Speaking of Crash Helmets ...

[numbersix]

Seeing as HM government are soon to bung money in our direction (provided of course that we can arrange to have a 15% ethnic minority, 10% gay rights and 0.5% psychotics in line with the distribution of society at large as the average post-split at Donnington) then how long will it be before the health and safety directorate demand we all wear helmets on post?

[archaic gold]

Originally Posted by numbersix

Seeing as HM government are soon to bung money in our direction (provided of course that we can arrange to have a 15% ethnic minority, 10% gay rights and 0.5% psychotics in line with the distribution of society at large as the average post-split at Donnington) then how long will it be before the health and safety directorate demand we all wear helmets on post?

Crash Helmets are available at BRSCC Meetings at Brands Hatch if one is working adjacent to the Manitos with their heavy lifting bar not mandatory, but advisable. Also issued to the Staff Marshals for the same situation.

[The STIG]

Originally Posted by archaic gold

Crash Helmets are available at BRSCC Meetings at Brands Hatch if one is working adjacent to the Manitos with their heavy lifting bar not mandatory, but advisable. Also issued to the Staff Marshals for the same situation.

What is a Manitos?

[jonbryant]

4-wheel drive forklift thing that is usually found on building sites. They basically drive through the gravel, pick the errant car up and then drive out again!

Magic! And the crash hats are orange...

[Rich D]

If you are interested in this topic, there is a 6 page discussion on the SCCA Workers forum on this issue in the US. Interesting read.

Goto the SCCA homepage, click on the discussion button then look for the workers forum, page 2.

i would post a link, but I think that is against the 10/10th rules. Email it for me if interested...

[scorch]

Originally Posted by jonbryant

They basically drive through the gravel

A bit optimistic i think, they aint that good.

Seriously though, there is no need for a helmet in this situation. i would never wear a helmet on the circuit for marshalling, espically for snatching, it is something else to get in the way when you are trying to crawl under a car to find it's towing eye.

[jonbryant]

Originally Posted by scorch

there is no need for a helmet in this situation.

I'm not so sure about that to be honest Scorch. Some Manitou drivers are excellent. Some however leave something to be desired and when standing trying to hook up car beneath the forks you do have to keep an eye out for sudden movements!

But you are quite right about them not always getting through the traps!

[Grandslammer]

Found this thread from a few months ago
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...rshals+helmets

[Dutch chap]

Originally Posted by scorch

Seriously though, there is no need for a helmet in this situation.

Obviously you were not around post 5 during the FFF. A helmet would have been handy for at least one marshal - twice actually.

[MagnetON]

There's a difference between a "hard hat" which is generally available and a helmet. Personally I'd have no problems wearing either while attending an incident. The problem is there's a whole "looking like a t.t" while wearing one.

I'll bring my helmet next year and wear it proudly when I'm working at Brands

[The STIG]

Hmm. I've seen the recovery boys at pembrey wearing builder's hard hats when using their crane and cage method of snatching... but not everyone involved in the snatch had them!

[chezza]

Ah so this is where all this talk has gone.

I wouldn't wear a hard hat when snatching. It would get in the way, and I am liable to forget to take it with me when doing "live" snatches.

The drivers whether they be of manitous (sp?) or JCB's shouldn't be making sudden/gerky movements when you are under the forks/arm...in fact you shouldn't be under them at all. When snatching with a JCB the cars are very very rarely lifted over head height...how are you supposed to keep control of the car if its up there?!

One of the things about snatching is that you have to trust the guy driving. He usually does it all the time, and knows the equipment and how it reacts. I've not been hooking long but have total faith in our JCB driver. Blimey I can't believe I said that about him

[Andrew Palmer]

Originally Posted by chezza

One of the things about snatching is that you have to trust the guy driving.

Blimey I can't believe I said that about him

I can't believe you said that either

Any way look at what the helmet is going to protect you from?

1) Builder's hard hat: prevents injury from bricks and other small items.
2) Fire service helmet: prevents injury from heat and falling sections of building.
3) Police Riot helmets: prevents injury from bricks and other small items.
4) Crash helmet (car or bike): keeps head intact after contact with solid object (Road surface, walls, other vehicle's, etc)

Now look at a car being snatched, it's a large and heavy item! Any currently available head protection will not prevent injury.

