Brabham BT23 - Page 5

allenbrown · 27 Jul 2006, 18:54 (Ref:1666101)

Welcome Dave

We have the history of that car as 1968-69 Bill Gubelmann; 1970-71: Al Justason; then maybe 1971-72 Michael Houselander. You say it was last raced by Justason. Where's it been since then?

Allen

Dave Darrow · 27 Jul 2006, 19:03 (Ref:1666108)

Quote:

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Welcome Dave

We have the history of that car as 1968-69 Bill Gubelmann; 1970-71: Al Justason; then maybe 1971-72 Michael Houselander. You say it was last raced by Justason. Where's it been since then?

Allen

I bought it from Dino Delousis (might have spelt it wrong) He bought it from Mike Houselander and installed a 2 litre pinto motor with a turbo,drove it at Mosport once,it was undriveable,so he pulled the motor and the car sat in his garage since about 1974.
I bought it from him about 2 years ago, have since got new proper bodywork,Brian Hart Big Valve Twincam, still need a windshield,header,fuelcell and some assembly time.

dave

allenbrown · 27 Jul 2006, 22:20 (Ref:1666280)

Thanks Dave

A Pinto turbo! What category would he have had that in?

Are you able to confirm the chassis number or has it lost its plate?

Allen

Dave Darrow · 28 Jul 2006, 18:28 (Ref:1666776)

Hi Allen:

in Canada we have a class called Formula Libra-anything with 4 wheels that doesn't if in any class runs in F.L.

i have the chassis plate in my hand,
Motor Racing Developments LTD

BT23F-1
the frame is stamped RF 44

dave

Bryan Miller · 2 Sep 2006, 23:08 (Ref:1700286)

Whilst trolling for other things I came across this one , way out of left field. Ted .???

Autosport , May 26th. 1977. page 42.

Eike Wellhausen, former E-type racer now has a Brabham BT23C , originally built for an American who had intended installing a Chevy V8 . It has never raced however , and Wellhausen turned up at Croft on Sunday with a 3-litre Cosworth unit.

There is a photo of the car and driver , complete with wings etc.

Bryan.

allenbrown · 10 Sep 2006, 21:34 (Ref:1707404)

Brabham BT23 in Atlantic trim with a BDA being raced in HSCC Bradburn & Wedge Pre-71 series by Peter Rogers. Was raced in F2 by Kurt Ahrens. This from the March 1984 HSCC Newsletter. Twas said that Mr Bradburn himself had run a similar car with a twin-cam at Snetterton at the end of 1983.

Rogers car is later (HSCC Newsletter Oct 1984 p14) listed as BT23C-8.

Andrew Fellowes · 10 Sep 2006, 23:02 (Ref:1707467)

Quote:

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Twas said that Mr Bradburn himself had run a similar car with a twin-cam at Snetterton at the end of 1983.[/b].

I was there, -it was painted white and I think there were only a handful of runners, perhaps just 4.
The Pre '71 series was to start the next year, this was just a test run.

allenbrown · 12 Sep 2006, 06:55 (Ref:1708539)

It always intruiged me that the series was referred to as the Pre-70 series in its first season (or two?) and yet allowed cars built up to 31/12/1971. Or was that just because David had a BT35?

Andrew Fellowes · 12 Sep 2006, 21:08 (Ref:1709177)

Heavens I had forgotten that Allen! More likely it was because of John Foulston, not that any rule would have worried John much.

There were mutterings but it helped fill the grids,

Andrew Fellowes · 30 Sep 2006, 04:22 (Ref:1723456)

I see last month (August) at Oulton there was a 23C raced by John Counsell, any ideas which one please?

allenbrown · 24 Oct 2006, 14:17 (Ref:1747630)

BT23C-12 revisited
1968 Frank Williams for Manfredini
1969 Frank Williams for Guthrie
1969? Bob Gerard for Widdows & Hart
1970-1 Gerry Tyzack
Gerry Tyack cracked four national speed records at Elvington in his F2 Brabham-FVA, variously reported as "his Brighton Speed trials winning car", ex-Widdows and "Brabham BT23C/12, the ex-Gerard Racing car". Autosport 8 Oct 1970 p41
1971 maybe Robin Darlington? –C.T.
(1971 A/S Nov.11th p.46 BT23C for sale ex Gerard less engine & gearbox and also Traco Chev, DG300)
1986 Adrian Thomas
1988-9 Kelvin Lambeth as per D.M
1990 Monte Shalett
1998 Mark Leonard/G.P. Motors, La Jolla, CA
Peter Bull

Andrew Fellowes · 4 Dec 2006, 23:06 (Ref:1782057)

Tasman Revival, Eastern Creek.

