[LM24] Nissan return to Le Mans (G56)

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

So to summarize, they are going to run an engineering exercise to try and convince the ACO to change their rules, to accommodate something in the future maybe. I wish them luck, I'd love to see Nissan do something in Endurance Racing in one of the top classes. Shame on the ACO for once again creating a set of rules preventing greatness. Hybrid, the new Diesel.

I can't disagree with this. There was an chance to drastically reshape the rules and instead it is more of an evolution rather than revolution. If efficiency was a target why not have a lower weight?

[pach233]

Graham,

Thank you for taking the time to respond to all of us. I'll admit I was initially disappointed in the announcement as I'm interested in racing as a sport and G56 entries don't actually compete. However, as I've let it soak in and read the comments, I am getting intrigued by what Nissan have up their sleeve for 2014 and hope Nissan and the ACO can find a way to make it work for P1 for '15/'16. Its hard for me to get really excited about it now, but I won't bash them either. I think I'll wait and see what comes about and hopefully it will come to something positive for the WEC/LM24 and endurance racing overall.


Thanks again for answering questions and discussing the topic back and forth. There sometimes may be some negative comments but they come only out of passion for the sport.

Edited to Add: Agree on the above comments regarding ACO '14 P1 regs. Shouldn't force manufacturers into one technology. Would like to have seen a wider range of options (lower weight-lower power, high displacement NA, small turbos, hybrids, etc.) Maybe that encourages more manufacturers to try something innovative in P1.

[LeMans.pt]

remember this?


Surely it wont be this car... but this must be the father of what is to come!

[TF110]

That's probably why they chose to go the all electric route. To tout their Leaf. I wonder if it'll be self sustaining, or if there will be a quick change of batteries of some sort. Instead of refueling, perhaps they'll change a battery that'll be fully charged. Kinda bummed it wasn't a LMP1, but possibly in the future is good to hear.

[MitchZ06]

I'd expect 'refuelling' would include just swapping out a large battery pack or two.

[DeathOrGlory]

Imagine how ****ed this bunch would be if Nissan would build a DP! Or even a NASCAR Sprint Cup car!

[gustavobamba]

So, the big news are:

Nissan "DeltaWing part II" all electric for garage 56th in 2014.

Thats very comprehensive because they could only chalenge Audi and Toyota with a new concept, they don´t have hybrid technology yet.

Thats a good thing, i´m not expecting an LMP1 annoucement so... very promising indeed.

[MitchZ06]

They never said anything about it being a Deltawang! Infact, in repeating what others and Nissan themselves have said they stepped away from the Wang sometime last year after PLM.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

They never said anything about it being a Deltawang! Infact, in repeating what others and Nissan themselves have said they stepped away from the Wang sometime last year after PLM.

While at the same time poaching many of the people in the Deltawing project, MulsanneMike did mention that Ben Bowlby is now working for Nissan for example.

[Breitling24]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

2014 LMP1 is all about hybrids - that only works as a tech showcase IF YOU BUILD HYBRIDS.

Happy for you to carry on agreeing how outrageous this all is and ignoring the realities of life that unless Nissan can persuade the rulemakers to open up the LMP1 rules to wider tech solutions they can't unlock the budgets to come - Garage 56 in 2014 is the key to that.

If you choose to see it as a standalone marketing exercise then prepare to be wrong!

Oh, I agree with you, Graham. My comment of "marketing" was what they did possibly did with the DW, marketing themselves as interested in alternate technology to come back again as the G56 car.

[CTD]

I'm not surprised.
When I woke up today, I honestly thought we where going to see a LMP1 for 2014, but seeing this announcement is the biggest I actually had hoped.

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

So a major global manufacturer announcing a return to the highest echelons of endurance racing isn't worth the hype?
Really????
Honestly guys words fail me.

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

That's as maybe - but they already build and sell all electric - the article you link to talks of lower than hoped for sales - a succesful racing programme might be just the thing to change that - In not a disimilar way as Audi achieved with TDI, changing the public image of an unfashionable tech solution.
Honestly guys you can choose to see this as some sort of cloak and dagger non programme if you wish, but you'd be wrong.

Graham, the reason many are this disappointed about this announcement, is because of the lack of security they receive from it. Nissan, promises a Garage 56th entry, but nothing more.
The possibility of a Nissan LMP1 is still only a possible dream, as words doesn't mean much in Sportscars these days. Even Porsche and Audi is having trouble getting into the heads of some that they WILL race each other in 2014. That's despite the MANY confirmations we have received from both. So until Nissan say: "We will start a LMP1 program for Le Mans 20XX" few dare to thrust it will happen.

The Peugeot Pull out, damaged the faith of Sportscar Racing in a serious way.

When Le Mans 2014 comes, I think Le Mans Fan's view of this will have changed.

[TF110]

Nissan's best selling car, the Altima, has a hybrid version. They also build a luxury hybrid Infinity M35h. They do have hybrid technology. If that's good enough for an LMP1 is the question. But in reality, Toyota doesn't have a super capacitor in any hybrid road car of theirs, but the TS030 does. Like I said, this is probably a decision based on their road relevancy. The 'all-electric' Leaf being the culprit.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Disappointing. As many have commented G56 is "only" an engineering and marketing exercise. It's not motorsport. What endurance racing and the WEC need are more commitment from constructors, not a G56 exercise limited to one single outing at Le Mans. NISSAN could have played a bigger role. They opted to do things "differently". Very well. Good luck to them.

