Porsche resto project-Am I insane?

[Lee Janotta]

Okay, this is one of the myriad of ideas gnawing at my brain... Taking an abandoned but structually sound '69 to '73 Porsche 911 or 912, and turning it into a slightly updated '72 911S clone.

I figure it'll require a full engine rebuild using a 2.4L crank and crankcase, stripping the car down to bare metal, spot-welding a few little rust holes, seam welding the whole chassis, replacing all the suspension and brake parts, taking much of the steering off more recent 911s, replacing the accessory parts, doing a mix&match job on the interior from lots of wrecking yards...

Now, working to my advantage is the fact that I have _no_ life, and aside from any necessary machining and all the sandblasting, can do all the work myself.

I probably already know the answer to this, but does anything think it could be done for under 5 figures American? That's always my problem... Budget. Or complete lack thereof.

Oh well... Still, sounds like a pretty cool idea, doesn't it?

[Bluebottle]

Sounds like another oppertunity for me to shout "Join An Owners Club!" -thats probably the best starting point for advice, parts deals etc....

Let us know how you get on if you decide to go ahead with the project, a few 'running reports' and pics would be good!

[TimD]

Downsides: The incredible cost of original Porsche bits, which might as well be gold-plated for the prices they ask for them. The chances of rust, especially in the rear wheel/rear window area. And any rust you do find there will be criminally difficult to eradicate, and the parts will be - well, see above...

Pluses: All those parts Porsche want a kings ransom for will be available. The other big plus is that if you can fix a VW Beetle, you can probably fix an early 911. They aren't the same, but they share a design philosophy, if you follow me.

[Lee Janotta]

I know whatcha mean, Tim, about the similarities.

I'm not some resto-Nazi... I'd probably be mix-n-matching interior panels and such, which'd open up the parts supply more.

Though it turns out Porsche Club of America's club racing events are super-expensive, and I was thinking of putting in a roll cage and running it as a 911S in the appropriate stock class. Their rules are such that you can have both a race-winning car and a comfortable daily driver in the same machine.

Oh well... I still need a cool street car, but probably nothing's going to happen until I graduate college. Just... No money until then. Plenty of time though... Oh well.

[ghinzani]

Lee go for a 73 911 2.4e, best handling of the non RS in my opinion. We had one left over from 1991 in 92 which we used to use for Track Days to give our Equity & Law guests a ride in. I used to drive it from Plymouth to places like Donington and Silverstone (round trip of 500 miles) and blast it round all day and the thing never broke down! Amazing... plus it went round corners like the best thing ever - used to hate handing it back and getting into my student grant cheque bought Austin Metro !!

[Lee Janotta]

Sounds fantastic... Though since all I can hope to afford is a basket case, I'd probably rebuild it closer to '72 911S specs... Or who knows... If I'm not racing it, I might just drop in a 3.2L or 3.4L.... Though those don't rev as nice.

I'd certainly redo all the suspension with aftermarket parts anyways... I like a fairly stiff setup, and big roll bars. You can break the rear loose in typical driving, but it's got tons of grip when you really need it.

[garcon]

Dunno how things are set up in the US for racing, but here in the UK, there are a number of official series run by Porsche Club GB Motorsport Division.

I've helped out a friend who's raced a 924 Turbo in the Porsche Classic series - for production standard cars up to around 15 years old. There's a couple of lovely 2.4 911E models in that series. Downside is that they have to be standard - so you couldn't take an early car and upgrade to 911S.

However, there's also the Porsche Open, which is for any Porsche, modified or not - your project would fit in nicely, though it'd be somewhere near the back of the grid and you'd spend most of each race checking your mirrors for twin turbo 993's!

Finally there's the Porsche Cup, which they've now changed to a one model series for the 996 GT3 Cup. Fine if you have $400,000 a season to spare...

As for the project, personally I'd rather find an early 911 and restore it to its original spec, but that's purely down to choice - I'm not one to 'disapprove' of tasteful and purposeful mods!

If you look out for cars in the hotter/drier parts of the US then corrosion becomes less of an issue - much like here where most of the best cars in the Classic are LHD cars from Italy and such.

As for cost of Porsche bits, the owners club should be able to point you at scrappers and what you can pull out of the VW parts bin (you'd be surprised!)...

Keep us informed - pics & progress reports would be great!

[woodyracing]

how about a 924 or 944 instead ?
im sure they would be a lot cheaper than a 911.
924's can be made to look like 944s aswell.

[garcon]

The thing is (and this is from someone who's run a 924 race car) the 924/944s aren't proper Porsches are they?!

An trust me, early 911s may be a little dearer to buy/restore/run, but they're a damn site more reliable...

[woodyracing]

I dunno, i wouldn't mind a 944 Turbo

[garcon]

Now they were something. Competed well in the Porsche Cup, in Class 1 alongside 968s, 993s etc!!

[Lee Janotta]

The 911S is just the 911E... But, y'know, more of everything. Better handling, more power, higher revs... Forged rods and pistons...

