Turning off the car in gridlock traffic. Good idea?

Sharky · 25 Mar 2006, 14:57 (Ref:1560381)

We've had a very intense rainy season in the past couple of weeks which has meant occasional flooding of some streets, common car breakdowns and eventual accidents.

Yesterday there was absolute gridlock as I was probably moving 30ft every 5 minutes. So, I decided that it would probably be a good idea to turn off the car when the traffic wasn't moving to save gas and the engine wear associated with idle conditions. I probably did this about 5 or 6 times. However, what could be the long run consequences on the starter motor?

Al Weyman · 25 Mar 2006, 15:20 (Ref:1560388)

Like any mechanical device you will pobably knacker it sooner than with normal usage.

This reminds me years ago some bright spark bought out this 'revolutionary device' for saving fuel. All it did was cutout the engine when you stopped and started it as soon as you dipped the clutch, needless to say it never took off!

Bluebottle · 25 Mar 2006, 16:58 (Ref:1560415)

Isn't there a country where it's a requirement to stop the engine at traffic lights etc?

Dave Brand · 25 Mar 2006, 17:04 (Ref:1560417)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluebottle

Isn't there a country where it's a requirement to stop the engine at traffic lights etc?

At a lot of traffic lights, level crossings, etc., in Germnay there are signs instructing drivers to stop their engines while stationary.

**Tim Falce** · 25 Mar 2006, 18:27 (Ref:1560444)

Providing your starter is up to the job, switching the engine off whilst stationary is a good idea, it saves fuel, wear on the engine and cuts pollution. I think the recommended time is about 5 seconds before you should switch off.

**bella** · 25 Mar 2006, 20:21 (Ref:1560497)

doesn't it use quite a bit of fuel to start it again though?

SALEEN S7R · 26 Mar 2006, 00:33 (Ref:1560686)

I think in certain situations here in the UK it could be a good idea, sat at traffic lights for 30 seconds - 1 minute however I really dont think it would make much differnce with regards to fuel consumption, if everyone did it though it might cut down a small ammount of pollution. The one time I would think turning off would be a good idea is if like me you have a gas guzzler and are literally stationary for minutes at a time on a motorway for example. As Bella has suggested I too think turning the car on and off for 30 secs to 1 minute would use more petrol/diesel than just letting the car idle for that short space of time.

**Tim Falce** · 26 Mar 2006, 07:35 (Ref:1561088)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bella

doesn't it use quite a bit of fuel to start it again though?

It depends how long you are going to leave it ticking over for and if you have to pump the accelerator to get it going again. That's where the recommended turning it off after 5 seconds (it may be longer) comes in.

Al Weyman · 26 Mar 2006, 08:04 (Ref:1561106)

Also how many cars are going to fail to hot start for one reason or another adding to the traffic chaos (ask anyone who was stuck behind me in the Brands Hatch paddock tunnel the other week when it happened to me!)

**Tim Falce** · 26 Mar 2006, 08:08 (Ref:1561108)

Why did you turn your engine off in the tunnel?
I think with the sort of chaos that Sharky was sitting in you wouldn't want to leave your engine running too long, you may choke to death.

Al Weyman · 26 Mar 2006, 08:22 (Ref:1561119)

I did'nt actually I stalled the thing and the battery went flat when I tried to restart so I had to get the one out the race car. But it does enthasise the point what can happen and the chaos it can cause if the thing won't refire for what ever reason and constant restarting after driving a few hundred yards will flatten the battery for sure.

thebear · 19 Apr 2006, 00:59 (Ref:1588188)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharky

However, what could be the long run consequences on the starter motor?

Probably no effect on the starter motor however it is possible to nick the starter drive/flywheel if you do not get a rapid start. Now that you have a newer ('03) car, I wouldn't worry about it.

One item to ponder is the latest hybrid (gas/electric) Toyotas & Hondas will shut down the gas engine automatically and start it up automatically when necessary due to load. Says a lot about their faith in the starter motors and associated components.

Mark Smith · 19 Apr 2006, 01:11 (Ref:1588193)

I used to own a VW Polo Formel E that had the stop start device on it and it drove me mad in traffic with it stopping and starting, especially on a cold day as it took ages for the engine to warm up and get some heat in the car if sat in traffic first thing in the morning.I only kept it 18 months and traded it in for another polo without the system.It had a 1272 petrol engine with a twin choke carb on it and was an absolute flyer!I once did a 190 mile trip in it in under 2 hours many years ago when the roads werent so busy.

Sharky · 19 Apr 2006, 01:51 (Ref:1588220)

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebear

Now that you have a newer ('03) car, I wouldn't worry about it.

Ha ha ha. I don't have a newer car. I still own my 96 pug 205. Of course, should fellow forum members find it in their heart to make a small donation to the "upgrade Sharky's car" fund then....*ejem*

The car starts up immediately after turning trhe key though. I never need second attempt nor continuous use of the starter.

