Never ending electrical woes.

Sharky · 2 Jul 2006, 17:00 (Ref:1646364)

Well, the electrical glitches have struck again. I haven't been using my car lately as I've lended it to my dad and it has left him stranded two times in one week. He he took a drive, parked and then the car failed to start. The battery was running low on water and the contacts were a bit corroded so they were cleaned and the battery was refilled and it seemed that the problem was solved.

However, yesterday I was taking a drive with the headlights on when I accidentaly stalled the engine

but worse was to come as the car failed to star again. I turned off the lights, disconnected the radiator fan which was running but nothing. Completely dead. When I turned on the ignition nothing happened. The started didn't even make a sound or anything. However, the headlight and the rest of the electrical stuff in the car was working fine indicating that the battery was properly charged. The car had to be pushed to get it up and running again, then I went to my girlfriend's hose and when I was about to leave, again no response from the ignition. Once again the car had to be pushed to strat it up. But when I arrived at my home I tried starting it up and it worked.

Now, I had this problem 3 or four times in the past, mainly when the radiator fan was running or the headlights were on. That would usually mean turning off the headlights or waiting for the fan to shut down before starting it up again. But now I don't know what to do.

I don't know much about car electrics but I feel that there should be some kind of component that redirects all the power from the battery into the starter motor when the ignition key is turned but it is failing for some reason. But I am clueless. HELP!!!

**Tim Falce** · 2 Jul 2006, 17:28 (Ref:1646418)

It sounds like your alternator is not charging properly. I fitted a new one to my daughter's car a few months ago and it only puts out about 11 volts unless you really rev the engine hard. The battery is fine fo a while but then dies and needs recharging.

Sharky · 2 Jul 2006, 23:43 (Ref:1646894)

Nope. The alternator has been tested and it works fine. Likewise for the battery (which is less than a year old and a good brand - Bosch). Frustrating

Dave Brand · 3 Jul 2006, 14:53 (Ref:1647376)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharky

Nope. The alternator has been tested and it works fine. Likewise for the battery (which is less than a year old and a good brand - Bosch). Frustrating

The fact that the battery was low on water indicates that there is a problem, either with the battery or with the alternator. Modern batteries should seldom, if ever, need topping up. If you're having to add a lot of water, something's wrong - a common cause is too high a voltage from the alternator. If the battery has been run at a low electrolyte level for any length of time it's probably irreparably damaged.

The headlights, etc., working is no indication that the battery's charged - it shows that there is some charge in the battery. If a battery's been run flat it's unlikely that it will charge up fully on the car - you need to take it off & put it on a charger until it's fully charged.

thebear · 3 Jul 2006, 16:01 (Ref:1647430)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharky

When I turned on the ignition nothing happened. The started didn't even make a sound or anything.

I don't know much about car electrics but I feel that there should be some kind of component that redirects all the power from the battery into the starter motor when the ignition key is turned but it is failing for some reason. But I am clueless. HELP!!!

Don Corleone, I want you to do me a favor:

Go back to the original head gasket thread and look at the last pictures that show all the corrosion in the area where the battery wires attach to the starter.

You have a bad starter solenoid connection and possibly a bad solenoid due to all the corrosion that was shown.. That is why there is no `click'. The starter wiring is also part of the charging system. The solenoid may be bad and it is probably not sold as a separate item. You will probably have to get a complete starter.

Capisca? (¿entienda?)

Sharky · 3 Jul 2006, 17:01 (Ref:1647465)

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebear

[SIZE="2"] You will probably have to get a complete starter.

What?? Look what they did to my boy. They massacred my boy!

I've just done some multimeter tests and here are my findings. It should be noted that I have a very cheap analogue multimeter with a questionable accuracy. However, although absolute readings may not be accurate, relative ones are.

Anyway I get exactly 12V from the battery when the car is off. When I start the car I get about 14.5V when idle 14V when the light, radio and heating fan are on, a bit less than 14V when the radiator fan is on at low speed, 12V with the fan at max speed (while lights and everything else is on), and when turning on the ignition key the voltage briefly drops to about 10V. The voltage doesn't change when the engine is accelerated (the regulator should be fine thank god).

It is also worth mentioning that my battery isn't maintenance free as it has the plugs for water refilling.

Also, from my girlfriend's house (where the car had to be pushed in irder to start) to my house (where it started up perfectly) it is a 5 minute drive at best which shouldn't be enough time for the battery to recharge, much less with the headlights and stereo on.

BTW, I started it up about 5 times just now (one with the radiator fan running) and had no problems.

