Big hit at the island??

[ivision]

WOW...I can't believe how popular my photos have been...I just joined tonight hoping to upload my photos of the crash but they have already made their way here. Glad to hear the drivers are ok. After the first few cars flying off the circuit I didn't have to wait long til Teulan came along...then it was just a matter of following and capturing as best I could. I'm happy with the results but with more experience I would've loved to have captured it much clearer.

I also have photos of the O'Halloran F430 flying off the road soon after the crash, but fortunately it only ended up in the gravel.

[ivision]

The extent of the damage to the Lotus! Couldn't get much of a shot of the Ferrari because the damaged side was facing away from my viewpoint.

[Silver 3]

Peter,great to hear from you here. A lot of people were very concerned for you and terrific to hear you are OK.

[Reload]

Originally Posted by ivision

The extent of the damage to the Lotus! Couldn't get much of a shot of the Ferrari because the damaged side was facing away from my viewpoint.

Mmm, a little bit more than buffing required there.

[ff s conscience]

Originally Posted by peterelise

Not sure about getting back on the horse and I suspect the current horse will be put down. Not making any decisions right now but to come away feeling lucky that my car happened to be in a position where it took the impact front on and John's on the passenger side is very sobering. We shouldn't be relying on luck to feel comfortable about going on track...

Peter, you've been through something incredible and survived almost unscathed.... you're a VERY lucky man...

RUN WITH IT...

Go shopping asap and come back fighting fit in a faster better car and win some more races!

[anthony81901]

Originally Posted by Southern Man

Or arriving at the circuit with the wrong car

Or trying to claim the car is newer than it really is, whilst trying to give it pedigree by listing drivers who drove it before it was supposedly built, ie Brock and Mezera who both raced the car in 2001. Still a side show, good news to here that both guys are ok.

[Rachel Richards]

With the Stewards apparent keenness to threaten licence suspensions & monetary penalties on the weekend, does anyone know if many charges were laid/hearings held, investigating all the incidents that happened on the Sunday ?

One might surmise that drivers were not driving to the conditions; surely, following tradition, there was a quid to be earned into CAMS consolidated revenue there !

[Nero]

Originally Posted by lowgto

Mmm, a little bit more than buffing required there.

It actually looks to have done very very well - little cabin deformation, whilst the rest is destroyed - almost perfect given the impact!
Get well Peter.

[pariah]

Originally Posted by Rachel Richards

With the Stewards apparent keenness to threaten licence suspensions & monetary penalties on the weekend, does anyone know if many charges were laid/hearings held, investigating all the incidents that happened on the Sunday ?

One might surmise that drivers were not driving to the conditions; surely, following tradition, there was a quid to be earned into CAMS consolidated revenue there !

looks like a sunny day day and a dry track..driving to conditions? there was oil on the track..cars lose grip in oil, irrespective of the driver...

it would probably be more appropriate to ask what the flag marshalls/officials were thinking and doing (or not thinking and not doing). A car comes off at turn 1 at phillip island (the fastest corner in australia?) and the red flag isn't immediately out? if that's not a reason enough to stop the session, surely the near miss of the white lotus spinning off prior to Teulan's arrival should have been enough of a hint? this carnage could have been avoided and 2 beautiful cars would not have been sacrificed..and more importantly 2 or more lives would not have been in placed in jeopardy

[davelise]

Well said pariah. The incident certainly shook me up and the way it was handled by race control made me question my safety just a little bit more...

Get well Pete and hope to see you at the track soon.

[fomoco]

Originally Posted by pariah

it would probably be more appropriate to ask what the flag marshalls/officials were thinking and doing (or not thinking and not doing). A car comes off at turn 1 at phillip island (the fastest corner in australia?) and the red flag isn't immediately out? if that's not a reason enough to stop the session, surely the near miss of the white lotus spinning off prior to Teulan's arrival should have been enough of a hint?

Wow , You are right onto it there. NOT. Firstly, at a Flag Point, the MArshalls will display flags as required, yellow , blue whatever. A flag point reports to Race Control if there has been an incident. It is not, I repeat It is not up to a Flag Marshall to put out a RED FLAG. That is Race Controls decision.

SO please before posting comments about Flag Marshalls, make sure you have a complete understanding of their role. Don't think or comment on what they do, as they directed to carry out activities via Race Control.

