Interesting Item on New Chassis in Indy Star (Merged)

[Amar7605]

I may sound weird here, but I do like the Delta Wing concept. Sure, it's not a true open-wheel car (in fact, my first impression was a NASCARed-up Indy car), but what the hell, perhaps the IRL needs to roll the dice here.

And as silly as it may sound but from a business standpoint it probably has the best body to better advertise sponsors.

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Even if Honda are the only engine manufcturer on board, delaying the new chassis for another year would be detrimental. There is a growing excitement at the prospect of a new chassis amongst race fans. It's seen as finaly ending these last few years terrible years of US open wheel racing. There is a new CEO, Randy Bernard on the board, a good start to this season and finally there's light at the end of the tunnel an end to stagnation. 2013; thirteen's an unlucky number for some.

Plus, apparently we're all gonna die from some unexplained phenomena in 2012, so it'd be nice if we could at least see the rebirth of AOWR before we're all killed off.

[JagtechOhio]

This "ICONIC" deal is starting to make me feel a little bit uneasy, after reading the interview with (ret.) General Looney.

I can appreciate the wisdom of bringing in an "outsider" like Randy Bernard as the CEO, since he brought with him the experience and connections of a sucessful marketer and broadcast partner. He's smart enough to listen, so he's smart enough to make good decisions.

#1) Now we have an Air Force General to chair the panel for selection of the next IndyCar. OK, he can bring his supervisory skills and a high level of technical knowledge from the aerospace sector. And he's watched the Indy 500 on TV a few times, too.

#2) Since Mr. Bernard has ruled out Mr. Angstadt and Mr. Barnhart, that probably leaves Les Mactaggert as the IICS Management rep. Smart guy, maybe carrying an agenda along with him. He (or Jeff Horton, or whoever) will have the safety data covered.

#3) The owners will probably select someone who will be representing the Delta Wing Group. Whether that's Mr. Ganassi or someone else, it will be a smart guy with an agenda.

#4) The engine expert? Has to be Roger Griffiths or somebody from Honda Performance Development. They appear to be the only players on the engine front, and it makes no sense to pick an outsider to add input when HPD are the ones who will be adding the power. They will have a preferred agenda, and no reason to yield against pressure to change it.

#5) And there will be a marketer/ promoter added? For what purpose I'm not sure, unless it's to remind everyone that the car has to look good with stickers on it. Designing a race car which permits good competition and prioritizes driving skill is the requirement. If the result is an exciting show, there's not much a good marketer/ promoter could do to screw it up. But he can't sell boring racing, nor make technical contributions to the design which will end it.

#6) So there will also be a racing engineer included, and he'll have a lot of work to do. First, he can't be a member of an existing IndyCar team: won't have the time, and might have an agenda just like the Team Owner's rep does. Second, he better be smart enough to analyze new design concepts: ie, as smart as Ben Bowlby et al. Third, he has to know as much about race car construction as he knows about vehicle dymanics.
Tall order. Too bad Mr. Chapman isn't around....

Who's that guy going to be? And who else do you add to understand and evaluate design and manufacturing criteria: a driver's rep? A fan rep?

This doesn't look like a tasty goulash to me. Maybe you can point out what I am missing.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

This "ICONIC" deal is starting to make me feel a little bit uneasy, after reading the interview with (ret.) General Looney.

I can appreciate the wisdom of bringing in an "outsider" like Randy Bernard as the CEO, since he brought with him the experience and connections of a sucessful marketer and broadcast partner. He's smart enough to listen, so he's smart enough to make good decisions.

Points #1-6

This doesn't look like a tasty goulash to me. Maybe you can point out what I am missing.

Apart from Point #6, which is undecided this seems alright, however the appointment of (ret.) General Looney is somewhat unusual. So what is it you find that isn't tasty?

[JagtechOhio]

Its a supervisor who doesn't know race cars, three guys who do and each have an agenda, one guy who is supposed to be objective and omniscient, and two guys who don't know a hoot about designing or building race cars. Unless #7 is a driver's rep with a very high degree of contemporary race car engineering knowledge.

How does a group like that build a consensus?

[Purist]

Would Nigel Bennett (engineer of the 1994 Penskes) be an option for #6?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

Its a supervisor who doesn't know race cars, three guys who do and each have an agenda, one guy who is supposed to be objective and omniscient, and two guys who don't know a hoot about designing or building race cars. Unless #7 is a driver's rep with a very high degree of contemporary race car engineering knowledge.

How does a group like that build a consensus?

I must have misunderstood, it appeared from what you were saying, that the people you thought might fill most of the seats on this board would make a good mix.

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

Its a supervisor who doesn't know race cars, three guys who do and each have an agenda, one guy who is supposed to be objective and omniscient, and two guys who don't know a hoot about designing or building race cars. Unless #7 is a driver's rep with a very high degree of contemporary race car engineering knowledge.

How does a group like that build a consensus?

Maybe they should get Paul Tracy. He's out of a full time job.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

Maybe they should get Paul Tracy. He's out of a full time job.

He's a only a year older than Schumi, so why not?

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

#6) So there will also be a racing engineer included, and he'll have a lot of work to do. First, he can't be a member of an existing IndyCar team: won't have the time, and might have an agenda just like the Team Owner's rep does. Second, he better be smart enough to analyze new design concepts: ie, as smart as Ben Bowlby et al. Third, he has to know as much about race car construction as he knows about vehicle dymanics.
Tall order. Too bad Mr. Chapman isn't around....

Who's that guy going to be? And who else do you add to understand and evaluate design and manufacturing criteria: a driver's rep? A fan rep?