Also, that time at my girlfriend's house I noticed that when I turned the ignition key, although there were no "clicking sounds" I heard a faint sound.....almost that of a small electric motor.

BTW, thebear, during the time of trouble with the head gasket, most of the corrossion had fallen on the starter's casing....or at least that's what it looked liked. All that corrosion was cleaned up when the gasket was replaced.

Some guy told me that when that happens, I should turn the ignition and give the starter a little tap as it may be stuck.

Something tells me that my savings will have to be spent again

BTW, I have to confess I'm a bit ignorant on the subject so, could anyone please provide me with a link to a page where they explain how the starter works (with drawings and such)? Thanks.

thebear · 3 Jul 2006, 18:26 (Ref:1647505)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharky

What?? Look what they did to my boy. They massacred my boy!

I've just done some multimeter tests and here are my findings. It should be noted that I have a very cheap analogue multimeter with a questionable accuracy. However, although absolute readings may not be accurate, relative ones are.

Anyway I get exactly 12V from the battery when the car is off.

Should be 13.2vdc (6 x 2.2). Disconnect the ground cable to insure that the battery has no load and check again. It is also possible that somethin has shorted in your wiring and is pulling the battery down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharky

When I start the car I get about 14.5V when idle 14V when the light, radio and heating fan are on, a bit less than 14V when the radiator fan is on at low speed, 12V with the fan at max speed (while lights and everything else is on),

This is not good. It should not below to 12v when the fan starts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharky

and when turning on the ignition key the voltage briefly drops to about 10V. The voltage doesn't change when the engine is accelerated (the regulator should be fine thank god).

This is normal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharky

It is also worth mentioning that my battery isn't maintenance free as it has the plugs for water refilling.

Also, from my girlfriend's house (where the car had to be pushed in irder to start) to my house (where it started up perfectly) it is a 5 minute drive at best which shouldn't be enough time for the battery to recharge, much less with the headlights and stereo on.

Correct.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharky

BTW, I started it up about 5 times just now (one with the radiator fan running) and had no problems.

Also, that time at my girlfriend's house I noticed that when I turned the ignition key, although there were no "clicking sounds" I heard a faint sound.....almost that of a small electric motor.

Still could be a bad solenoid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharky

BTW, thebear, during the time of trouble with the head gasket, most of the corrossion had fallen on the starter's casing....or at least that's what it looked liked. All that corrosion was cleaned up when the gasket was replaced.

Some guy told me that when that happens, I should turn the ignition and give the starter a little tap as it may be stuck.

That is a valid `temporary' fix for a bad solenoid. Could have seeped into the solenoid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharky

Something tells me that my savings will have to be spent again

BTW, I have to confess I'm a bit ignorant on the subject so, could anyone please provide me with a link to a page where they explain how the starter works (with drawings and such)? Thanks.

How Stuff Works

Sharky · 4 Jul 2006, 01:07 (Ref:1647680)

Well, this just keeps getting stranger and stranger. Since the car was working I took it for a drive. Went out to do some errands without any problems. As I was opening the door to the building's garage the dashboard's "charge" indicator (the one with the battery drawing) lighted up in a "vibrating and faint manner". Once again lights and stereo were OK but I noticed that the radiator fan was also running. If I accelerated the car the indicator would reduce its intensity.

But, anyway, sure enough I turned off the car and it isn't starting again. Waited for the fan to shut down but no change. ARGH!

Well, at least I managed to get home!

BTW, I've been unable to find the info on how the starter works

Dave Brand · 5 Jul 2006, 18:50 (Ref:1649062)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharky

As I was opening the door to the building's garage the dashboard's "charge" indicator (the one with the battery drawing) lighted up in a "vibrating and faint manner". Once again lights and stereo were OK but I noticed that the radiator fan was also running. If I accelerated the car the indicator would reduce its intensity.

That's an indication that you have a charging fault; the other symptoms you describe suggest that it's intermittent, but it sounds like a faulty alternator to me - most probably a failed diode. That would explain why you have had to top your battery up. In view of other comments you have made, check all the wiring in the charging circuit to make sure that it's not just caused by high resistance in a corroded connector; check, also, all the ground connections to ensure that they are clean. However, my money's still on a faulty alternator!

Sharky · 5 Jul 2006, 18:59 (Ref:1649070)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

That's an indication that you have a charging fault; the other symptoms you describe suggest that it's intermittent, but it sounds like a faulty alternator to me - most probably a failed diode.

You must be a wizard of some sort! I forgot to mention that I took the car to the mechanic and I've just called them and, effectively, it is a faulty diode. It is being replaced and hopefully I'll have it back by this afternoon.

As always, thanks for the help!

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