Why have you stopped/cut down your Marshalling?

[wickedwitch]

Originally posted by Shinners
I'm not going to be marshalling for a little while because I was viciously attacked by marauding Armco which left me with a fractured sternum, a reputation for falling over and someone who needs the Rescue Unit to do her hair!

The Pizzaman won't ever do my hair for me - so I'm a little jealous that he wanted to do yours. He must have a thing for blondes

[bastinscully]

since marshaling I`ve met couthard,mcnish,irvine,lauda and damon hill all have given time to talk to me and autographed my program. mind you it was goodwood and it was very relaxed, here`s to donnington this weekend a great days racing in prospect.

[QuickBrownFox]

Originally posted by Piglet

Turns out he's Henri Pescarola - I haven't quite lived that one down!

Consider yourself free of embaressment in my eyes Piglet, 'cos I've never heard of him (sorry if you're reading this Henri)

[icklimp]

Originally posted by garagegirl
hmm, i dont know if i should be replying to this, as im not technically a marshall, even though im a 'marshall' for brscc, in that, when i finally sort it out properlly i will have a marshall pass dog tag thing, and i help out in paddock office

Garagegirl, if you give up your time voluntarily to help at a race meeting you are a marshal, some people can look down on you if you don't wear orange but they are few and far between. Due to the fact i like to be able to use a loo without GPS i like to work in assembly/start/admin but having done this for 12 yrs i consider myself a fully paid up marshal, especially as over the last 4 years meeting have meant a train trip from newcastle. This meant cutting down on my meetings seriously, which brings me on to my own likes and dislikes.

Hillclimbs are wonderful, i love the marshals and drivers ( all hail wooley and crazystu, and mrscrazystu) but i gave up shelsley because of the attitude the organisers had to lunch breaks, this was over 4 years ago so it may have improved.

From very personal experience i appreciate a little recognition, so the award i got that came with a cash prize towards my train expenses was very welcome, especially as it is aimed at young marshals under 23 years old, and for those of you quick at maths i have been marshalling since i was 8. Club do need to improve their attitude towards marshals, and this is at all level of club motorsport, some are far better than others but none are ideal as yet.

If we keep debating like this maybe a few of us will hassle the organisers into doing something, we need to build closer relations between clubs so we can work together to put pressure in the right places. Any VSCC marshals feel free to contact me as local 'boot up the backside' person as i am launching the marshals guild newsletter mid-december and am building relations with the club office so they actually realise how hard we work. This helps if only in the fact that everyone in the club has one designated point of contact who can liaise with the office/commitee/drivers to actually try and do something.

RANT OVER

Maybe next year i'll come back to shelsley and wave at you from the other side of the bank, and then i might even consider joining mrs carzy stu in finish paddock

[garagegirl]

id be so embarrased if that were me, its the kinda thing i do too

[serverbrainfailure]

i'd go to more meets, at more different tracks, if there was a standard of paying travelling expenses/specialist equipment.
I don't need 1st class flights on a gold-plated 747 just the cost of the fuel would be nice. And I've never understood why we have to buy our own probans/steelies, wet weather gear is one thing - most of us are outdoorsy people anyway, but i really think motorsport as a body in this country can afford to supply the specialised kit.

[Tony_J]

Like the RAC did for the GP did a couple of years ago and everyone became a walking advertising hoarding!
Despite the perennial complaints from competitors and organisers about how expensive motorsport is, it's amazing how many meetings/races there are in the UK each year and by extension how much money is swashing around in the 'motorsport pot'. Just think how many commercial enterprises make a very nice living out of the sport. Yet how many would go bust if the lack of marshals resulted in the frequent cancellation of meetings. Yes I know the powers that be are looking at alternatives to 'people on the bank', but implementation is still some way off. For a while yet the sport is dependent on unpaid volunteers to keep a lot of others in gainful employment.