Phil Harris, BT23C-15

Andrew Fellowes · 4 Dec 2006, 23:20 (Ref:1782070)

Eastern Creek, Tasman Revival,
Brabham BT23D-1

Andrew Fellowes · 6 Dec 2006, 03:47 (Ref:1783001)

Spencer Martin in BT23D-1, -widely acknowledged as one of the outstanding drives of the Tasman Revival at Eastern Creek,

Andrew Fellowes · 6 Dec 2006, 04:03 (Ref:1783012)

BT23A, is that right it is a 1966 chassis as per entry for Tasman Revival?

David McKinney · 6 Dec 2006, 23:05 (Ref:1783688)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Fellowes

Tasman Revival, Eastern Creek.
Phil Harris, BT23C-15

Not the BT23C he raced in 1971-72 then

Andrew Fellowes · 7 Dec 2006, 03:41 (Ref:1783775)

7.12.17-15, A tangled web you weave

Andrew Fellowes · 18 Dec 2006, 06:21 (Ref:1793276)

I know there are some wobblies here, but I hope this more or less reflects the views held, I have got myself into a muddle with one, but here goes. There are also some Tasman cars here that I am very light on dates for.

BT23-1 RF5 FVA 7021
1967 Jack Brabham
1968 Irish Racing Cars/Tommy Reid
1969
1970 Walter Kinear
1971 A/S June 10th p.46 Nelson Todd in BT23-1 rebuilt to 23C spec.
1972 Roy Courtney
1973 Maurice Stirling
nothing more ‘till
1982 For Sale by Northdown Racing, Ropley, Surrey
1984 Jon Bradburn
1985 Andrew Fellowes
2004 John Moulds

BT23-2 RF6 FVA 7012
1967 Denny Hulme/Frank Gardner
1968 Walter Habegger?
1969 Picchio Rosso/Enzo Corti, (23-4 scratched on chassis)
1970 Vittorio Brambilla, last used at Tulln Langlebarn on the 13th September

BT23-3 RF8 FVA 7003
1967 Frank Gardner
1968 Xavier Perrot
1969 Destroyed by Perrot at Nurburgring 27th April
nothing more ‘till
2006 Thierry De Mortier, Silverstone May 20th ‘06

BT23-4 FVA 7008
1967 Winklemann for Rees
1968 Walter Habbeger
1969 Bruno Fray, (sometimes listed as Corti’s which was given the wrong chassis during a rebuild)

BT23-5
1967 Winklemann for Rindt & van Lennep
1968 Denny Hulme, accident NZ, Feo Stanton, Graham Hepburn (Les Sargent)
1981 Denis Lupton, Melbourne
1983 George Goodare, Sydney

BT23-6 FVA 7027
1967 Whitley Racing Services for Robin Widdows
to Mitsubishi for Colt F2?
1968 Dave Webster, Canada or #9 ?
2003 ex Widdows for sale by Paragon?

BT23-7
1967 Gerhard Mitter (chassis plate 9?)
1968 Werner Lindermann
1969 Werner Lindermann/Montan Racing
1970 Montan Racing/ Helmut Gall, last seen at Hockenheim on April 12th, then destroyed?

BT23-8 Alfa
1967 Nanni Galli
1968 Giorgio Pianta
1969 Etienne Vigoureux as F3 –see #9
1969 Claudio Francisci, Novamotor, 3rd Italian F3 Championship
reported in Italy 1990 C.T.

BT23-9
1967 David Bridges for Brian Redman
1968 Canada for David Webster? See #7 or Italy see #8

BT23A Repco 2493cc
1967 Jack Brabham
David McKay dates please?
Greg Cusack
Peter Simms

BT23B-1 2 litre FPF
1967 Mike Hawley A/S June 16th p.73
1968 Bob Rose A/S July 19th p.37
1969 Greg & Angus Mickel

BT23B-2
1967 Charles Vogele 3rd Monza May 28th
Willy Widar
Jean Louis Gillet
John Harper
Phillip Walker
2003 H & H Auctions Did not sell
2004 Legends

BT23B-3
1967 G Pitt
1968 Tony Lanfranchi
JD Lewis, Roy Pike, Jack Smith killed in the car('72?) , sold to Canada
1969 Mosport, Cordts entered by Paul Seitz
1970 Al Pease, July 1st Ottawa Grand Prix

BT23C-1
1967 Jack Brabham,Frank Gardner
1968 Troberg, Stiller for F3, Williams/Courage
1969 Graham McRae, Alister Walker
1970 Walter Kinnear? Bob Howlings. Rodney Seow, Singapore
1980 Mike Truter
1983 Brian Wilson & retains 2006

BT23C-2
1967 Frank Gardner
1968 F Lythgoe, P Gethin
1969 Whitmore, Don Godden
next seen
1973 A/S March 1st p.56 Low Cost racing for sale
1974 A/S November 28th p.57 ex Gethin for sale 01 567 3941
next seen
1982 for sale, Northdown Racing, Ripley, Surrey.
1982 Ian Web loaned to Mike Hartley for Gates-Varley Monoposto Series
nothing further

BT23C-3
A.C.A. ?

