[LM24] Le Mans History (Track)

[Nick Woodbury]

The past few weeks I seem to have developed an obsession with the Circuit De La Sarthe historically...not only the history of the winners but the numerous physical changes to the track over the decades. Watching Mike Hawthorne's brilliant onboard commentary from 1956, I noticed a gap in the earth walls just before the track gradually banks left and up the hill to the first Dunlop bridge. I have noted that gap in the back of my mind for a number of years by watching historical Le Mans footage and have always wondered if this space in the road is indeed the disused section of public road (Perhaps only during the 24 hour race at that time?) that once connected the pit straight to the long stretch of road that ran though the town and eventually led to the Pontlieue hairpin. For anyone here who may have extensive historical knowledge of the circuit I want to confirm if this is indeed a possibility. I have some examples to help. The first photo is from Hawthorne's onboard poorly marked in red, second is a news reel from the British Pathe (You can clearly see the void on the far left), and finally a Google Earth image (with some shoddy Microsoft Paint work) of me trying to trace the possible connection between the current course and the public road itself circa 2012.

[Gingers4Justice]

The only possibility is that is the bit of road which lead to Pontlieue. Though the hair-pin was abandoned in the late 1920s, most of that route towards the city was still used, albeit with the hairpin itself chopped off.

The Dunlop curve and the Esses were the first bit of purpose-built track, which I believe were added in 1932, to make the track a little safer and to make the Mulsanne straight that bit shorter.

The Curve obviously has to leave the oringinal lay-out, and that piece of track heading straight on in those two pictures must be it. Looks like that was still public road in the 1950s.

Although at some point, the Esses too were used as public road. I found some footage of that somewhere, I'll see if I can dig it up.

[Nick Woodbury]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Although at some point, the Esses too were used as public road. I found some footage of that somewhere, I'll see if I can dig it up.

Indeed, upon viewing even more historical footage/images from the 24, it would even seem that small strip remained up until the late 80's.

This photo here from the SpeedHunters website and their many articles on the great 24 hour race, vaguely shows that there is still something that remains resembling that short connecting strip, although it looks severely neglected.

(Directly underneath the CIBIÉ advertisment board.

[vincegail]

Different track layouts:
http://www.virtua-lm.com/lemans/history.php?y=21_28

[Gingers4Justice]

That's a cracking photo!

That Hawthorn clip is a wonderful snapshot in time, but I find it hard to come to terms with his matter-of-fact tone to the track changes following that terrible accident a year before - an accident he was involved in. He just notes in passing that there was a "terrible accident which occurred here last year".

And those changes for 1956 were so minimal that it scarcely looks safer for the spectators in the Masion Blanche area! They would have prevented an identical crash from happening, but the spectators were still incredibly close to the circuit at high speed.

Totally different attitude to death in that era, which is hardly surprising given what happened in the previous decade. The track still bared the scars of the WWII at that point. You'll notice at the end of the Mulsanne straight, the trees are very young and some hadn't even grown yet. That's because that area was cleared by the Nazis for a Prison Camp.

[Aysedasi]

Fascinating stuff. My first Le Mans was '86 and I have no recollection of the road leading off to Pontlieu being as obvious as it seems in these pics....

[tonypowe]

Great pictures, interesting to try tracing the track back to the original road to Pontliue. (Difficult to do on the modern road eh Ayse )
On the Hawthorn commentary I think I read he was pretty cut up on the day of the crash and didn't even want to get back in the car so maybe he had distanced himself from it in his mind to stop thinking about it. Plus is it possible the court case was still going on? Clearly speculation on my part for sure we will never know.

[Aysedasi]

I just couldn't believe how long it took James and I to find the Pontlieu hairpin last year Tony. And it was only once we got there that I realised how many times I must have driven right by it in the past....


Pontlieu Hairpin - 2013 Style!

The More Artistic Version!

[nobster]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Fascinating stuff. My first Le Mans was '86 and I have no recollection of the road leading off to Pontlieu being as obvious as it seems in these pics....

I grew up with the Michel Vaillant comic books and in the one of the first books the run off / road was used, i think it was in nr. 13 at the start ( nr. 13 aan de start )

[Aysedasi]

Back to the issue of the road to Pontlieu, I spotted this in an Ebay advert. It apparently dates from 1965.....

[Adam43]

How close do you think the current start finish straight is to the original?
When the changes where made after 1955 and then the pit wall introduced and then 1991, do you think it ended up being offset slightly? Maybe not even the whole width of the straight?
Come to think of it, I wonder how the width has changed over the years?

[AllonFS]

Blimey, I've seen old photos of the hairpin, but that photo of yours from last year shows how incredibly tight it was. Imagine 12 hours as a driver in the 1920s steering a sodding great Bentley round that.

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I just couldn't believe how long it took James and I to find the Pontlieu hairpin last year Tony. And it was only once we got there that I realised how many times I must have driven right by it in the past....