[serverbrainfailure]

Originally posted by Tony_J
Like the RAC did for the GP did a couple of years ago and everyone became a walking advertising hoarding!

hell i don't mind being an ad board, as long as they are providing us with the kit we need to do the job - many of the probans we have to BUY have sponsor's logos on them - but I'll be damned if i'll go to Bernie's private scalextric circus in order to get free overalls. the GP has become the epitome of everything we complain about on this forum!!

[Stuart Hill]

Certain hillclimbs and sprints offer free overalls to any marshal attending a certain percentage of meetings over a two year period. Around 60% I think but still a great idea. I haven't bought overalss for 5 yrs

[serverbrainfailure]

seems to me that hillclimbs/sprints have the right ideas... I really am going to have to get up to Harewood more often...

[Stuart Hill]

I think what Hillclimbs, Sprints, 750 MC and similar clubs have in common is that whilst it is still expensive to compete, the question of "Money-in-the-Pot" at the end of the day does not arise. NO-ONE will EVER get rich in monetary terms at any of these events but what they will gain, be they competitors or marshals, is friends that will still speak to you in twenty years, even if they have been lucky enough to progress elsewhere. Andy Priaulx, Honda TOCA driver, started on the hills and still has time for his old marshalling friends at any time during a TOCA meet!!!

I think the thing that really sticks in my throat is the fact the the most effort and appreciation seems to come from those that can least afford it!! I stand to be corrected, but in my experience, the clubs that give the most are the same ones that struggle to make a profit at the end of the year.

Does this mean that I'm lucky enough to still be part of Motor "SPORT" as opposed to Motor BUSINESS ????????

[pitpopsie]

I like being treated with respect above everything else, also being allowed to go to the loo (not easy for us girlies to widdle up a post). I dont mind the lunch hour thing aslong as I get to eat my sarnies!!

I hate bullies, and people who think they are better than you, after all we are all doing the same job, looking after the drivers!!!! just in different ways.

[wickedwitch]

Roughing it a bit is not great - but wouldn't make me cut down on marshalling - after all, nobody promised me a rose garden (or a portaloo). The respect issue is the big issue - it's a hobby and therefore should be enjoyable. When the "craic" is gone - then the marshals will go too.

[Stoowert]

We do seem to be getting a tad off the point here! I once had a pee next to Stirling Moss! At Brands Hatch, in the old Checkered Flag loo. Beat that, if you can!

As a "SCCA-o-phile" Can I say that in the USA, even at "Regionals" or clubbies to us, we marshals get:
1.Lunch, cooked in some cases!
2.Access to at least a portaloo without needing a 30min break in procedings.
3.An evening meal if needed.
4.A raffle
5.Due to the land-line system, EVERY marshal knows what is going on ALL the time!Plus an extensive use of intricate hand-signals mean no-one is ignored.
6.We get to talk to the drivers. Indeed, if they are "between cars" they will sign on as marshals. No really!
7.Race control is just a discipline of marshalling, anyone can do it.
8.If you do CART races, and sign on with SCCA, you will be presented with goodies, patches, pins - but no programme. But hey! Who cares. The communicator's pack includes an entry list for all the races. There is a down side, however. This is:
1. The cost of getting there!
2. Being accused of being Australian/South African/German/Dutch/evan Albanian once!
3. The politics between the rival organizing bodies. Goodness knows what Miami CART/ALMS race will be like. 3 differant orgaizations, CART, ALMS & SCCA, all using differant rules on the same weekend!
4. US marshals (Corner Workers) have the same major worries as us: an aging, dwindling number. I did a race at Buttonwillow in California once with a dear old sole. She must have been 65, but so keen!

I'm sorry to bang on about US racing but I get such a buzz out of it. I did a 2 day meeting at Second Creek Raceway in Colorado after flying up from Sebring and the temperature never got above 2 degrees all weekend, but boy, did I have a great time?

[sss]

whats the land line system?