I am pretty sure this has been covered before on this FORUM.

[davelise]

In this instance Race Control should have called Red flag immediately. They saw the car from the tower and they saw the engine blow = oil.

However, they did not call Red in time and there were no oil flags displayed in time. Look at the time stamps on the photos. It was 58seconds between Peter going off and John hitting the oil. In the meantime 3 other cars had spun in the oil, the first of which actually managed to drive to the next flag point to report the oil. I understand this is not the place to discuss this but I for one want some answers.

[Silver 3]

Originally Posted by davelise

In this instance Race Control should have called Red flag immediately. They saw the car from the tower and they saw the engine blow = oil.

However, they did not call Red in time and there were no oil flags displayed in time. Look at the time stamps on the photos. It was 58seconds between Peter going off and John hitting the oil. In the meantime 3 other cars had spun in the oil, the first of which actually managed to drive to the next flag point to report the oil. I understand this is not the place to discuss this but I for one want some answers.

For the record-- they cannot see from the tower--they did see on CC TV- not sure of what angle the camera shows. Not the only time that cars were left in potentially dangerous place. You would think the presence of a car and the oil would have warranted a red flag.

[pariah]

Originally Posted by fomoco

Wow , You are right onto it there. NOT. Firstly, at a Flag Point, the MArshalls will display flags as required, yellow , blue whatever. A flag point reports to Race Control if there has been an incident. It is not, I repeat It is not up to a Flag Marshall to put out a RED FLAG. That is Race Controls decision.

SO please before posting comments about Flag Marshalls, make sure you have a complete understanding of their role. Don't think or comment on what they do, as they directed to carry out activities via Race Control.

I am pretty sure this has been covered before on this FORUM.

i note you selectively highlighted the flag marshals in quoting me...i did also mention officials, which i'm sure would cover race control. in any case, how long should it take for a flag marshal to radio to RC that a car has spun off at T1 and for RC to respond with the appropriate action?

[rich07]

Peter great to hear from you, that would've been quite scary and I'm glad that you and John weren't seriously injured in the crash (a broken leg is bad but it could have been a LOT worse). Just looking at the pics of the crash and the aftermarth makes me wince. Shame about the Lous, if indeed it isn't repairable it'll be sad not to see the little yellow terror keeping the Aus GT field honest lol. Another Lotus perhaps??

[TCR]

Glad to hear Peter and John came away relatively unscathed, that is the most important thing.

It's also a real shame to see another couple of GT cars damaged so badly, firstly for the owners and secondly for the category. The category was starting to gather some momentum again, hopefully both Peter and John and get either those cars or new cars back on the track shortly.

Get well soon guys, Paul.

[fomoco]

Originally Posted by pariah

i note you selectively highlighted the flag marshals in quoting me...i did also mention officials, which i'm sure would cover race control. in any case, how long should it take for a flag marshal to radio to RC that a car has spun off at T1 and for RC to respond with the appropriate action?

that my friend is what a lot of flaggies ask themselves. We convey information and await there call.

[fomoco]

Originally Posted by davelise

In this instance Race Control should have called Red flag immediately. They saw the car from the tower and they saw the engine blow = oil.

However, they did not call Red in time and there were no oil flags displayed in time. Look at the time stamps on the photos. It was 58seconds between Peter going off and John hitting the oil. In the meantime 3 other cars had spun in the oil, the first of which actually managed to drive to the next flag point to report the oil. I understand this is not the place to discuss this but I for one want some answers.

Fair call, but once again, it is up to Race Control to decide and advise flag points. A drebi flag or Yellow flag is normally put out at the point proceeding the incident. One of the problems with most Aust tracks is that the Flag Points do not always have a line of sight between each other and Race control has to send a sector or a member from a flag point to check and confirm if there is a foreign substance on the racing line or track.

Yes I agree with you , there seems to be a delay in communication and notifying the racers of a foreign substance and red flagging that particular event.

Hopefully there will be some good come out of this to improve the way all events are managed.

[cavvy]

Originally Posted by davelise

In this instance Race Control should have called Red flag immediately. They saw the car from the tower and they saw the engine blow = oil.

However, they did not call Red in time and there were no oil flags displayed in time. Look at the time stamps on the photos. It was 58seconds between Peter going off and John hitting the oil. In the meantime 3 other cars had spun in the oil, the first of which actually managed to drive to the next flag point to report the oil. I understand this is not the place to discuss this but I for one want some answers.