However, I wouldn't do this at every traffic light or every time the car stops. I was wondering about its convenience during gridlock traffic where the car could be standing still for over a minute.

thebear · 19 Apr 2006, 16:21 (Ref:1588832)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharky

However, I wouldn't do this at every traffic light or every time the car stops. I was wondering about its convenience during gridlock traffic where the car could be standing still for over a minute.

You will definitely save gas however the quantity will never be noticed at your next `fill up'.

If you can get some self satisfaction from that, do it.

Al Weyman · 19 Apr 2006, 19:02 (Ref:1588994)

The new Citroen they are calling the 'Stop & Go' has this system fitted.

thebear · 19 Apr 2006, 19:42 (Ref:1589031)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

The new Citroen they are calling the 'Stop & Go' has this system fitted.

I would not be surprised if it was equipped with the starter AND the alternator integrated with the flywheel. This system was developed by Valeo and has the advantages of NO starter or alternator or belts on the outside of the engine. Saves space in the engine compartment and reduces overall weight. It also saves assembly and set up time prior to installation in the car body.

Al Weyman · 19 Apr 2006, 20:01 (Ref:1589051)

I think you brake and when you stop it shuts off then as soon as you let your foot off the brake it starts, not sure, I will have to listen harder to the radio ad as they are promoting it very strongly in London at the moment and giving you the equivalant of a years worth of congestion charge as a cash back, (over a grand!)

thebear · 19 Apr 2006, 22:03 (Ref:1589168)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

I think you brake and when you stop it shuts off then as soon as you let your foot off the brake it starts, not sure, I will have to listen harder to the radio ad as they are promoting it very strongly in London at the moment and giving you the equivalant of a years worth of congestion charge as a cash back, (over a grand!)

It probably starts when you step on the gas. That method (not the Valeo system) has been used in thousands of gas powered utility carts (similar to golf carts) for many years.

garcon · 20 Apr 2006, 11:47 (Ref:1589635)

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebear

One item to ponder is the latest hybrid (gas/electric) Toyotas & Hondas will shut down the gas engine automatically and start it up automatically when necessary due to load. Says a lot about their faith in the starter motors and associated components.

Hopefully, my next car will be a hybrid Lexus. Not only does it cut the petrol engine when stationary, it runs entirely on the electric motor at low speeds - so crawling along in traffic it uses no petrol at all!

I agree it says a great deal about Honda/Toyota's faith in their components. I have wondered what impact the system may have on the petrol engine - alot of stopping and starting, and then running on a cold engine isn't ideal for economy or longevity.

**Adam43** · 20 Apr 2006, 12:02 (Ref:1589651)

I do this for long waits. There is one particular level crossing which I know takes ages if you catch it wrong. Hand brake on, out of gear (or park) and engine off. It is a new car so I am confident of it starting!

Although I doubt many consider this. At this level crossing some sit with their foot on the brake the whole time (and for a long time). This would annoy me. Put the handbrake on and relax! Although that is a little of topic.

We shall probably see "stop & go" or similar on more cars and commercial vehicles. For vans that run round in town it can make quite a difference to the fuel economy and is a relatively cheap device to fit.

thebear · 20 Apr 2006, 12:07 (Ref:1589652)

Quote:

Originally Posted by garcon

I agree it says a great deal about Honda/Toyota's faith in their components. I have wondered what impact the system may have on the petrol engine - alot of stopping and starting, and then running on a cold engine isn't ideal for economy or longevity.

I belive that all the electronic controls will insure quick warmup at minimum fuel consumption/wear.

Honestly, how many cars have you owned that needed repairs attributed to start/stop/cold running?

These would primarily be piston ring problems. In fact do you know anyone who needed that type of repairs?

Sharky · 20 Apr 2006, 12:16 (Ref:1589661)

A friend of mine has a VERY old 1988 Chevy Monza (which was sold as an Opel Kaddet in Europe if I'm not mistaken). The starter motor fails from time to time and he's left stranded as it is the automatic version so there's no chance of starting it up by pushing it. Of course, what else could you expect out of a 18 year old car?

garcon · 20 Apr 2006, 12:56 (Ref:1589694)

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebear

Honestly, how many cars have you owned that needed repairs attributed to start/stop/cold running?

These would primarily be piston ring problems. In fact do you know anyone who needed that type of repairs?

None. It's more of a (very) long term wear issue, i.e. will the engine be good for 100-150k or 200k plus. And at least recently most of my cars have been fairly new. I did nasty things to a piston ring (or two) in a Mazda once, but that was oil starvation due to a dodgy oil pump...

**Adam43** · 20 Apr 2006, 13:00 (Ref:1589696)

Tests carried out on a Mercedes Sprinter fitted with "Start Stop" reported a 9.5% to 30.5% fuel saving (Fleet Van 23.02.06). It is easy to use and is easily over-ridden and also takes into account engine temperature. As I said these are cheap devides - £175!

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