Sportscar/GT (and Le Mans) Rumours and Repetition

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by alexkiller8

i doubt that the 908 HDi is really a propriety of oreca.

Of course it wasn't, the discussion wasn't about ownership, it was about technical specification.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by AGD

Dagys is reporting that the Brundles will drive for Greaves in the LMS.

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...teks-for-2012/

While im delighted to hear this , I am disapointed at such a low key effort from Brundle . I would have thought he was on an overall win mission , difficult as that will be . What about the gentleman driver per car rule ?

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by The Badger

While im delighted to hear this , I am disapointed at such a low key effort from Brundle . I would have thought he was on an overall win mission , difficult as that will be . What about the gentleman driver per car rule ?

I think LMP2 has always looked likely since the middle of this year when Greaves tested Alex. I think this is more about racing with his son and the enjoyment rather than going for the win.

But you do bring up an interesting question about gentlemen drivers which is something I've been thinking about. Quite a few LMP2 teams might need a reshuffle.

Olivier Lombard was ranked as silver this year. He could move up to Gold possibly? I think Alex Brundle should be a silver so that team could try and bring in a quick third driver.

Same thing for Signatech with Lucas Ordonez. Will he now be ranked above silver?

http://www.lemans.org/wpphpFichiers/...tification.pdf

[Samoan Attorney]

Originally Posted by The Badger

While im delighted to hear this , I am disapointed at such a low key effort from Brundle . I would have thought he was on an overall win mission , difficult as that will be . What about the gentleman driver per car rule ?

I would wait for the official announcement before making judgements, I understand that this is imminent.

But should the Tweet be right, it should be kept in mind that LM P2 will be the premier class for the 2012 Le Mans Series and therefore shooting for outright wins. The record of Greaves Motorsport in 2011 would suggest that they are in with a shout for such victories at the very least.

While Martin Brundle has a stellar record as a driver, especially in endurance racing, he will be 53 by the time June rolls round. He retired as a professional driver some ten years ago and, with the best will in the world, is unlikely to be on the shopping list of Audi, Peugeot or Toyota.

[KA]

Makes sense to me- as you say, Martin's hardly likely to be looking for a factory drive at this stage in his driving career, so the opportunity to have a bit of fun racing with his son, with the added benefit of being able to do it in a car that should have the potential to win races next year in the LMS, and be in with a shout for the class at Le Mans must sound like a pretty tempting deal

[The Badger]

Yeah , after giving it some thought , Im quite pleased for them . They will have a good soild reliable car , with a decent engine , some decent driving talent , a test car and a chance to race Le Mans with his son .

Guess it doesnt get much better than that . I'll be cheering them big time .

[DeathOrGlory]

This 2012 Zytek...

is this an update of the 2011 chassis or a whole new car altogether?

[alexkiller8]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

Of course it wasn't, the discussion wasn't about ownership, it was about technical specification.

the 2010 oreca 908HDi was a full factory spec car (not just a car not fully upgraded given to a private team like was in 2009 with pescarolo) and during LM had the same low aero developed 2010 package like the 3 908HDi of peugeot sport total (and surely the same engine setting...). Then during the LMS races there were engineers from peugeot sport and sarrazin as driver to support the team! just think also that peugeot gave them a second 908 chassis to replace the one crashed at spa.

[FstrthnU]

Originally Posted by DeathOrGlory

This 2012 Zytek...

is this an update of the 2011 chassis or a whole new car altogether?

I think it's a totally new car, the old 2011 one will be used as a testing car

[Samoan Attorney]

Originally Posted by FstrthnU

I think it's a totally new car, the old 2011 one will be used as a testing car

I think there is a touch of cross purpose.

Greaves Motorsport is buying a new chassis from Zytek as is Renate Ojjeh. These are new versions of the Zytek chassis that Greaves Motorsport ran in 2011.

The ACO is not allowing any changes to the HPD, Oreca or Zytek basic chassis as they fit the performance criteria of LM P2.

The changes year on year will be the addition of the fin and the new louvre arrangements as madated by the new ACO/FIA rules.

Is that clear?

[DeathOrGlory]

Originally Posted by deggis

Not forgetting this: http://www.dailysportscar.com/viewAr...A17046717C6413

...minus Mazda. Most unlikely anyway, but those comments from the auto show would be a bit weird just before of an official announcement. Right?

http://formula-one.speedtv.com/artic...n-with-mclaren

I think you can scratch Honda/HPD out of this. We all know what Honda wants. F1 glory.

If Honda does stick to LMP1, it'll be as an engine supplier, not as a factory team.

[trahsub]

Originally Posted by DeathOrGlory

http://formula-one.speedtv.com/artic...n-with-mclaren

I think you can scratch Honda/HPD out of this. We all know what Honda wants. F1 glory.

If Honda does stick to LMP1, it'll be as an engine supplier, not as a factory team.

Honda doesn't seem like a fit for F1 given the direction of their cars these days. I know F1 has KERS and such, but they are all about efficency...wouldn't it make sense to follow Toyota's direction with a Hybrid LMP?

As someone who owned a Prelude, I used to LOVE Hondas. Their lineup back around Y2K was sick - DC2 Type R, Civic Si/Type R, NSX, S2000, Legend Coupe. Now? Their cars are so uninspiring. They have become so lame.