This doesn't look like a tasty goulash to me. Maybe you can point out what I am missing.

If #7 is a drivers rep... Alexander Wurz is a smart cookie but he's never driven an oval, so he's out. Bryan Herta? Scott Sharp?

#6 sounds like Adrian Reynard to me.

[JagtechOhio]

Good notions, Jimmy.

Perhaps Rahal Sr.? He has some overview of design and construction from Truesports and Jaguar days, at least he could interpret the engineering data.

Renard is good, what is he up to now? Might be too cozy with the BAT team members, I don't know.

I was looking at Elan/ Panoz guys too, but don't know much about them. Simon Marshal and David Bowes were two names I came up with: Superleague experience and Van Demien F2000 feeder series chassis.

[JagtechOhio]

Jimmy, Reynard would be perfect. But I think he has too much history with Ashmore and Wardrop.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

Jimmy, Reynard would be perfect. But I think he has too much history with Ashmore and Wardrop.

You're right, didn't even think about that. Anyway, I'm better with the Brits than Americans, so I'd add Jon Barnard, Gary Anderson and Robin Herd (now that'd be something) to the list.

[JagtechOhio]

You're way ahead of me, I'll do some more homework.

Let's hope the same sort of thoughtful deliberation is going on in other places, yes?

[bjohnsonsmith]

They won't be calling on Ken Anderson for his services.

[JagtechOhio]

That would require deliberate unthoughtfulness.

Not sure if that's a real term or not....

I know USF1 and Falcon aren't.

[bjohnsonsmith]

This sheds a little more light on how the IRL board or committee, that will decide on chassis and engines will be set up.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/82295

[JagtechOhio]

Looks like "ICONIC" is on a fast track, Gil De Ferran was elected as the team owner's representative today. The other members are to be selected next week:

http://www.whowon.com/sResults.asp?S...StoryID=286286

Gil's a great choice, as he has the team leadership background and engineering expertise. I was thinking along those lines and came up with Bobby Rahal as the driver's rep, But Gil is better.

So now...no Delta Wing owner on the board. The announcement for the new chassis supposedly to arrive before the Delta Wing prototype is completed in August...

Doesn't that make it look like Delta Wing has already been selected, or rejected? I think IICS will choose Dallara. What all of the other owners do in response who are Delta members (which De Ferran is not) is still the question.

Do they say, "You're right, Mr. Bernard, this wasn't really a good idea after all"??

[bjohnsonsmith]

Gil de Ferran is an excellent choice but why assume IICS will choose Dallara and if so, which one of their concepts?

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

Looks like "ICONIC" is on a fast track, Gil De Ferran was elected as the team owner's representative today. The other members are to be selected next week:

http://www.whowon.com/sResults.asp?S...StoryID=286286

Gil's a great choice, as he has the team leadership background and engineering expertise. I was thinking along those lines and came up with Bobby Rahal as the driver's rep, But Gil is better.

So now...no Delta Wing owner on the board. The announcement for the new chassis supposedly to arrive before the Delta Wing prototype is completed in August...

Doesn't that make it look like Delta Wing has already been selected, or rejected? I think IICS will choose Dallara. What all of the other owners do in response who are Delta members (which De Ferran is not) is still the question.

Do they say, "You're right, Mr. Bernard, this wasn't really a good idea after all"??

I'm going to take a gamble and say all this is smoke and mirrors for a sale of the series and the speedway. And a delaying tactic to keep the last few irl holdouts from panicking and fleeing.

The irl has been blubbering for years about a new engine formula and chassis formula. What has happened? Well a lot of meetings have been held but otherwise bugger all.

What you have in 2010: Dallara Honda
What you have in 2011: Dallara Honda
What you are likely to have in 2012: Dallara Honda

So I think all this talk and having meetings and committees is to keep the dying remnants of the once great sport in the last few papers and online news services that care and to keep hope alive for the last few irl holdouts bunkered up.

It will be just enough hopefully to keep the pulse going until the series can be spun off to some sucker out there and the speedway sold to keep all the hulman george posse in style.

It's possible that there could be an announcement and there could be some plans put in place. But I think they are trying to get all the ducks in the row to get this dog sold off and until the new owners are at the helm, I wouldn't worry much until then.

[JagtechOhio]

Star, I'm still not seeing the need to sell IMS,so long as there is a prifitable IndyCar event to run there every year.

Selling the IICS is another story. I think they should sell the contracts and sanctioning to Delta, and let the owners do whatever they want. IICS either selects the Delta, or they reject it and expect no fight in the aftermath. Not likely.

Choosing Dallara makes money for IMS IICS, Indianapolis and Indiana. As for the specific design, if that's what this panel is really all about, they will select a final configuration that has wheel fairings pictured in the red Dallara #3 rendering.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

Choosing Dallara makes money for IMS IICS, Indianapolis and Indiana. As for the specific design, if that's what this panel is really all about, they will select a final configuration that has wheel fairings pictured in the red Dallara #3 rendering.

Why does choosing Dallara make money for IMS and IICS as opposed to the Swift chassis. The Swift chassis is based on their F Nippon chassis, which is a known quantity?

[JagtechOhio]

Swift is built in California. Lola will be built in England, with some component and manufacturing and distributuion transferred to Indy.

Dallara is an established associate who will build a manufacturing facility on the side lawn of the Speedway. Jobs, tax revenue, real estate sales, satellite businesses, credit for incumbent mayor Ballard and the Speedway Redeveloment Commission.

[bjohnsonsmith]

I thought Lola were going to have the car built in the US?

[JagtechOhio]

Not the tubs, according to McCool. The rest is ambiguous.