IMSA Race TUSC Round 5: Detroit

[Breitling24]

This race left me feeling... numb. Just wasn't feeling anything. Street course-itis, I believe. Or maybe an abcsessed TUSC.

[Ginaro Zukovsky]

I have to say the live timing on IMSA's Android app leaves a lot to be desired - why the hell doesn't it have gaps between each car? It would be a lot more useful than last/best lap...

[Christian Mogami]

ESM report:

The DP tires ruined their day!

They was like three seconds slower than the DP the first three to four laps until the tire pressure came up!This was a little surprise for them because they didn't have this problem in practice and qual.

They are going to push for separate tires from DP next year or make them softer next year.

[Maelochs]

After seeing all the problems with BoP the series has had so far, I'd say car-specific tires is a really goo d idea. The DPs already run a tire designed for the chassis---let the P2s do the same and don't mess with the power any more (except maybe for Daytona.)

That would emphasize the P2s' strengths without limiting the DPs any more, and without risking the P2 motors, and also without making each chassis type a clone of the other.

If the P2s are supposed to handle, let them handle. Further, the increased grip in the first few laps of each stint might mean some P2s can get ahead of some DPs and hold them up instead of the other way around.

Either that, turn the tables and make the DPs run on a P2-specific tire which they would likely eat in half a stint.

[Lagunaseca_4life]

Just watched on dvr. The beginning was a run of the mill dull street race.i think the first caution was needed necause you can't have that much water on the racing line when every one was on slicks.the same thing happened in the pwc race this morning and it pretty much destroyed a mustang that spun the same way as the ngt and also damaged a Lamborghini when it spun.with the power and faster speeds of these cars their lucky there wasn't a bigger wreck that would of ended the race.and the second caution well really I guess they wanted to fix the tires so yea....I mean Le Mans last year also needed barriers fixed after being hit.


Also anybody know what happened to the 45 at the end? I can't believe pump ell got out of the car on hot track with cars that close,just sounds like a bad idea IMO.

The last 30 minutes were good,the racing was there.unlike long beach where pruett just ran away and the was no racing for position.and gtd is intense,I like it.i liked it at laguna and think its fun to watch.yea they'll cause trouble but some of the ams racing together are good and when the pros drive it's really good racing.but I really don't like the blocking from the 90 and the 10.i mean the second to last lap Taylor pushed barbosa out to the wall to where barbosa had to back out when he was already along side the outside.and the 10 also pulled the same inside move on the 90.

[BullMan]

That's how DPs have always raced. Just smash the other guy out of the way. They used to destroy the GT cars and nothing was ever done until last year when Paul Walter took over.

[Lagunaseca_4life]

Originally Posted by BullMan

That's how DPs have always raced. Just smash the other guy out of the way. They used to destroy the GT cars and nothing was ever done until last year when Paul Walter took over.

Honestly I'm surprised it took this long for them to race Rolex style.it was one of my biggest worries of tusc before the season.and they did race relatively clean the first few races but it seems laguna just let them go crazy since,but hey makes for good late night highlights don't it?

[Danathar]

Originally Posted by Christian Mogami

ESM report:



The DP tires ruined their day!



They was like three seconds slower than the DP the first three to four laps until the tire pressure came up!This was a little surprise for them because they didn't have this problem in practice and qual.



They are going to push for separate tires from DP next year or make them softer next year.

The real problem will be 2015. The series runs a REAL risk of having no p2 cars at all unless something more fundamental changes like you describe.

That would be a disaster

[RWill2073]

@maalox: I agree with the idea of running different compound tires, or car specific tires. If they went that route they might find they'd actually have to give the dps that 10-15 HP back. Would be a much better thing all around.

[jasonjessica09]

This race was certainly missing something without GTLM being there. But its that Pre Le Mans period so its understanable. So I think Detroit would have been better for it be to P/LMPC only. P/GTD just does not work. To Grand Am'ish. I am pushing for IMSA to make Detroit P/LMPC for 2015 and having Lime Rock return for a GTD only round. This would be a better way for fill out those pre-Le Mans weeks where you don't have GTLM around.

[BudLightJaguar]

So there will be no stream for the next PC/Lites dual race? Not that I'd bother to watch a race from that horrible Kansas roval.

[Cheyne]

Originally Posted by BudLightJaguar

So there will be no stream for the next PC/Lites dual race? Not that I'd bother to watch a race from that horrible Kansas roval.

Nothing, just like the CTSCC race at Lime Rock.

