[LM24] 2014 Le Mans Legends?

[nobster]

Absolutely right Victor, I would like to see those 935, 936, renaults, alfa's, rondeau, de cadenet, and we could go on and on, cars for a change

[Richard117]

Originally Posted by NelisB

Maybe it's because both have organizations behind them that coordinate their racing. Would make it a lot easier to get the old gt1s if there was a coordinated effort behind them.

I guess that's indeed the reason, Group C for example runs a full championship.
But that doesn't change my wish for something else

[lemansfan]

Originally Posted by nobster

Absolutely right Victor, I would like to see those 935, 936, renaults, alfa's, rondeau, de cadenet, and we could go on and on, cars for a change

CER ( Classic Endurance Racing ) could be the Answer . But i think the Grid is to big

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by lemansfan

CER ( Classic Endurance Racing ) could be the Answer . But i think the Grid is to big

Isn't the '49-'65 Legends grid always around 60-70 cars? Just checked a CER entry list from last year, it had 61 cars on it, so there shouldn't be a problem of grid numbers.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by GT6

I think that the problem with the GT1 cars from the nineties would also be how many are actually around in private hands to actually go racing

Frankly I'd be happy to watch a handful of them.

[Mal]

Why cant they have a multi class legends race or a broader period! - if you did a 1980 - 2000 period it would be interesting to see what would turn up.

[Aysedasi]

I do think they need to somehow mix up the 'formula' - for those who go each year it does get pretty 'samey'....

[GT6]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I do think they need to somehow mix up the 'formula' - for those who go each year it does get pretty 'samey'....

Agree a good mix of cars would be nice

[thetool]

Originally Posted by Simmi

It's also worth saying - if anyone knows where you can still get the Spark 1:18 model of the XJR-14 Le Mans test car - I'd be interested.

They all seem to have gone.

Occasionally one shows up on ebay. It was a very limited release, I was fortunate to get hold of one (which I will never part with!). They go for silly money these days, seen £250+

[Gingers4Justice]

I'd quite like to see the pre-war cars again. I know they may not be the most spectacular, but I love them to bits - maybe they just don't have a big enough pull.

The ACO won't want to mix things up too much - the Le Mans Classic continues to grow in statue and I guess you could argue that with the 24 Hours being big enough already, it doesn't need to take away anything from the Classic. The Group C/post-war alternation is enough to keep the enthusiasts happy but not too much to the point where you wouldn't bother with the Classic.

On a slightly different note, reading about the 908 which failed to sell at auction being offered with two years "engineering support", I've been wondering if it's realistic to expect to see the post-modern LMPs race historically. They're not the sort of cars you can tow on a trailer, turn the keys, and drive out of the pit lane. The success of the Group C/GTP series, and EuroBOSS, gives me hope that that the technology needed to race them will become much simpler as well and that maybe in the 2020s, we'll be seeing R8s, R18s, TS030s, Speed 8s and Pescarolos on the Saturday morning of race day.

I don't think we'll ever see cars from the 90s in a legends race. There's a reason why there's not been any sustained attempt at getting them to race - there's just not enough demand in my opinion. The post-Group C period only gave us two iconic years in 1998-9, with the prototypes of the years before being thoroughly unspectacular, if incredibly pretty pieces of machinery which I'm sure are little more than collector's items.

The memorable cars of the period either flipped themselves out of existence or currently sit in a museum or collecting dust in deep in the bowls of facilities owned by the manufacturers which raced them.

[Mal]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

I'd quite like to see the pre-war cars again. I know they may not be the most spectacular, but I love them to bits - maybe they just don't have a big enough pull.

The ACO won't want to mix things up too much - the Le Mans Classic continues to grow in statue and I guess you could argue that with the 24 Hours being big enough already, it doesn't need to take away anything from the Classic. The Group C/post-war alternation is enough to keep the enthusiasts happy but not too much to the point where you wouldn't bother with the Classic.

On a slightly different note, reading about the 908 which failed to sell at auction being offered with two years "engineering support", I've been wondering if it's realistic to expect to see the post-modern LMPs race historically. They're not the sort of cars you can tow on a trailer, turn the keys, and drive out of the pit lane. The success of the Group C/GTP series, and EuroBOSS, gives me hope that that the technology needed to race them will become much simpler as well and that maybe in the 2020s, we'll be seeing R8s, R18s, TS030s, Speed 8s and Pescarolos on the Saturday morning of race day.