[Stoowert]

Oh yes, I forgot my likes & dislikes:
Likes:
Having novices on my post. Breath of fresh air!
Close, fair racing. I don't do TOCA events any more!
Actually feeling my contribution counts
Getting blue flagging right!
Full grids of interesting cars - historics
Isle of Man hill climbs
Dislikes
Little Adolfs - yes, even some in orange!
Big Adolfs - I don't do GPs any more
Standing around for ages with nothing happening, then, no lunch or worse still, a group C race gets reduced to 2 laps because of the curfew!
I hate curfews. A little controvercial perhaps, but clubs tend to time their races to end at the curfew, rather than at a reasonable time!
Ignorant drivers who make us their excuse for crashing/overtaking under yellows etc
Watching a blue flagger waving like mad on the first lap of a race!
Radicals! I wont do events that have them listed.
Uniroyal VWs as above
I don't mind the weather. You only tend to notice the weather if the racing is boring or non-existant.
Early sign-ons just to get a reasonable post. BRSCC, Brands Please note!
I don't like the marshals raffle. Give us meal vouchers instead!

[Stoowert]

The land line is an open line from Race Control. All posts are connected all the time and they can send messages to any part of the track at any time. Rockingham have one. It was installed for CART but BARC are going to use it this weekend with ASCAR. Use it and you'll be convinced we should be pressing for this over here on all tracks. No more having to use phones to report a major accident when every second counts! Plus how about this - Someone sees car X dropping fluid. They pass this to race contol. The whole track is then aware of the problem - instantly. While in the US I asked how long CART have used this system. 20 years - at least! Not exactly rocket science!

[sss]

why is better than using a wireless walkie talkie that we use now

[Jim Lamb]

Originally posted by Woolley


'I once had a twenty minute chat with Chris Rea at Donington, and only found out he was famous when the other marshals asked for his autograph'.

Can better that one Chris. Sat eating Dinner in a Hotel with some Lotus 7 people, in walks windswept gent, Leather jacket, overnight bag etc. Offered a seat next to me. Only when he asked us all if anyone wanted a 'Bevvy' did I realise it was Chris Rea. Thoroughly enjoyable evening and he Autographed my hastily purchased CD next day. Nice guy! ;-)

One of those enjoyable Marshaling events. Sadly no more for me. See later posting.
Rgrds, Jim Lamb

[Jim Lamb]

I hate to admit this but I was 'lurking' round the Marshals sites checking on friends etc. Stuart's question has urged me to write the following (apologies for the length).

Earlier this year I decided that I would stop being Involved with Motorsport. Not an easy decision! Those that know me will know I have been around since the early 80's.
I have a passion for Motor Sport and especially the older cars & circuits. But something had to give and in the end it had to be me. I was so angry with so many people and despite making representations to numerous people was not being listened to.

The plain and simple fact is that the organisation of the volunteer workforce (Marshals) in this country is a Joke,And the rot starts right at the top.
- The organisations & people that say they represent Marshals, DONT! Nor do they have any Influence.
- Organisers/Promoters/Clubs are increasingly taking it for granted that you'll turn out, just for 'the love of the sport' (See the MSA survey, mentioned previously).
And to cap it all, something very close to my heart!
- The MSA cannot even organise the Licencing,Assessment & Training of Rescue Crews properly nor do they seem to care.

So I stopped going, and guess what its great. I'm happy spending more time with my family and if I want I can watch it all on TV and I can read about all the same Issues & gripes I've been trying to doing something about, here on the web, sat in the comfort of my own home, without getting up at some unearthly hour, being taken for granted, no lunch break, finishing late because some ****** of a CoC is doing third runs at a Hill Climb or running an endurance race starting at 18:30hrs etc etc I could go on, but wont.

What I will say to you all is that until a lot of people 'DIE' through the proven negligence of the MSA, Organisers or Senior Officials of an event, nothing will change. The simple reason is that 'Bottom Line' you are volunteers. Guess what? the normal laws of this country regarding Health, Safety and therefore your wellbeing dont apply unless your a 'Worker'. The powers that be, are very careful not to describe Marshals as such. They just dont care.