Dave there was an incident earlier this year in Superkarts where Race Control scrambled the medics without flags putting both the competitors & the medics at real risk.

Lets hope those responsible provide some feedback to you & review their procedures.

[Rachel Richards]

Originally Posted by cavvy

Dave there was an incident earlier this year in Superkarts where Race Control scrambled the medics without flags putting both the competitors & the medics at real risk.

Lets hope those responsible provide some feedback to you & review their procedures.

I believe it was the same event organisers that have made some crucial errors on two occasions this year at PI.

I wonder what sort of accountability there is for these people, who do they answer to ? (and please nobody say The Coroner)
It seems that lessons are not being learnt from past errors.

What sort of minimum standards are there to be in these positions, apart from potentially "being a good bloke" or at the least "a mate of someone in charge"

It is widely recognised that PI is a fast and dangerous place to compete at, will these same people be calling the shots at the V8's in September, and let's hope a similar mistake isn't repeated then.

[alfacors]

Some info on officials and licencing and grading
http://www.cams.com.au/Content.asp?PageID=Officials

[MPA]

One hopes that Race Control did not waste critical time trying to find the problem on the PackCentre CCTV.

[PVDA]

Originally Posted by Rachel Richards

It is widely recognised that PI is a fast and dangerous place to compete at, will these same people be calling the shots at the V8's in September, and let's hope a similar mistake isn't repeated then.

It's ok Rachel, the Tim & Tomas show will be there to guide them (am I missing a mis in there somewhere).

Being serious are both incidents an example of RC relying on the CCTV rather than the word of the guys on the ground. There are so many things that could've caused the delay and not wanting to apoint blame here are a couple I can think of;

• Info over loop to RC not accurate enough
• Info not passed onto CoC to allow timely & accurate decision
• RC waiting to swing CCTV camera around to confirm before committing to Red Flag
• CoC made bad decision and got bitten in the behind by it as a result

I've been in Race Control at all the tracks in Victoria and seen how it works, I've seen decisions made which in hindsight were wrong but with the info at hand at the time (not a week later) was the correct one to make at the time.

Race Control is only as good as the guys in the field who pass the info over radio and then the RC radio operator to interpret the info and quickly feed that through to the CoC to make the decision in a timely fashion.

It's also important for the RC radio operator to have a trackside background, it's been said many times that the person running the flag loop must be able to speak fluent "flaggie" in that they will understand what's going on out there because they've been there themselves. This is why at Winton & Calder the Flaggie loop operator is almost always a current VFT member.

[cavvy]

Originally Posted by PVDA

It's ok Rachel, the Tim & Tomas show will be there to guide them (am I missing a mis in there somewhere).

Being serious are both incidents an example of RC relying on the CCTV rather than the word of the guys on the ground. There are so many things that could've caused the delay and not wanting to apoint blame here are a couple I can think of;

• Info over loop to RC not accurate enough
• Info not passed onto CoC to allow timely & accurate decision
• RC waiting to swing CCTV camera around to confirm before committing to Red Flag
• CoC made bad decision and got bitten in the behind by it as a result

I've been in Race Control at all the tracks in Victoria and seen how it works, I've seen decisions made which in hindsight were wrong but with the info at hand at the time (not a week later) was the correct one to make at the time.

Race Control is only as good as the guys in the field who pass the info over radio and then the RC radio operator to interpret the info and quickly feed that through to the CoC to make the decision in a timely fashion.

It's also important for the RC radio operator to have a trackside background, it's been said many times that the person running the flag loop must be able to speak fluent "flaggie" in that they will understand what's going on out there because they've been there themselves. This is why at Winton & Calder the Flaggie loop operator is almost always a current VFT member.

So is PI acceptable or should something done?

[275 GTB-4]

Originally Posted by cavvy

So is PI acceptable or should something done?

I think that should read "is VIC acceptable"....I have seen first hand some odd decisions and cock-ups made by Car Club officials running VIC meetings.

Anyone running meetings should have hard earned bona-vides...I agree with the comments about fluent Flaggie as well...

Does anyone know if any Flag Point requested a lack of adhesion flag?? It is normal for other points to interject where necessary...however, if you have undisciplined chatter, these time-critical calls can sometimes be lost