Hehe... The downside here with the 924/944s is that they're usually in the hands of young males who don't take care of them, but flog them every chance they get. They end up looking dented and rusty, and squeak and smoke as they go down the road.

Plus, I'd rather have something that predates most environmental regulation here. I aim to make the engine burn cleanly, but not because the pencil pushers made me do it.

Plus there's a beautiful purity to the early 911 that I fell in love with the first time I saw one in person.

The Porsche Club of America has a racing program, and their stock classes allow updating-backdating, so I could turn a base 911 into a '72 911S and campaign it in the appopriate stock class. Their stock classes are very nice, because they require stock-appearing interiors, street tires with significant tread, and the engines are supposed to be bone stock... So you can competitively campaign your daily driver.

Sadly, though, their entry fees are absurd. I really won't be able to do any racing unless I move to Australia... A dollar goes twice as far there. They don't seem so obsessed with insurance.

Yes, the only chassis and bodyshells worth restoring anymore from from the southwest. The southeast has been totally picked over, and everyplace else has salt on the roads during the winter.

Before any of you get too excited, I'm probably not going to be able to afford to do this anytime soon... It's the latest in a long line of car projects of mine that never got off the ground... Like the '70 Chevrolet Camaro with the stroked, aluminum-head, port-injected V8, six-speed tranny, and all sorts of modern updates... The MkIII Triumph Spitfire with Mazda rotary power... The turbocharged MX-5...

[garcon]

Originally posted by Lee Janotta
... The MkIII Triumph Spitfire with Mazda rotary power...

Lee, that alone answers your original question...

Insane? You're out of your tree, mate!

But in a good way!

[Lee Janotta]

Thanks... That one, I figured, would be a nightmare if I tried to a straight swap. I would have ended up putting a full tube chassis underneath the Spitfire's bodywork... Z-car rear end, torsion bar suspension at all four corners...

Oh, and I forgot about the Group 2-spec Chevy Corvair with the Holly 4-barrel induction... Not to mention the kit cars...

Damn, how do the mad scientists in the Bond films get their funding?

[DAVID PATERSON]

By far, the cheapest, easiest and most practical dream you've had is the turbo MX-5. Start there, and work your way up.

[Airhead]

A friend has a 944 Turbo - he regularly gets the thing hot in club events.

They seem the great under rated achievers of the stable. Look good too.

Why bother with a 911 just like everyone else's?

[Lee Janotta]

Ah, but the problem with the MX-5 or a 944 is that they're so common...

Those early 911s look nothing like the latter ones. Chrome trim, no damn ugly 5mph bumpers, and no tacky spoilers! Though I _do_ like the rear fender flares on the RS model.

Just a much cleaner, more classic look. Very few of these on the roads in the states, I've only ever seen two in person.

[Bluebottle]

Ah, yes, back when 911's looked good! What were those wings all about in the 80's- looks like a table strapped to the car!! (I've seen Beetles with those wings on- very silly!)

[Bluebottle]

(Oh, and yes you are insane by the way... )

[DAVID PATERSON]

Lee, make it easy on yourself, do an MX-5 first, for the experience. Then in a few years, when you do a porsche, you won't be a novice diving in at the deep end.

[Lee Janotta]

Hmm, y'know David, that actually sounds like the most reasonable idea.

Especially since I'd have to garage the Porsche for 3 months a year, due to the salt on the roads.

[ghinzani]

Yeah but the MX-5 is a handbag car so unless your goingt o start doing cut and blow drys ;-)......

talking of which anyone got any suggestions what I can do with my missuses mk1 MR2 ? apart from the obvious, and the feasibly impossible "turning it sideways and sticky up my rudy poo candy ass!"

[Lee Janotta]

Y'know, they say that Brits and Americans are separated by a common language...

from http://peevish.co.uk/slang/:Handbag: Noun. Style of 'house' music which has a more poppy and accessible quality, often 'crowd-pleasing'. [1990s]

I assume you're suggesting it'd make me look a tad light in the loafers?

Feh... It's still as close as I can come to getting what I want out of a recent production car. Lightweight, nimble, rear-drive, and with an open roof of some sort. It's a good 500 pounds lighter than an MR2, and cheaper to insure.

Also very comfortable... Fits me like a glove, the pedals, wheel and gearshift are all right where they should be.

[DAVID PATERSON]

Ghinzani, it's along way from a Celica to an MX-5. Sure, a lot of the owners, erm cross over, but that doesn't change the fact that the MX-5 is a very good everyday car and a true sports car as well.

[ghinzani]

who said Celica?? I drove an MX5 at Silverstone in about 1990/91 as part of a Mazda promotional day and was seriously dissapointed... maybe my hopes were too high! Conversly I had a low opinion of hairdresser wagons like MR2s and was pleasantly surprised by the ratty old mk1 around the lanes here on the Dorset/Hants border, maybe its the mid-engine - if only it stayed in 4th and 5th with any regularity!