I have said for a number of years that the big circuits will address the dwindling numbers of Volunteer Marshals by going to Vehicle based Incident response with a small number of people who will be on the payroll. [Look at Track days].

The smaller clubs will still have to rely on volunteers, as they always have, because they wont be able to afford it. They will increasingly be squeezed out of the Circuit venues and rely on 'Speed Venues' to run their events. Which In theory is great providing, they remember the people on the bank who are doing it for 'the love of the sport'. Unfortunately we all know that there are a number of clubs and their officials that have forgotten about You and I. In the end it is those Inconsiderate people who are driving Marshals away from the sport and detering others from Joining.

I have to say I am very sad to have walked away from something I used to love being involved in & The hundreds of friends I have spent time with over the last 20 years. But it isn't for me anymore.

I wish those of you that continue a safe and enjoyable time.
Kind regards,

Jim Lamb.

jim@lambnet.freeserve.co.uk

[Piglet]

Jim,

It's sad to see someone leave particuarly when they have given so much to the "sport".

I agree with your sentiments, it seems to me that those that "can" are not really interested in dealing with the issues raised by Marshals; making things better involves money and this seems to be something that they are (on the whole) either unwilling or unable to do.

Enjoy taking it easy, it's quite nice to have a life back again isn't it?

[Stuart Hill]

I sent you my personal reply JIm, so here's the public version. Many, many thanks for your support, constructive critisisms and your many examples of "how-to-do-it-right"!!. You will be missed but as with all hobbies, the day you stop enjoying it is the day to stop.

All the very best for the future and maybe we'll see you sometime on the other side of the fence!!

Be safe and thanks again

[Woolley]

Jim, sorry you've given up - I wondered where you'd gone. You'll be missed, though, keep in touch.

Land line system: brilliant. Experienced it at Rockingham Champ Cars and I can see no excuse for it not being introduced everywhere. Every post knows what is going on - communication in both directions. Dodgy cars, lunatic battles, overtaking under yellows are all reported, known to be reported and confirmed by adjacent posts. If something is up, the following posts know what to look for, and properly informed decisions can be made quickly. I'm pleased the ASCARS are now using it, the slow telephone system previously in use made it look amateur next to CART, and it wasn't the fault of the people on course. It took 1½ laps to get a yellow out for a car in the wall because the observer had to ring race control. Champ cars took 1½ seconds using the land line!

Good news: Well done BRSCC Midlands re Donington. OK, there were no lunch breaks, but they provided lunch, goodies (T-shirt, poster, magazine) arranged freebies from the organisers (Eurosport hats and t-shirts, quality raffle prizes and ensured they were properly delivered all around the circuit). The programmes ran to time, and finishing times were good. More of the same please, because for once, I felt as if they were pleased to have us there, and in the end, that's all we need to know. Thank you.

[Stoowert]

So, we're all agreed then. The land-line must be promoted by the marshal,s club and by any other means right? Anyone who was at Brands at Clearways yesterday (Sunday) for the Caterhams will have seen the farce of the Caterham Roadsports race stoppage. It took nearly 2 laps to get the black & yellow flags displayed, only for the rescue unit to arrive on the scene and insist on a red flag. The sight of a full field of Caterhams arriving at the scene of the accident at speed, with one car broadside accross the track and another, with driver still in situ, on the edge of the track was truly scary. I could go on but wont. No doubt this will not feature in Autosport's report on Thursday...

[Flagman]

And it will make very little difference...

Mrs Flagman frequently mans the phones in race control at various circuits - the REAL cause of delays in reacting to requests for red/black'n yellow flags is trying to a) find the appropriate official to make the decision - b) getting them to actually make a decision.

This can be compounded by many meetings now having a plethora of CofC's, and at circuits that have CCTV, the CofC wanting to look at the screen to make a judgment.