Interesting Item on New Chassis in Indy Star (Merged)

[bjohnsonsmith]

F1's been paying lip service to a Green agenda for years and has continually put it off. Now with the possibility of another Gulf-State GP in Quatar and all those Petro-Dollars already coming into the sport, they're not going to queer their pitch. Bernie certainly isn't.

[djb]

to reiterate what someone else said, I dont really give a hoot for the "green" aspect of a series, a nasty sounding engine is what makes it fun.

this is from someone who is probably "greener" than most here, I bicycle commute when I do not need a car, up to 25 klicks round trip sometimes. i have always biked a lot, and am not of the "use the car to go 2 blocks to the store" N. American mentality. Heck, I used to leave for a month on my bike and tour with tent and all with me, for up to 1600 k.

I also used to race motorcycles and have followed F1 for 30 years and have always loved the music of a racing engine, whatever the number of cylinders. Have been to Lemans twice and its the absolutely lovely mix of engine notes is what sticks in my memory, especially at night.

So what if a race series uses a screaming whatever engine, going the green route is so hippocritical (sp) when the N Americans drive their cars everywhere, leave all the lights on, have the tv always on and use air conditioning up the ying yang. For me its a bit of perspective here, and I too dont really care too much for the chassis issue. True I find the IRL cars kind of goofy looking with their pointy noses, but my long fascination with Indy, Champ cars etc was always with the fascinating mix of tracks throughout a season and the ding dong battles that the best drivers provided and I have always had a great amount of respect for a driver that could master an oval, a street course and a permanent road course. Not being American, it doesnt bother me if there are Brazilians, Brits, or whatever kicking keester. That said, as a North American, it was great to see Andretti or Rahal, and as a Canadian, Villeneuve, Moore or Tracey doing well.

I believe I must be a typical American open wheel type of fan, appreciateing it for the differences from F1 because of the oval angle, and not being bothered that the technology isnt the same as F1, but the lower costs (ideally) allowing for more competitive teams and allowing drivers to showcase their talent (unlike the "elitist" aspect of this in F1 vis-a-vis the haves and havesnots)

Do I care that a given chassis is 5 seconds slower that another option for road courses, no, not if they provide fun racing. Will the "show" aspect of Nascar continue to pull in the sponsor money, I hope not. What this not very smart fellow can see is that consistency is the main thing with the American Open Wheeled series, choose a car that looks good, sounds good and the basic criteria of all the varied tracks will always appeal to those interested in it.

just my take on it.

[JagtechOhio]

Reads like an excellent take from a smart fellow to me.

Thanks for sharing it.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

I say go counter to what the current fad all the followers are following, which is being GREEN and politically correct.

Go totally opposite and counter culture with loud, spitting engines and scary looking cars with some REAL drivers that don't spend their spare time getting their hair and nails done.

I'd reckon you'd have a major hit on your hands as you'd stand out in the marketplace from all these other sports and companies and fans all obsessed with wiping someone elses butt rather than having a good time.

One does not preclude the other. There's nothing wrong with either buthanol or small capacity turbo engines as far as noise or entertainment go. The F1 engines of the 1980's were only 1.5 litre, and they made one of the best engine noises in the history of ever. The new engine just have to rev a bit (15,000 rpm rather than the current 10,300).

Jag, I'll go back and read your previous post a bit later.

I'll finish off by saying, djb, that I too would be glad to see the green fad gone rather quickly (and that's coming from someone who doesn't even own a car). But being green or at least semi-green is something all series will eventually have to accept. And as I said, I personally think there's no problems combining green with a nice engine package.

Do I care that the chassis is five seconds slower on a road course? Currently, yes, because they're so damn docile to watch. GP2, Champ Car, Superleauge, the final A1GP car, they are all cars that you enjoy seeing pushed to the limit. That's lacking from today's IndyCar.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Magnusson

One does not preclude the other. There's nothing wrong with either buthanol or small capacity turbo engines as far as noise or entertainment go. The F1 engines of the 1980's were only 1.5 litre, and they made one of the best engine noises in the history of ever. The new engine just have to rev a bit (15,000 rpm rather than the current 10,300).