Let's hope this single G56 outing will lead to something of substance for the future of endurance racing. Something of more substance than the DW project which is now dead in the water after having been abandoned by all major players involved... including NISSAN...

NISSAN do not want to play according to the rules. They want to shape their own rules and compete in their own G56 class. Why do we need rules after all ? Let's scrap the entire rulebook, burn the-yet-to-be-finalized 2014-rules, give the engineering and marketing freedom to ALL players, Toyota, Audi, Porsche & Co. and see what comes out of it.

[Mal]

Originally Posted by Mal

I hope its not true - but... there was a rumour that Nissan had bought two closed cockpit Deltawing and then Bowlby, Nissan and Michelin all abandoned the project in quick succession ... so I wonder if they are doing there own interpretation of the Deltawing.

It looks like my instinct was right then.

However ..... they have been very vague about the timing for a LMP1 entry so is there just a chance that this is a 2 stage announcement - 1) the G56 car to gain maximum publicity and 2) more details of the P1 project to follow shortly .. maybe even for 2014?

Long term this is very good news and it is a shame that the rules do not allow varying technologies to compete at once - it seems we have to go through a few years showcasing one technology before moving onto the next.

[porsche91722]

I was all ready to be excited that another manufacturer was going to be at Le Mans in 2014 in P1. Talk about being underwhelmed.
Look... I suppose I should be happy that Nissan are fronting up with another experimental race car in G56. If you are in to that sort of thing, that's great, but it's just going to be another mobile chicane like the DW. I just hope it stays out of the way of the Porsche/Audi/Toyota main game. I'll say one thing about Nissan though, they are very good at bleeding this type of PR exercise for what it's worth.

[Mal]

Nissan's return to Le Mans really deserves its own thread

After all the disappointments from those hoping for a full P1 works entry Nissans commitment to Le Mans is a good thing - it is a shame they are using it as a publicity exercise without taking up the fight but I will remain optimistic that the long term goal is to win Le Mans.

The biggest disappointment in this is really with the rules as after all the hype of encouraging new technology this really highlights the fact that the new rules do not allow any sort of freedom of design, as with anything new no one knows how to set the paramenters.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Mal

2) more details of the P1 project to follow shortly .. maybe even for 2014?

What P1 project? The reference to LMP1 in the press release is only to butt kiss ACO.

[Mal]

Originally Posted by deggis

What P1 project? The reference to LMP1 in the press release is only to butt kiss ACO.

I read this on DSC...

"Nissan are looking to return to LMP1 with a factory programme – There is an internal company timetable for this but no announcement yet."

.. and I have commented on it believing it could be true. Once again the cynics and naysayers on here are dissing everything that doesn't involve exactly what they want.

[Koenigsegg]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

I'd expect 'refuelling' would include just swapping out a large battery pack or two.

Or they don't need to pit for 'fuel', only tires.

Perhaps the can recharge as much as energry while driving as is going out. Solar pannels, brake heat, tire heat, wind friction, perhaps even use the battery heat and so on. I think you get the picture.

[Mal]

This is a good take on the situation imo:

http://www.endurance-info.com/versio...cus-16109.html

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Mal

I read this on DSC...

"Nissan are looking to return to LMP1 with a factory programme – There is an internal company timetable for this but no announcement yet."

That is actually new to this thread... (free) http://www.dailysportscar.com/viewAr...7231FB579601F7

That actually sounds like it might have been said during the second part of the announcement/media Q&A or whatever, but still doesn't mean much.

.. and I have commented on it believing it could be true. Once again the cynics and naysayers on here are dissing everything that doesn't involve exactly what they want.

Once again the cynics will probably unfortunately be right based on past examples.

[deggis]

^ That's from ACO, obviously a bit biased

http://www.24h-lemans.com/en/news/th...ours_9928.html

[Mal]

Originally Posted by deggis

Once again the cynics will probably unfortunately be right based on past examples.

I dont agree:

Just look at the cynics and naysayers on the Toyota thread when Toyota have done exactly as they originally announced and more.....

Nissan have clearly made a commitment to Endurance racing as they have gradually been building up their involvement for a number of years - including Sponsorship at Le Mans, supporting RLM and DSC; building a P2 engine which now powers most of the grid and sponsoring the DW (another target of the doomongers). This is clearly the next stage and whilst it is not my perfect scenario it is still a good one and demonstrates the increasing long term commitment of a manufacturer to endurance racing.

[lms]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

I genuinely don'y know - But read their statements - Whatever they are planning is not accommodated by the current rules it seems

so they wont join lmp1 because it will be an all-hybrid class from 2014.

but what about this (from e-i)

"The aim of the entry using the Garage 56 is to supply the Automobile Club de l'Ouest and Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile (FIA) with the necessary information to enhance the new LMP1 regulations and to assess their potential in racing conditions."

http://www.endurance-info.com/versio...cus-16109.html

what could this mean. maybe not all hybrids after all.

[wolfhound]

It will be interesting to see what type of electric storage system Nissan use as I don't think you could pack enough batteries in to do the job. I would go for a flywheel based system, I am not sure how much capacity capacitors have.

They must have something worked out otherwise they would not have entered.