Toyota's Engine Power

[Mark F1]

Just read an article in this week's Autosport about the testing at Barcelona last week and the thing that struck me was the apparent power of Toyota's Engine. They quoted it as having 850 BHP (Only BMW, Ferrari, Mercedes & perhaps Jaguar have more powerful engines) and they also said that the top speed it achieved on the pit-straight was 309 km/h (206 Mph).

Add the fact that the fastest speed in last year's Spanish Grand Prix was 199 Mph (Set by Mika Hakkinen) and you quickly see that although there testing times have ranged between two to four seconds slower than the front runners at both Barcelona and Valencia, they have quite a speedy little engine in the back of the TF102.

If they manage to make the engine a reliable one, who knows where they will end up at the seasons end. They won't set the world on fire, but they could well gain a few decent points scoring positions in the more than capable hands of McNish and Salo.

Am I right or a complete nutter, What do you think?

[GasMan]

Well if they've got a semi decent car chassis then they could pull off a few upsets here and there but the aerodynamic package is so vital on these cars that a good package could mean the difference between sliding around the course with poor mechanical and aerodynamical grip and a car that is so solid and stuck to the ground that it handles like a dream.

On paper at least, it looks like it could have a very good chance at the faster circuits like Imola and Hockenheim. It certainly is going to be interesting to see how the teams all play out. Looking forward to Australia.

[Valve Bounce]

I have to agree with GasMan here (Sorry I didn't welcome you to the forum before :confused:
Toyota does not have a wind tunnel, and I don't know how difficult it is for them to get the use of one. This could spell the difference between lapping well, or simply ruining tyres rapidly in a race.
I am impressed by the power achieved, and I guess Toyota will be more impressive than many here think, simply because they have had one full year testing and getting their car and engine ready with no pressure from races and quals.
I cannot stress highly enough that with Toyota, it will be a question of face as they strive to get the better of Honda, who also think likewise. We could expect the two Japanese teams to improve dramatically as they vie against each other.

[GasMan]

Blooming heck, my mind's gone blank... there was a team a season or two ago that didn't have a windtunnel of their own but eventually got one built... it might have been Jaguar (if so, it hasn't really done them any good ).

One thing that impresses me about Toyota is that they have not came into F1 with the fanfare previous new teams have arrived with. These guys have turned up and are just running that car and getting the miles up for data. They seem to have the goal in mind (from the attitude I can sense from them) that they are here for improvement against themselves at least for this season. Ultimately the goal will be winning races and even championships but for now they seem so focussed that they could indeed pull off a few major upsets come race time.

[Maximum F1]

It would be good to see toyota do well this season, it would prove that the days of building an F1 team from scratch are not yet gone. However, i don't think there will be any major upsets from them this season, they may have the power but one has to question will they have the reliabilty and downright speed in race conditions. Time will tell.
Maximum F1

[f1manoz]

They aren't going to set the world alight by, say, winning the first race, but they will be able to score some points by seasons end, and if they are fortunate enough and develop well enough, may even get a podium, but a few things will have to swing their way.

[Glen]

If this is true (not doubting it is) then they already have the thing that most teams crave and find hard to come by - ie. plenty of power. The thing is, they lack the things that all of the other teams tak for granted - experience, reliability, heaps of data, wind tunnel working throughout the development of the car, race practice...

They'll be concentrating on relibility first and foremost, and I think they'll struggle. When you see an experienced team like Jordan or BAR (their natural rivals) suffer with reliabilty all year (as they both did last year) you realise how many factors must be at play in getting points.

Qualifying should be comparitavely simple, but a GP is a long race.

If they beat Arrows they will have done a superb job.

[Valve Bounce]

Well Glen, I think that Jaguar actually qualifies as their natural rival, and it will be against Jaguar that I will compare their performance. Wouldn't it be great if they beat Jaguar.

[Glen]

VB

Oh, how I will laugh if that happens! You're right about Jag - a much more realistic target than the Honda teams, but I don't think they'll beat them. A single WC point would be a major success.

Forgot to mention in my earlier post that they also lack top drivers (unless McNish can prove me wrong and Salo is suddenly somehow transformed).

[timbo2001]

It seems that the chassis plays a big part these days. Just look last years Sauber compared to the Prost, both with the same engine. That says it all.

[BD]

I agree with Glen. Arrows should be Toyota's target. I'd be surprised if Toyota scored any points this season. With 3 top teams fighting for the top spot, then Renault, Sauber, Jordan, and BAR proving to be very fast. Then Jaguar will probably be next, but definetly in front of Toyota. So with the top 16 spots taken, it would take 11 dropouts for them to score.
They may have a powerfull engine, but so did Prost last year...