Cheyne

[ttdriver2009]

Originally Posted by Christian Mogami

ESM report:

The DP tires ruined their day!

They was like three seconds slower than the DP the first three to four laps until the tire pressure came up!This was a little surprise for them because they didn't have this problem in practice and qual.

They are going to push for separate tires from DP next year or make them softer next year.

I'm not surprised that ESM said this. I mean, when you go down nine to twelve seconds after a NASCAR yellow, there is no way you can even expect to win. Since ESM came out and publicly said this, I wonder if they might just pull out at the end of this year and go run in PWC or WEC. It's sad that it has got to this point. Really sad.

[RWill2073]

It is really sad that a race weekend thread for the "premier" sports car series in the us only reached eight pages. And that is not a criticism of the fans (that are left).

[Dyson Mazda]

Originally Posted by ttdriver2009

I'm not surprised that ESM said this. I mean, when you go down nine to twelve seconds after a NASCAR yellow, there is no way you can even expect to win. Since ESM came out and publicly said this, I wonder if they might just pull out at the end of this year and go run in PWC or WEC. It's sad that it has got to this point. Really sad.

Stole this from another forum thanks to one John Vincent:

I pulled out a section right after a yellow (lap 39 to 43) and added up the overall lap times (Sum). These cars pitted and put on new cold tires.

Car Class Driver Lap Time
1 P Ryan Dalziel 39 01:34.9
1 P Ryan Dalziel 40 01:30.6
1 P Ryan Dalziel 41 01:29.4
1 P Ryan Dalziel 42 01:28.5
1 P Ryan Dalziel 43 01:27.8
Sum 07:31.2

2 P Johannes van Overbeek 39 01:30.4
2 P Johannes van Overbeek 40 01:29.3
2 P Johannes van Overbeek 41 01:28.6
2 P Johannes van Overbeek 42 01:27.8
2 P Johannes van Overbeek 43 01:27.7
Sum 07:23.7

5 P Joao Barbosa 39 01:33.3
5 P Joao Barbosa 40 01:30.2
5 P Joao Barbosa 41 01:28.7
5 P Joao Barbosa 42 01:27.5
5 P Joao Barbosa 43 01:27.3
Sum 07:27.1

10 P Ricky Taylor 39 01:31.2
10 P Ricky Taylor 40 01:29.0
10 P Ricky Taylor 41 01:28.7
10 P Ricky Taylor 42 01:28.0
10 P Ricky Taylor 43 01:28.3
Sum 07:25.3

42 P Olivier Pla 39 01:34.3
42 P Olivier Pla 40 01:30.2
42 P Olivier Pla 41 01:29.5
42 P Olivier Pla 42 01:28.8
42 P Olivier Pla 43 01:27.9
Sum 07:30.6

60 P Oswaldo Negri Jr 39 01:34.2
60 P Oswaldo Negri Jr 40 01:30.4
60 P Oswaldo Negri Jr 41 01:29.3
60 P Oswaldo Negri Jr 42 01:28.8
60 P Oswaldo Negri Jr 43 01:27.9
Sum 07:30.6

90 P Richard Westbrook 39 01:33.4
90 P Richard Westbrook 40 01:30.5
90 P Richard Westbrook 41 01:28.9
90 P Richard Westbrook 42 01:27.9
90 P Richard Westbrook 43 01:27.2
Sum 07:27.9

I have no idea where this 3 seconds a lap is coming from if the data above is correct

[Danske]

Originally Posted by Dyson Mazda

I have no idea where this 3 seconds a lap is coming from if the data above is correct

That looks like the data from IMSA's timing site for the race, checking lap 39. Just a small error in that JvO was technically a lap down at that point, so his "first" lap there is actually his second. But, you know, IMSA could have falsified all that data.

[rwintle]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

It is really sad that a race weekend thread for the "premier" sports car series in the us only reached eight pages. And that is not a criticism of the fans (that are left).

Quite. I didn't even make an effort, which is perhaps just me being pathetic, but honestly I can't muster up any excitement for it. Plus actually watching it live here is now impossible. Apparently Canada counts both as "not covered by the TV station showing it" and also as "part of the area covered by the TV station showing it, so no live streaming, sorry".

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by Dyson Mazda

Stole this from another forum thanks to one John Vincent:



I have no idea where this 3 seconds a lap is coming from if the data above is correct

you do not have to look at the lap times, only to see the number of positions lost in the starts for the P2 is enough to see the differences.