Pontlieu Hairpin - 2013 Style!

The More Artistic Version!

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Adam43

How close do you think the current start finish straight is to the original?

Well, Clausager says that the original pits were positioned 'midway between White House and Pontlieu' and I assume that the start/finish straight was in much the same place. Until 1925 anyway......

[claude2cv]

Looking around via Google suggests that the pits have always been in the same place, along with the start/finish line. The reference to Clausager has reminded me that I need to go back and re-read that book and order the series of History of Le Mans, might need more bookshelves :-)

[Aysedasi]

They weren't in 1925......

[claude2cv]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

They weren't in 1925......

Of course, but they were in one place before and went back there and have been in the same place every since. As what I could find refers to a horse race course, is this the hippodrome which is still on site or somewhere else?

[Nick Woodbury]

I have once again dug through the vast reaches of the inter tubes and discovered this AMAZING website that posses several galleries from past Le Mans races dating from 1970 and all the way up to 1979.

http://www.endurance-photos.org/cate...-soixante-dix/

One photo in particular from this photographer's 1970 album reminded me of a few old buildings that used to line the track way back in the day, before they were removed due to circuit updates.

This building shown here littered with British Petroleum advertisement signs is a building that I have always wondered about. What was the function of this building? Timing and Scoring? VIP Boxes? Just some random Frenchman's estate that just so happened to line one of the most famous circuits in the world?



Judging from many of the classic footages that I have seen over the storied history of this particular section of the track, this building remained up until the completion of the current pit complex (1991?) that we see today.





This one from 1972 with the awesome Matra Simca V12 streaming past frame.

[GT6]

Some good pictures there, slightly before my first visit in the mid eighties

[PascaLM]

Yes, I think this building remained until the new pits were built. It was used for the official timing and laps counting before the introduction of electronic timing devices. Both electronic and manual timing were used together for several years, if I recall correctly.
While teams timing was taking place just after Mulsanne corner.
Simon, do you confirm ?

[GT6]

I think when i first went there were old fashion tv screens on poles dotted around and hourly sheets available from the aco booths on the pit straight and in the old village. I remember the old building and the opening of the new starship enterprize as we used to call it

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Nick Woodbury

What year was this from?

It's amazing. I first went in 1990 and you kind of think it is the same, but it has evolved little by little every year.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by GT6

I think when i first went there were old fashion tv screens on poles dotted around and hourly sheets available from the aco booths on the pit straight and in the old village. I remember the old building and the opening of the new starship enterprize as we used to call it

I certainly remember going to the little open wooden 'hut' in the Village and collecting the hourly sheets back in the latter part of the 80's.

[GT6]

But do you remember those little screens with green on black info which seemed to be updated at random i think they only lasted 2 years they looked like they should have been attached to an early PC

[claude2cv]

Originally Posted by PascaLM

Yes, I think this building remained until the new pits were built. It was used for the official timing and laps counting before the introduction of electronic timing devices. Both electronic and manual timing were used together for several years, if I recall correctly.
While teams timing was taking place just after Mulsanne corner.
Simon, do you confirm ?

My first trip was 1980, so remember the signalling pits at Mulsanne. I thought that actual timing was done at the pit lane and transmitted to the signalling pit for display when the car got that far round the track. At that time I remember that commentary was over the tannoy \(No Radio Le Mans then)and in French, with an hourly update in English. You could tell the English as they would be gathered round the tannoy at each update time. I do remember the lists given away in the village, the local papers used to make big deal about having the photo of the start as a poster.

One thing I need to do is get my slides down from the attic, scan them and upload them to somewhere accessible, no point in them being hidden when they are now historic. Fortunately a friend recently passed on to me a scanner which an handle 35mm slides. Might be something for Aysedasi's historic section ? Probably not too easy to have a slide show at the meeting

Sean

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by GT6

But do you remember those little screens with green on black info which seemed to be updated at random i think they only lasted 2 years they looked like they should have been attached to an early PC

Possibly Simon - your memory is probably better than mine....

Originally Posted by claude2cv

My first trip was 1980, so remember the signalling pits at Mulsanne. I thought that actual timing was done at the pit lane and transmitted to the signalling pit for display when the car got that far round the track. At that time I remember that commentary was over the tannoy \(No Radio Le Mans then)and in French, with an hourly update in English. You could tell the English as they would be gathered round the tannoy at each update time. I do remember the lists given away in the village, the local papers used to make big deal about having the photo of the start as a poster.

One thing I need to do is get my slides down from the attic, scan them and upload them to somewhere accessible, no point in them being hidden when they are now historic. Fortunately a friend recently passed on to me a scanner which an handle 35mm slides. Might be something for Aysedasi's historic section ? Probably not too easy to have a slide show at the meeting

Sean

I think you're right about how the signalling pits worked Sean. The times were phoned through, as I recall.