One or two of F1 teams still ran the Cosworth DFV 3.0L, notably Tyrrell and though it was a bit long in the tooth the sound of that engine blew away any 1.5L turbo. A marvelous bit of English engineering.

[climb]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

...
Go totally opposite and counter culture with loud, spitting engines and scary looking cars with some REAL drivers that don't spend their spare time getting their hair and nails done. ...

DO any exist yet?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by climb

DO any exist yet?

Yes but I'm not allowed to tell you where they are hidden.

[djb]

thanks jag for the comment. I just want to see the series work things out because it is unique with the varied tracks and will always be an attraction to me for that reason.

[QUOTE=Jimmy Magnusson; But being green or at least semi-green is something all series will eventually have to accept. And as I said, I personally think there's no problems combining green with a nice engine package.

This does make sense, and I'm sure you are right that combining "green" with "mean" will happen. And yes, a more nimble chassis would be fun to watch also.

[climb]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Yes but I'm not allowed to tell you where they are hidden.

[Juarez Jed]

Sounds like mountainstar has something in mind similar to Top Fuellers that go around corners .
I certainly agree about not going down the 1.4 litre green path. If you are not chasing government money for staging your races or your series why chase the eco dollar ?
People go to the races to get away from all these restrictions on their lives. Even country drives and picnics are considered anti-social assaults on the environment these days.
Theres nothing better than watching the Sprintcars on dirt , you go home with bits of clay in your hair and your nostrils are full of gunk. The sound and the aroma of ethanol and burnt rubber is as enjoyable as the racing itself.
I think the new Indycar must keep it's speedway heritage, not try and be a new-generation green Euro road racer.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Magnusson

What needs to happen on the chassis side is really for me a two pronged effort to support a move to ABC/ESPN.

The only problem with that is there isn't going to be a new chassis until 2012 or possibly 2013, if the Roger Penske update to the Dallara is adopted. ABC and ESPN aren't going to wait till then, so in the meantime the IRL/IICS is going to have to come up with another way to entice the broadcasters back and that's basically provide them with an audience.

The best way to do that is to go to the venues where racing is popular, televise it to those who can't get to the race and so build up your audience. The IRL needs to sit down and have a look at attendance figures for the varoius venues and take it from there. There's no point in holding a race at a venue that's got empty seats, it doesn't go down well. Also a little market research wouldn't go amiss; find out what venues are popular, what people want from racing, e.g. fans want a return to Surfers; gurenteed attendance and TV audience.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Right Jag, read your post and I have to say that sounds like a very good idea. Economical, gets variety and creates a future direction for the sport. If there's any one thing I worry about it's the power. I think rather 700-750 bhp is a good target. But perhaps that could be attained as the Hondas are phased out.

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

The only problem with that is there isn't going to be a new chassis until 2012 or possibly 2013, if the Roger Penske update to the Dallara is adopted. ABC and ESPN aren't going to wait till then, so in the meantime the IRL/IICS is going to have to come up with another way to entice the broadcasters back and that's basically provide them with an audience.

The best way to do that is to go to the venues where racing is popular, televise it to those who can't get to the race and so build up your audience. The IRL needs to sit down and have a look at attendance figures for the varoius venues and take it from there. There's no point in holding a race at a venue that's got empty seats, it doesn't go down well. Also a little market research wouldn't go amiss; find out what venues are popular, what people want from racing, e.g. fans want a return to Surfers; gurenteed attendance and TV audience.

All in all good points, but I don't think that there's much the IRL can do to entice ABC/ESPN. Sure, they need to do everything in their power to do as you say, increase fan interest wherever they can. But the what's ultimately going to get them on a good broadcasting program is time buy. There is no shame in having to pay for your coverage, and the investment is well worth it.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Magnusson

All in all good points, but I don't think that there's much the IRL can do to entice ABC/ESPN. Sure, they need to do everything in their power to do as you say, increase fan interest wherever they can. But the what's ultimately going to get them on a good broadcasting program is time buy. There is no shame in having to pay for your coverage, and the investment is well worth it.