[Lagunaseca_4life]

Originally Posted by ttdriver2009

I'm not surprised that ESM said this. I mean, when you go down nine to twelve seconds after a NASCAR yellow, there is no way you can even expect to win. Since ESM came out and publicly said this, I wonder if they might just pull out at the end of this year and go run in PWC or WEC. It's sad that it has got to this point. Really sad.

NASCAR yellow? The first caution was needed to clean up the water.PWC extended a caution in the first race to clean the water,you must of seen the cars spinning and twitching in the tudor race going throughout the water.would you have wanted a local yellow there all race or a huge accident that would of ended the race? I thought the second caution wasn't going to happen but they needed to fix the barrier for safety I guess.every racing series calls cautions or extends cautions to fix barriers/tires from Le Mans to Indy.if the wec fia tracks didn't have miles of run off they probably would to.

From what I saw the p2s just had a bad day,even diazel said they were confused why they didn't have the pace from the days before.the gtd grid is a lot bigger than gtlm and there was more racing going on throughout that field with packs of cars clumping together.i saw dps forcing through and p2s getting massively blocked for corners by gtd's when they could of just moved out of the way but they had their own race going on,same thing happened in the PWC race to the gt drivers.

Yes the tire issue is affecting the P2s,but it's not as bad as before.some people just will never be happy this series.at this point the only thing Imsa can do is allow different compound tires for P2s or michelins but I don't think that will happen.tire warmers or ovens,will those really help?unfortunately it doesn't look like they are going to take power from dps anytime soon.but this is still the first season,and there's still time.i have bigger issues with the broadcasts and the early crap officiating.at least one car isn't running away from everybody race after race.

[Lagunaseca_4life]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

you do not have to look at the lap times, only to see the number of positions lost in the starts for the P2 is enough to see the differences.

You know I saw that and really didn't like it,not only in P,but gtd,PWC,and Indy car.i dont like how the start and restarts are enitiated at belle isle around a sweeping turn before the start line before the flag is even visible.caught people off guard and others jumping the starts.just looked wrong and a start was aborted in the Indy race.

[Dyson Mazda]

I am really glad this is the last street course race of the year. Sports cars were not meant to race on traditional North American street circuits. I think we are in for a very competitive second half of the season starting at Watkins Glen.

[ttdriver2009]

Originally Posted by Dyson Mazda

I have no idea where this 3 seconds a lap is coming from if the data above is correct

The three seconds per lap is what ESM posted on their race report right here on this forum:

ESM report:



The DP tires ruined their day!



They was like three seconds slower than the DP the first three to four laps until the tire pressure came up!This was a little surprise for them because they didn't have this problem in practice and qual.



They are going to push for separate tires from DP next year or make them softer next year.

I doubt that ESM would be releasing race reports like this if it wasn't correct. I have a feeling that some unknown person (who likes DP's) is just making up lap times without any real data. I'd rather believe a team like ESM. Good thing, is that they are pushing for better tires suited for their cars.

[Maelochs]

I don't know the source of that other info but this is taken directly from IMSA's T&S pages. People can interpret it any way they like but Lap 38 was the last lap under yellow, lap 39 the first under green, after the second long yellow to clean up after the Park Place Porsche hit the tires.

Cars are listed in running order; the only change I see is Oz Negri gaining one place in Ryan Dalziel, I had detailed notes but through a mistake in saving them deleted them, but I don't recall anything except Negri making a pass---I don't recall Dalziel sliding around or spinning his tires, but obviously if he couldn't put power down, Negri would have an edge. However, Negri never passed Pla.

In fact the only changes in running order until lap 57 (end of race) involved Barbosa bumping past Taylor, flatting, spinning, and ending up sixth.

[joeb]

Taylor was on fire on the restarts in a clear track. He was easily pulling a gap in everyone.

[Danske]

Originally Posted by ttdriver2009

The three seconds per lap is what ESM posted on their race report right here on this forum:
I doubt that ESM would be releasing race reports like this if it wasn't correct. I have a feeling that some unknown person (who likes DP's) is just making up lap times without any real data. I'd rather believe a team like ESM. Good thing, is that they are pushing for better tires suited for their cars.

The data is from imsatiming.com. As I said, JvO's first lap there should be a 1:34.58, as he was a lap down on the restart, so add seven more seconds to his total. Looks like they're comparing solely the first flying lap after the restart to Taylor's for the three seconds. They did take a few laps to get down to their normal lap time, but they weren't three seconds down for all of those laps to all the DPs, and only down that much to Taylor on the first lap.