BT23C-4
1968 Chris Lambert, destroyed Zandvoort July 28th, fatal accident

BT23C-5
1968 Winklemann for Rindt, Vic Elford, accident Monza July 23rd New frame. Old frame sold to Ian lees who built up a new car, now owned by Frank Curcio Melbourne
1969 Graham Birrell
1973 Joe Applegarth
nothing more ‘till
2003 Justin Segal, Bloomfield, USA

BT23C-6
1968 Max Mosley, Frank Williams
1969 Peter Parnell or Garth McGillwie ZA see #10
1970 Arnold Charlton and sold back to the UK after the FVA failed.

BT23C-7 RF26
1968 Piers Courage
1969 Roly Levis, Baron Robertson, crashed by Levis
next seen Bobby Rahal, rebuilt by Clay Filson
2004 sold for $85,000

BT23C-8
1968 Kurt Ahrens
1969 Bernd Terbeck
nothing more ‘till
1977 Bill Morris
nothing more ‘till
1984 Peter Rogers
2006 David Brown

BT23C-9
1968 Derek Bell, accident June 3rd Crystal Palace, nothing futher

BT23C-10
1968 Malcom Payne
1969 Garth McGillwie or Peter Parnell, ZA, see #23C-6
1970 Tony Dean
1971 Bob Howlings, Rod Pickering
1972 For sale Rod Pickering
1972 Bob Howlings
1973 Bob Snelson
nothing more ‘till
2006 Private Collection, UK

BT23C-11
1968 Winklemann for Rees and Mitter
1969 Bill Ivey
1971 Brian Cullen, (mechanic Steve Mills)
1973 Harold & Gerry McGarrity
nothing more ‘till
1990 Mark Raymond or Rayment, UK
2004 for sale Maverick
2005 Sold Bonhams, RAF Hendon

BT23C-12
1968 Williams for Manfredini & Guthrie
1969 Bob Gerard for Widdows & Hart
1970 Gerry Tyzack
1971 Robin Darlington? C.T.
1971 November 11th for sale ex Gerard, less engine & gearbox
nothing more ‘till
1986 Adrian Thomas
1988-9 Kelvin Lambeth
1990 Monte Shalott
1998 Mark Leonard, GP Motors, La Jolla, CA
200? Peter Bull

BT23C-14
1968 Frank Williams for Carlos Piaretti, Cacho Fangio, Temporada

BT23C-15
1968 Eduardo Copello, Temporada, entered by Berta, retained for several years
2006 Phil Harris

BT23C-16
1968 Frank Williams for Juan Manuel Bordeu, Temporada,
1969 Piers Courage, Jackie Ickx
1970 Alistair Walker, Gagliardi, Marcello Gallo F3
1973 John Blades for sale
2004 Garry & Phil Simkin
2005 Private Collection, UK

BT23C-17
1968 Jorge Cuperio, Temporada
1969 Squadra Tartaruga/Xavier Perrot
1970 Kurt Beuss
see M/N 1972 Sept 7th
nothing more ‘till Phil Harris 19?? and retains
2006

BT23D-1 Alfa 272cc V8
1968 Frank Gardner
Kevin Bartlett
Spencer Martin
Jim Abbots, with Olds
Chris Murphy killed
dates etc please!

BT23E-1 RF21
1968 Jack Brabham, Tasman
Bob Jane, Bob Curran
Nothing more ‘till
1980-2 David Madres, Bill Marshall
1983 Ray Delaney, Melbourne and sold to Art Valdez

BT23F-1 RF44
1968-9 Bill Gubelmann
1970 Al Justasson, then Michael Houselander
sold to Dino Delousis then sold to
2004 Dave Darrow, Canada

BT23G-1

BT23G-2
1998 Restored by Tom Rust Engineering
200? Sold Race-Cars.com. $65,000. No history listed

Not allocated, -yet!
1973 Choat in a BT23C
1977 Eike Wellhausa BT23C

Steve Wilkinson · 18 Dec 2006, 11:19 (Ref:1793397)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Fellowes

I know there are some wobblies here, but I hope this more or less reflects the views held, I have got myself into a muddle with one, but here goes. There are also some Tasman cars here that I am very light on dates for.

BT23B-1 2 litre FPF
1967 Mike Hawley A/S June 16th p.73
1968 Bob Rose A/S July 19th p.37
1969 Greg & Angus Mickel

Minor correction: it is GRAY and AGNES Mickel who were a husband and wife team.