Time buy is all very well but if you've got empty stands at the race track, as was seen last year, you're not going to encourage advertisers or prospective sponsors.

[JagtechOhio]

bjohnson, that's what I see as the #1 priority in terms of increasing market share. That requires concentration of promotion for individual events, and it has not been addressed at all in the past by the Series. It has always been left to the individual promoters. TV shots of empty grandstands hurts a lot more than giving the seats away for free.

IICS devotes a lot of effort to their on-line programs, which still don't work very well. Who does this feature attract? Not new fans, just the small group of hardcore devotees.

So here's an example of how to do it differently. I never used a computer until I got a free AOL CD rom in the mail. Now I use it a bit too much!

I'd have IMS productions make up 50,000 promotional DVD's with racing highlights and a ticket offer for the next race, and distribute them to registered drivers in the area of the event. There's even a way to use that format to drive website traffic, and monitor the effectiveness of the program. Fund it with the money being spent on labor and equipment to provide the present online services which don't work or attract new consumers.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Promotional DVDs could certainly be one way of generating interest. However, as far as existing attendance figures are concerned, the IRL could remove the venues from the season schedule that aren't producing good attendances, continue to promote the ones that are popular and produce good attendances, as well as looking into potential new venues. They also need to do some listening to the fans.

[JagtechOhio]

Bernard is already making noise about dropping the bottom events off the list, and co-promoting races. It's a double-edged approach to incentivize the race track promoters, the way I read it.

Baltimore is likely to be added for 2011, so somebody will be off the list. Homestead doesn't draw, and the contract expires after this year. I think contracts at Chicago and Kansas do as well, but I'm not sure of those.

[bjohnsonsmith]

That's interesting news and cutting the dead wood is a good way to go. I'd really like to see Surfers back on the calendar, from what I've read and heard there's big demand, especially with two of the top drivers from Oz and another from Middle Earth; the IRL really needs to take this sort of thing on board.

[JagtechOhio]

Don't hold your breath for that one. It's a $25M price tag for the Aussie promotors, who have already redesigned the track and plan to run only V8's.

[bjohnsonsmith]

No I won't but Surfers is the sort of venue the IRL shouldn't pass up in a hurry. It's an established event, with all the right ingredients, that can help the IRL out of its predicament.

[JagtechOhio]

Fron today's USA Today newspaper:

"There's nothing wrong with the series right now," Penske said.

There you have it, this is all much ado about nothing. My life is complete.

[Canada ALMS fan]

^He is speaking purely from his bottom line, not wanting to buy new cars and maintaining his dominance. Very disappointing to hear as he wields a lot of influence obviously. As a racer her truly cannot be happy with the cars. If nothing's wrong Roger why are 2 of your 3 sidepods blank?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

Fron today's USA Today newspaper:

"There's nothing wrong with the series right now," Penske said.

No there isn't, if you are basing it on the first two races of the season and your team's won those races. What a ridiculous comment to make.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Time buy is all very well but if you've got empty stands at the race track, as was seen last year, you're not going to encourage advertisers or prospective sponsors.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. I'm just saying only putting fans in the stands isn't going to be enough to get ABC/ESPN interested. But yes, please do remove dead weight and rearrange the schedule a bit. Personally I'd start the season at Long Beach and finish at another fan packed event.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Magnusson

Personally I'd start the season at Long Beach and finish at another fan packed event.

That makes a lot of sense. I think mixing the tracks up more would also help. At the moment it's 4 street/road courses in a row followed by 4 ovals and so on; alternating every other week or every two weeks would bring more variety.

[JagtechOhio]

This is all a big joke, isn't it. Canada, Penske's blank sidepods is exactly the problem. So are bjohnson's notice of empty granstands, and Jimmy's point about major network TV exposure.

Either these people are in total chaos, or all the decisions are being forged behind the scenes by the only people that count. Fan's don't.

Neither does anything the stakeholders have to say. It's all a joke.

April fools, perhaps?