BD

[Speedworx]

I think Toyota will do quite well this season. Their engine seems very powerful.

[BD]

Powerful engine? So what????
Arrows, Jaguar, Sauber, Jordan, and BAR have powerful engines too.
Their performance will come down to the chassis, not the engine.

[Valve Bounce]

Originally posted by BD
Arrows should be Toyota's target.

BD

I can't believe you said that. Shouldn't it be that Toyota would be the target for the Arrows?

On a more serious vein, I think the methodical approach of Toyota will produce the big surprise in the results. I will not be surprised if Toyota manages a few points towards the end of the season. Don't forget, BAR managed a ew points last year when there were many dropouts at hte front of the field. If I remember correctly, I think I even saw jacques on the podium. NAH!! must have been dreaming again.

[BD]

BAR last year had much more potential than Toyota has this year.
I'm willing to bet that Toyota will be battling at the back with Arrows, Prost(if they make it), and Minardi.
So far, Toyota aerodynamically has been similar to how the Arrows has been the last couple of years; fast on the straights, slow in the corners.
I'll be cheering for Toyota, and I'll see it as a victory if they can beat the Arrows.

[Alan Jones]

Looks mighty interesting doesn't it.Thats a serious amount of power and right in the ballpark for their first season and going by their history in other forms of motorsport, one would think that the best is yet to come. The loss of face should they fail would cost them squillions.

[M Power]

I think toyota will be a BIG dark horse this year .
I think car speed won't be a issue only team tactic's and team package with realiblty the telling factor . But I do execpt them to be high than both Honda units When and I say WHEN it all gels together

[av8rirl]

Engine power and straight line speed are one thing but if you're **** around the twisty, turny bits you won't get the fastest lap-times. So they may be OK on the circuits with long straights (not many nowadays) but when they come to the other circuits they'll surely have slow times. They need a wind tunnel badly.

[BD]

av8rirl is right. Having good straight line speed but bad corning speed produces slow lap times.
I just cant imagine a rookie team being more reliable than the established teams. I would think in their first year, of a multi-year project, they will be focusing on finishing races to collect as much data as possible. They know they cant win the championship this year, so it would be wise to learn as much as possible. You dont learn much when your car is on the run-off area during the race.
Reliability vs. Speed. They will pick reliability in order to develop the speed in the next couple of years.

BD

[steve nielsen]

Originally posted by BD
Powerful engine? So what????
Arrows, Jaguar, Sauber, Jordan, and BAR have powerful engines too.
Their performance will come down to the chassis, not the engine.

they have a powerfull engine THIS year, but not the last few seasons, the Supertec had 780 BHP, the Asiatech 770, when you compare that to Jag(830),Sauber(825) and the Honda teams(825) it's nothing.

[BD]

I was talking about this year. I know what engine they have, and which they've had.
Tot ziens

BD

[ljakse]

Originally posted by BD
I'm willing to bet that Toyota will be battling at the back with Arrows, Prost(if they make it), and Minardi.

I'll be more than happy to accept that bet.
Yes, they are new, and yes they don't have a wind tunnel. However, they have, obviously, rather powerfull engine, and, more important for me - they are japanesse company.
And a year (actually 7 months) is veery long time.

[Speedworx]

I think Toyota will be top 10 for most of the season.

[BD]

ljakse, what does Toyota being a Japanese company have anything to do with how well they will do???

hakkiman, 10th out of 12(assuming Prost makes it) in the championship, is exactly what I've been saying.
If you think they will place 10th or better in a race, who is it that you think they will be beating? BAR? Jordan? Jaguar? Sauber?

They are a rookie team, with a rookie F1 driver, new tires, new chassis, new engineers, new engine, 0 races, 0 qualifying experience, etc.

I would love for Toyota to do well, but realistically, too much is against them. Maybe in 2004, but not now.

[ljakse]

Originally posted by BD
ljakse, what does Toyota being a Japanese company have anything to do with how well they will do???

There is this thing about face.
We all know they are in F1 to beat Honda, and that is question of face. I don't know if any of you ever have worked anything with Japanese people, but their determination in doing the job done is without match. If you add 'the face factor' to it, it's becoming unbeliveable.
Toyota is a very strong&rich company and they will do anything not to lose face. However, their goal for for the first year might not be to beat Honda immidiately, but they will not allow to be humiliated - and that would be not competetive to Honda AT ALL, which is the case with Minardi, Prost and Arrows.