Brabham BT36

[James Murray]

Alan/Phillipe

Alain Filhol was the owner of my car (36-11) between 88-93 according to the FIA papers. Have had no success either tracking him down.

Unless he had more than one BT36 I cant imagine it was 36-5 he raced in the early 90's in light of the above.

[James Murray]

Has anyone asked John Harper where he bought 36-5?

[phdm]

Had phone and fax numbers for him but I am not sure they are still valid.

[Andrew Fellowes]

Thruxton, 1971. While its mostly the Rondel Team I hope it's of general interest.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/snglinks/

Allen, you have the inside info on this site I think, how does one get hold of the owner of the photos?

[Ian V]

BT36X was owned for some time by Worcestershire based Chris Dowson. He successfully competed in the British hillclimb championship for a number of seasons, sponsored by local firm Unidraw. His best result was 10th overall in the British championship around 1982. This led to the purchase of a Pilbeam MP47 previously raced by Alistair Douglas-Osborne. The 5 litre Repco engine was taken out of the BT36X and transplanted into the Pilbeam, the chassis was shortened while the transpant was undertaken. Dowson then contiued to compete in this car for a number of seasons, sharing the car firstly with former champion Chris Cramer and later Charles Wardle, who became British champion in it. The BT36X was retained by Dowson with a view to going historic hillclimbing and was still in his possesion in 1988. Terry Devlin from Judd personally looked after the engine while Dowson owned it.

[Marc C]

The Brabham F2 of Nicolas (or Neckel) Koob was bought in the winter 1974-1975 and used in 1975 by a young Luxemburger driver called Johny Krier.

He competed in Belgian and Luxembourg hill climbs. Krier also used in 1975 a Luraco Lola T28S (Group 8/9) and a Chevron F5000.

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Another mystery BT36 to add to our collection. J Krier appears twice during July 1975 (Chamrousse 20 Jul and Vuillafans 27 Jul) with a "F2 Brabham" or "Brabham BT36".

Originally Posted by Marc C

The Brabham F2 of Nicolas (or Neckel) Koob was bought in the winter 1974-1975 and used in 1975 by a young Luxemburger driver called Johny Krier.

He competed in Belgian and Luxembourg hill climbs. Krier also used in 1975 a Luraco Lola T28S (Group 8/9) and a Chevron F5000.

Hello Marc

Were you once Marcor on TNF? TNF is a poorer place without you.

Thanks for this. Can you tell us your source? Also, do you know which Chevron F5000 Krier had? There aren't many missing that early on and it would be good to be able to fuill the gap.

Cheers

Allen

[allenbrown]

So:

BT36-5
1971 F.I.R.S.T. for Peter Westbury for F2
1972 (early season) Peter Westbury for F2
1972-74 Nick Koob (Luxembourg) for French, Belgian and Luxembourg hill climbs
1975 Johny Krier (Luxembourg) for French, Belgian and Luxembourg climbs
Nothing further ‘till
1990 Paris ?
1992 John Harper
1993 John Beasley
1999 Abba Kogan

[Andrew Fellowes]

OK to leave Salvi in? page edited as follows;

BT36-5
1971 F.I.R.S.T. for Peter Westbury for F2
1972 (early season) Peter Westbury for F2
1972-74 Nick (Neckel) Koob, Luxembourg for French, Belgian and Luxembourg hill climbs
1975 Johny Krier, Luxembourg for French, Belgian and Luxembourg hill climbs
1977 presumably the car of Michel Salvi in French hill climbs
Nothing further ‘till
1990 Paris ?
1992 John Harper
1993 John Beasley
1999 Abba Kogan

[allenbrown]

The Salvi bit was pure speculation

[Andrew Fellowes]

OK, I've left it in but added brackets.

I've got a couple of v. small BT30 amendments that I'll do in due course, (waiting for a green light from the source)

[Marc C]

Hello Allen,

Yes I was aka Marcor in TNF. I still sometimes post there under my real name (Marc Ceulemans).

My sources are 2 newspapers from Luxembourg (Luxemburger Wort and Tageblatt) + Retro (a Belgian mag about National and Local races).