Using Health and Safety terms assess the risk.

As for wearing head protection at other times while marshalling again Risk Assessments.


One point to think on, why do builders on top of buildings wear hard hats?

If they're at the top who's going to drop something on them from above?

[archaic gold]

The Manitos at Brands are fitted with a log horizontal RSJ, painted bright yellow. This is to faciliate the fitting of a spreader for recovering saloon cars - yse THEY go off into the gravel as well, and after hitting tyre walls, armc, etc; are often not towable, and therefore have to be lifted. Back to hard hats, if you are under the yellow bar to reach the lifting hook and fit a strop you may give your head a nasty 'clonk' as the bar is about four foot long.
Second point about lifting over head high - tried getting a car onto a normal flat bed truck?? \the flat bed is normally about 4 foot high, your single seater will never lift straight; engine end down so a lift is nrmally required upto seven feet so that it can be guided down onto the flat bed. QED.

[numbersix]

Nothing's going to save your nut if a forklift drops the sky on you, that's a fact. Builders on the top deck wear crash hats in case they walk into lintels or scaffolding, or something flies through the air at 'em like a hammer head or a nail from a misaimed nail gun.

The only time I can see a hat being useful is to protect us from flying debris during a major shunt. It doesn't seem to make the Fire Brigade lads any less effective when dealing with more RTA's in a day then we sometimes see in a season.

Like the HANS device in Nascar (?) was considered to be for mardy-*rsed pufters until its most vocal critic got killed, I think these things becoming compulsory is only a matter of time now that HMGov is involved. Time will tell. If/when I have to have one I'll go for the Fireman's, not a builder's hat. I have my steet-cred to consider.

[chezza]

Originally Posted by archaic gold

Second point about lifting over head high - tried getting a car onto a normal flat bed truck?? \the flat bed is normally about 4 foot high, your single seater will never lift straight; engine end down so a lift is nrmally required upto seven feet so that it can be guided down onto the flat bed. QED.

I didn't think normal marshals were allowed near the cars being put on recovery trucks at MSV circuits?!

On the silverstone JCB we have no need for forks or spreaders.

Ok occassionally the car is lifted with the jcb straight onto the back of the flat bed, and although it is over head height, I would be standing clear, and definately not underneath the car. All the lifts are very controlled and never rushed to minimalise the swing of the car.

[archaic gold]

Originally Posted by chezza

I didn't think normal marshals were allowed near the cars being put on recovery trucks at MSV circuits?!

On the silverstone JCB we have no need for forks or spreaders.

Ok occassionally the car is lifted with the jcb straight onto the back of the flat bed, and although it is over head height, I would be standing clear, and definately not underneath the car. All the lifts are very controlled and never rushed to minimalise the swing of the car.

Agreed, not standing underneath the car, but with the most controlled lift, a car may still swing; also, what if it is facing the wrong way?? Many single-seaters have to be swung through 180 degrees before being lowered onto a flat bed.
Many snatches do have to be 'hurried' as in the majority of snatches at the bottom of Paddock (4A), the Manito/JCB has to cross the track to a place of safety, in between circuits behind a Safety Car by the Competitors. These cars come round very quickly on such a short length as on the Indy. My experience of Silverstone, is that the majority of snatches are taken straight behind the nearest gap in the tyre wall.

[scorch]

Occasional the car will be put on the flatbed, but most of the time there is space for the JCB to place the stricken car on the ground and let the breakdown crews do their stuff. Cars are very rarely lifted above a few feet, ok if a car is that un balanced then one end of it may be higher.

Of course this is theory because i never get chance to drive the thing eh nick.

Of course if we are going to use the fact that these type of vechicles are usually found on a building site what about high vis jackets as well as hard hats.

[archaic gold]

Of course if we are going to use the fact that these type of vechicles are usually found on a building site what about high vis jackets as well as hard hats.[/QUOTE]

We do, ORANGE overalls and waterproof jackets with scotch tape type banding!!

[chezza]

Originally Posted by archaic gold

We do, ORANGE overalls and waterproof jackets with scotch tape type banding!!

No we don't and no we don't.

Some of us wear black, please do not let this decend into a black v orange thing. I am mearly stating a fact.

I have a lovely bright orange jacket...however it doesn't have the reflective banding on it.