I will try to add some more dates to the hillclimb/sprint ownership and possibly additional owners where appropriate, however a tad busy at the moment!

Steve Wilkinson · 18 Dec 2006, 11:21 (Ref:1793399)

Quote:

Originally Posted by allenbrown

BT23C-12 revisited
1968 Frank Williams for Manfredini
1969 Frank Williams for Guthrie
1969? Bob Gerard for Widdows & Hart
1970-1 Gerry Tyzack
Gerry Tyack cracked four national speed records at Elvington in his F2 Brabham-FVA, variously reported as "his Brighton Speed trials winning car", ex-Widdows and "Brabham BT23C/12, the ex-Gerard Racing car". Autosport 8 Oct 1970 p41
1971 maybe Robin Darlington? –C.T.
(1971 A/S Nov.11th p.46 BT23C for sale ex Gerard less engine & gearbox and also Traco Chev, DG300)
1986 Adrian Thomas
1988-9 Kelvin Lambeth as per D.M
1990 Monte Shalett
1998 Mark Leonard/G.P. Motors, La Jolla, CA
Peter Bull

I have a feeling that Patsy Burt also drove the BT23C when Tyack owned it taking several records at the annual RAC Records week at Elvington.

David McKinney · 18 Dec 2006, 12:35 (Ref:1793468)

BT23A-1
To Scuderia Veloce (McKay) immediately after 1967 Tasman series. Drivers Greg Cusack and Phil West
Brian Page 1969-70 (including new Britton frame)

BT23Bs
I have the Hawley and Pitt numbers the other way around
Jack Smith raced UK 1969, and again in 1972 (when he was killed in it). He was Canadian, so may have retained ownership throughout that period. The car is believed to have been written off in the accident
I have a note of the ex-Mickel car being in Yorkshire in 2000

BT23C-1
Raced in NZ 1969 by Laurence Brownlie and Graham McRae, then McRae in Europe

BT23C-7
After Levis's crash (in Robertson's ownership), rebuilt to FF spec by Robertson and Phil Harris and subsequently raced in NZ by Harris and others. Rebuilt to original spec in 1980s and sold to Martin Smith in UK c1990

BT23C-17
Possibly imported to NZ by Baron Robertson as a replacement for BT23-7: the timing fits.
Alternatively, a different BT23C-17 built up by Robertson and Harris on a new chassis but incorporating bits from the crashed car, including the FVA. Raced by Robertson and others in NZ but destroyed in a nightclub fire c1978

allenbrown · 18 Dec 2006, 17:04 (Ref:1793775)

I'm confident the Hawley and Pitt cars are as Andrew has them.

The history of the car that went to Canada, BT23B/3, is not without difficulties. Jack Smith last races it in libre at Silverstone on 30 Aug and then John Cordts races it at St Jovite on 7 Sep. This seems a remarkably rapid journey from Silverstone to Canada and had put just the slightest element of doubt in my mind about Smith's car going to Canada.

Paul Seitz is given as the entrant while the car is in Canada. Al Pease uses it a couple of times in 1970 and the last time I have note of it racing in Canada is 11 Oct 1970 at Mosport.

I don't have any information on the car returning to England and the next information I have is Snetterton when Smith is killed in an accident. His obituary in Autosport (6 Jul 1972 p4) says that he bought the ex-Pitt car and raced it in 1969 before "sending it to Canada". It then says "this year the car was returned and and Smith was having his second race this season with the car".

Allen

Andrew Fellowes · 19 Dec 2006, 04:02 (Ref:1794264)

Is this 23C-17? Sold some time ago.

http://www.vprace.com/carsales/brab.htm

Andrew Fellowes · 19 Dec 2006, 05:10 (Ref:1794283)

1973 May 3rd Fuji, Sato Koichi, Brabham BT23/Ford (Allen I know you have that one too), it's as much a mystery as the second BT36.

Andrew Fellowes · 3 Jan 2007, 00:35 (Ref:1804388)

A bit more for the BT23-2 & BT23-4 muddle.
Autosport 1969
BT23-4 July 4th p.8 Enzo Corti, Scuderia Picchio Rossa, Rheims
BT23-4 Sept 18th p.36 Enzo Corti, Scuderia Picchio Rossa, Albi

Some others,
BT23-9 1969 A/S June 13th p.9 Werner Lindermann, Zolder.
BT23C-14 1969 A/S Jan 3rd p.10 fire damage repaired
BT23C-15 1969 A/S Jan 3rd p.12 driven by Carlos Reutemann

I have Phil Harris with BT23C-15 and BT23C-17 as of today, is that correct?

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