I don't think we'll ever see cars from the 90s in a legends race. There's a reason why there's not been any sustained attempt at getting them to race - there's just not enough demand in my opinion. The post-Group C period only gave us two iconic years in 1998-9, with the prototypes of the years before being thoroughly unspectacular, if incredibly pretty pieces of machinery which I'm sure are little more than collector's items.

The memorable cars of the period either flipped themselves out of existence or currently sit in a museum or collecting dust in deep in the bowls of facilities owned by the manufacturers which raced them.

I am not convinced that cars like the Mazda 787b or the Pug 905 were 'thoroughly unspectacular' - granted the early to mid '90's were not the best racing years, but there were some pretty good cars. The GT1 era could produce some interesting historic racers as the compulsory production of road going versions mean that there are more cars around which may be relatively cheap to run as historic racers.

[GT6]

I think all periods had interesting cars but once moved away from the big budgets of manufactures it will be very difficult for private individuals to fund and run the later cars and therefore i doubt we will ever see them race again

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by Mal

I am not convinced that cars like the Mazda 787b or the Pug 905 were 'thoroughly unspectacular' - granted the early to mid '90's were not the best racing years, but there were some pretty good cars. The GT1 era could produce some interesting historic racers as the compulsory production of road going versions mean that there are more cars around which may be relatively cheap to run as historic racers.

I meant the post Group-C prototypes - the flat-bottomed WSCs, which were for the most part slower than current LMP2 machinery. Think Kremer K8 - lovely car to look at, but it doesn't blow your socks off.

The interesting cars from the period were the GTs - but as I say, there aren't that many of them if you think about it.

Nothing unspectacular about the Mazda or the Pug....

[Aysedasi]

Give me one Pug 905 and one Toyota TS010 and I'd probably be pretty happy......

[Victor_RO]

I hope Bob Berridge is mad enough to bring the XJR-14. And borrow Nic "Not a Muppet" Minassian from SMP/AF Corse for a couple of hours on race week for some crazy heroics.

[Aysedasi]

Sounds good to me

[Mal]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

I hope Bob Berridge is mad enough to bring the XJR-14. And borrow Nic "Not a Muppet" Minassian from SMP/AF Corse for a couple of hours on race week for some crazy heroics.

That was awesome to watch at the Silverstone Classic, last year. I watched it from the end of the wing, inside of Abbey. It think it lapped the entire field bar one in the race.

[Gingers4Justice]

Could be a bit embarassing if a car in the legends race sets a quick lap time than than the pole for the main gig!

It's perfectly possible if you put a 905 or an XJR-14 in the right hands. These cars were pulling low lap times when the circuit was probably marginally slower.

[whitemr2]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Could be a bit embarassing if a car in the legends race sets a quick lap time than than the pole for the main gig

Are you serious! Could that be true?

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by whitemr2

Are you serious! Could that be true?

Unlikely, but a committed lap would put them among the LMP1 privateers.

[NelisB]

No one really knows because the xjr14 never raced at Le mans. But I would say it wouldn't be to far off the pole time.

[Aysedasi]

But the 'Legends' cars are rarely peddled hard enough to risk reputational damage to the main field. I guess Berridge could be an exception......

[Gingers4Justice]

It's perfectly possible. Minassian's 1:36.7 at the Silverstone Classic race in the XJR-14 was comfortably faster than McNish's best of 1:42.7, although it should be noted that the Jag set its lap-time on the 'faster' lay out at Vale, though it's probably not worth five seconds.

The Peugeots set times in the early 3:20s - I think we got a 3:22 in '92? That was when the circuit was arguably much slower. While since then we've got a longer and slower layout at the Esses and a much tighter Dunlop Chicane, the curbing at the Ford Chicane and Arnage has become much faster, and the cars reach Mulsanne corner quicker due to the flattened hump. The track surface is also probably much faster today.

What makes it unlikely is, as Ayse says, these cars aren't always peddled hard and it requires a very good driver to get them running even close to their original speed. The set up of the car is also quite complex and the perfect set up with such limited practice time at such a specific track is probably beyond any historic racing team.

Still, it would be a sight to behold! The 905 of the XJR-14 would make getting out of bed on the Saturday a great deal easier.

[Mal]

Quick Nik was certainly peddling hard at the Classic

[lemansfan]

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