[LeMans.pt]

The hypothetical return of Honda to F1 would be as an engine supplier. I wouldn't rule out Honda yet

And i'll bet they will have a full-factory team until 2014. Meanwhile... Strakka will have the same support Highcroft had in the ALMS.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by trahsub

Honda doesn't seem like a fit for F1 given the direction of their cars these days. I know F1 has KERS and such, but they are all about efficency...

The rumor is about 2014 and 2014 means introduction of 1.6L V6, so this point is a bit moot imho.

[cmk]

Yep, the 2014 F1 ruleset (which should never have been delayed IMO) is tailor-made for the Japanese manufacturers' engine philosophy. Probably why the current players were so glad to see it delayed! Efficient small-displacement engines are the way to go generally, but I would love to see manufacturers pursuing high-output 1.6L engines in light-weight F1 chassis designed by 'coachbuilders' and the ~3.4L V8 engines with varied experimental hybrid systems in bespoke manufacturer chassis in the WEC. A nice synergy of different technological skill sets!

[ger80]

Whats Japanese in using small engines? Its the "everywhere except the North America" engine philosophy ...

[CTD]

Honda/Mclaren rumors are getting serious, and apparently only need confirmation from Honda's board. The engine is apparently technical ready for the 2014 regulations.

I got the information from a danish motorsport site, who only post rumors when they are really serious.

[deggis]

Sounds like exactly same story as in the above Speed.com link which came directly from motorsport news agency GMM and has been now spread all over the racing newssites, likely including that Danish site.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by deggis

Sounds like exactly same story as above in the Speed.com story which came directly from motorsport news agency GMM.

Well, i dont think that my source uses GMM, so that only reinforces what probably isn't an rumor any more (that Honda talks with Mclaren)

[deggis]

If you think it's a different story then you should probably post a link.

Forgot and the GMM story actually mentions Auto Motor und Sport as the source.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by trahsub

As someone who owned a Prelude, I used to LOVE Hondas. Their lineup back around Y2K was sick - DC2 Type R, Civic Si/Type R, NSX, S2000, Legend Coupe. Now? Their cars are so uninspiring. They have become so lame.

A lack of specifically sporty models is an issue, but Honda's reputation around Y2K was that they built boring looking econoboxes that were actually pretty fun to drive relative to the competition. Well, those days are over. The mainstream models are now severely bloated in terms of size and with hideous appearance. Give me boring anyday over those Pontiac Aztec wannabes. And they aren't so fun to drive either. They drive (and stop) as bloated as they look. I thought it was hilarious that Consumer Reports absolutely slammed the 2012 Civic when they used to love all things Civic. I believe it was rated 2nd worst amongst small cars (only the Jetta was worse - a similar story to be told there). That would have been unthinkable 10 years ago. Oh, and Honda's hybrids are a complete joke compared to the competition.

Also, Honda had a reputation for having a different racing philosophy than other mass manufacturers. Now? Not so much. Years of spec. racing in the IRL and bad racing in F1 will do that. Maybe the McLaren connection will rekindle old feelings. After all, their domestic competitor won all the glory this year. As for sports car racing, how can they get in on the action? Common engines with F1? Oh yeeeah!

[trahsub]

Originally Posted by AGD

A lack of specifically sporty models is an issue, but Honda's reputation around Y2K was that they built boring looking econoboxes that were actually pretty fun to drive relative to the competition. Well, those days are over. The mainstream models are now severely bloated in terms of size and with hideous appearance. Give me boring anyday over those Pontiac Aztec wannabes. And they aren't so fun to drive either. They drive (and stop) as bloated as they look. I thought it was hilarious that Consumer Reports absolutely slammed the 2012 Civic when they used to love all things Civic. I believe it was rated 2nd worst amongst small cars (only the Jetta was worse - a similar story to be told there). That would have been unthinkable 10 years ago. Oh, and Honda's hybrids are a complete joke compared to the competition.

Also, Honda had a reputation for having a different racing philosophy than other mass manufacturers. Now? Not so much. Years of spec. racing in the IRL and bad racing in F1 will do that. Maybe the McLaren connection will rekindle old feelings. After all, their domestic competitor won all the glory this year. As for sports car racing, how can they get in on the action? Common engines with F1? Oh yeeeah!

Yes the direction they have gone is pretty disappointing. I really don't understand their appeal to go back to F1 if the rumors are true. Maybe this is a better dynamic for them to be involved with McLaren. They are so over sportcars really...just look at the shelved NSX successor project, esp. when their competition has the GT-R and LF-A.

[Asa]

Originally Posted by deggis

Is that a fact? And did you miss the Toyota+Oreca announcement?


I remember but in both cases old cars (Oreca 908 @ LM '10 - was even that the latest development?). I think it is right to say they have not shown great interest.

I was just saying that Peugeot and Audi are not exactly against the idea of supporting "customer" teams to run with their turbo diesel machines.

If somebody could come up with a good proposal, then I can envision Audi supply an R18 or two for them to run in ALMS. Why not? Kolles got Audi to supply cars to them.

ORECA is with Toyota now, but ORECA is not the only sportscar team in the world that Peugeot can work with I am sure, loads of good teams out there, no?.

Obviously running a Peugeot in the ALMS will be a hard sell since Peugeots are not sold in the USA, but it is not like it is a crazy idea for a good private team to get a car and support from Peugeot as you seem to be suggesting.

[CTD]

Endurance Info reports that Tomczyk leaves DTM for new sporting challenges.
Could this be a move to Audi LMP, Peugeot or Toyota?

[CTD]

DP - Server problems still?