Still, it's a bit odd, as the e-tron and the Ultra are 99% the same aside from one having they hybrid system, and one having chunks of lead or tungsten steel where the hybrid stuff would be. Could also suggest that if all goes well at Spa and LM that Allan and whoever his teammate will be (Tom or Dindo obviously) will get an e-tron like Ben and Andre have.

It also seems that the e-tron does have an advantage over the Ultra in the wet, at least in the warm up session.

I think you have missed something .
Tom and Allan has been planned all along to drive the e-tron in the WEC!?

[gwyllion]

Sam has updated http://www.racecar-engineering.com/c...-tron-quattro/ with some additional pictures.

I am amazed how small the flywheel accumulator is:


A closeup of the front drive shaft:

[MihokS5]

You can see the R18's have rear cameras mounted in the left cockpit ceiling area

[alexkiller8]

the hybrid system on the front wheels seems that can just create understeering and braking problems than advantages...

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by alexkiller8

the hybrid system on the front wheels seems that can just create understeering and braking problems than advantages...

During the winter the drivers always praised how the hybrid system improves stability under braking.

I guess Audi just went on the wrong path with the setup on the #2. During the practice sessions the hybrid #1 was always on top.

Also do not forget that the #3 gained a lot thanks to two safety cars and by switching to slicks earlier than the other cars.

[chernaudi]

It seems that the e-tron quattro is the car to have in the wet, especially if it's pretty bad out, but as it stands right now on a drying or dry track, there's little to choose between the e-tron and the Ultra--any differences in speed between the two on a dry track seems to be down to the individual drivers as apposed to anything with the vehicles themselves. Things may be different for Le Mans and onwards, but right now it seems that the e-tron has the edge in the rain, but in the dry, the performance overall of the two different cars is basically the same and depends on chassis set up and who's driving.

[gwyllion]

I had the impression that the ultra was better in dry conditions. The better balance leads to more consistent lap times and more confidence for the drivers.

It must be encouraging for Audi that none of the cars had reliability issues all weekend and that the drivers made no mistakes in traffic.