In Retro n°38 (4 October 1975), there is a page about that 24 year (vey) rich luxemburger (Johny Krier). It is said that Krier bought at the end of 1974 a Lola T280 and completed his racing stable in record time with 2 Chevron B24 and the Brabham BT 36 of Nicolas Koob.

[allenbrown]

2 Chevron B24?!?

One of them would probably be the car Roelof Wunderink drove in 1973 but I have no idea about the second one.

[Andrew Fellowes]

BT36-5
source FIA papers.
1971 Peter Westbury. Felday Engineering. Dorking
1972 Nicholas Koob, Bettborn, Luxembourg
1975 Johnny Krier, Luxembourg
1977 Roger Hennenbert, Belgium
1978 M Wille, Longwy. France Tel. 82.257840
1986 Yves Bole, 31 Ave J Jaures, Venissieux 69200 France
1993 J.Beasley, Shrewsbury
1998 T.R.Green (almost illegible) Wellingbrough NN8 2QY

Allen, do those later names fit anything you have?

[allenbrown]

No, none of them, but it does fit pretty well with what we have for its early career.

Who's T.R.Green?

[allenbrown]

"A source" just told me that Tony Green is Abba Kogan's right-hand man.

[Andrew Fellowes]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

"A source" just told me that Tony Green is Abba Kogan's right-hand man.

Well, well, how odd. I had no idea!

[ianr]

Car sold last night 31st.Oct at auction at Battersea. I Looked at it with a view to bidding, however FIA papers from 1993 gave the Arch Motors number as AM 71 49, but on inspecting the car there was no number stamped on the chassis, and there was no explaination of how a car that had an AM number in 1993 did not have one now! I assume a replacement chassis has been made in the last few years, but the vendor claimed to know nothing about it.
So how can a car which has had a replacement chassis, new bodywork, new engine, and a whole host of other non original parts, oil tank, rad, wheels, instruments, etc. claim to be BT36-5? Although the chassis plate looked OK. but fixed in the wrong place!

[allenbrown]

Sometimes the AM numbers become obscured by the coatings on the frame.

Even if it does have a replacement frame, as long as the old frame isn't sold separately, it's still BT36-5. Bodywork and engine are of no consequence when considering the originality of a post-1960s car. They'd make the world of difference to a pre-1950s car but that's another story...

[ianr]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Sometimes the AM numbers become obscured by the coatings on the frame.

Even if it does have a replacement frame, as long as the old frame isn't sold separately, it's still BT36-5. Bodywork and engine are of no consequence when considering the originality of a post-1960s car. They'd make the world of difference to a pre-1950s car but that's another story...

I've looked at enough frames in my time and stamped numbers are never completely obscured, there was no number! I was not the only one to ask !My question is one of what constitutes a car and not one of originality.

[phdm]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

No, none of them, but it does fit pretty well with what we have for its early career.

Who's T.R.Green?

The FIA papers were misplaced and re-issued at some point in time.
On the other set of papers (I had a look at both) it is Abba Kogan's name that is indicated

[phdm]

Originally Posted by ianr

I've looked at enough frames in my time and stamped numbers are never completely obscured, there was no number! I was not the only one to ask !My question is one of what constitutes a car and not one of originality.

You are right. No AM number.

I understand that after buying the car Abba Kogan sent the car to Barry Leitch in NZ to have it restored. Maybe he has something to say about it.

[ianr]

Originally Posted by phdm

You are right. No AM number.

I understand that after buying the car Abba Kogan sent the car to Barry Leitch in NZ to have it restored. Maybe he has something to say about it.

So should not the original frame have been retained and offered with the sale?

or at least an explaination?

I have owned and restored Brabhams for 35 years and I am more and more sceptical and disillusioned with the whole FIA papers and HTP forms issue.

I think and try to make originality important, but have come to the view,
" Could I sit in a car and feel good about it?" and often the answer is no!

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by ianr

So should not the original frame have been retained and offered with the sale?

or at least an explaination?

I completely agree.

[phdm]

There were no frame or other parts (except 4 split rims with Revolution centres and slicks) offered with the car