Audi LMP1 Discussion

[TF110]

Imagine if they had the same incidents in the race with this new car. It wouldn't look good on their part. So go with the proven R18, then test more with the Ultra for Spa. That's my guess.

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by TF110

Imagine if they had the same incidents in the race with this new car. It wouldn't look good on their part. So go with the proven R18, then test more with the Ultra for Spa. That's my guess.

Plus, they didn't have to show anyone what the new car is capable of yet, and didn't have to get three new cars plus spares ready in time for Sebring.

[gwyllion]

Indeed, the production of the necessary spare parts has not yet started because the car is still in development.

By running the 2011 R18s they could use their existing stock of 2011 parts. Apparently because of the accidents on Thursday (#1 and #3 Audi driving into each other) they were short of spare parts; e.g., the #3 car did not have a replacement nose for the race.

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by TF110

The lack of noise is astonishing. And people say hybrids are quiet! Well how quiet will the diesel hybrid be? Maybe GT guys can't hear them coming so they end up in incidents with them. I've always thought this could be a problem. I'm sure those bright lights will be useful though. I just wish they made more of a sound. They're serious looking machines, without the serious sound. Hope some pictures surface soon of the new cars.

Won't be any different to last year. They can't really get much quieter on approach. It's actually really cool I think to stand there and watch them in a race. I was stood next to some fairly inexperienced sportscar fans at LM and the car which most excited them was the R18. The lack of noise seems to amplify the speed.

It's especially cool at Tetre Rouge when all you can hear is the car hitting the curbs and a bit of a whoosh as it heads off.

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

I paused the video and I believe that these are not hybrid R18s.

The first car is the #3 R18 TDI (2011), which raced in the 12 hours of Sebring and which is used as benchmark for the 2012 cars.
The second car is the #3 R18 Ultra (2012), which was spotted on Sunday in the paddock by quattroworld.com. This is the car that Bernhard destroyed.

Sounds correct. According to DSC, the Hybrid was in black livery with number #2.

[gwyllion]

Yes, in the previous tests the black #2 was always the R18 e-tron quattro and the black #3 the R18 ultra. See gallery of Paul Ricard November test and of Sebring December test.

There were reports that Audi ran with two R18 e-tron quattros, one with 2012 aero (fender holes) and one with the 2011 aero. Does DSC have pictures of both cars?

[prototype]

There is only photos of one etron (in 2012 spec). They were definitely running a 2011 R18 as apart of the test.

[chernaudi]

There are some photos at DSC, but for subscribers only.

We'll probably have to wait for the Fourtitude and Quattroworld reports before most of us will have photos of the 2012 R18.

The 2012 e-tron also seemed to have a modified engine intake, rear brake intakes, rear wing endplates and the fender holes, but right now only DSC subscribers have access to the pics, and Mike posted this list of updates to the Mulsanne's Corner Facebook page. Hopefully he'll have some photos sooner rather than later. I'd check now to see if the site has photos, but it seems that mulsannescorner.com is down for maintenance or something, as I get a "this site is taking too long to respond" admonishment from Century Link.

[gwyllion]

http://www.quattroworld.com/2012-12-...ro-at-sebring/ has a report on Monday's test and Bernhard accident.

As mentioned earlier, Audi was testing with four cars:

• #1 – R18 e-tron quattro – Performing endurance runs
• #2 – R18 e-tron quattro – Testing the latest aero
• #3 (carbon) – R18 TDI ultra – New and old aero
• #3 with livery – R18 TDI from the 12 hours of Sebring race – this is their test Reference

The first three cars are pure test cars and will not be used in races this year.

The e-tron quattro was noticeably faster than the ultra. Every lap it would gain around 10 car lengths.

There have been several noticeable revisions to the cars:

• Engine intake
• Rear brake intake
• Rear wing endplate
• Front and rear fender holes with strake on the edge of the front fender holes
• Lowered bodywork around the fenders

Regarding the crash. The author of the report suggests that the fender holes prevented the car getting airborne and hence that they likely saved Timo from an even more serious accident. Despite the speed of the crash, the car seemed to be fairly intact, specifically the main cockpit.
Timo got out of the car on his own power, but quickly collapsed on the pavement. It toke a quite some time before the safety workers got to him, because there were less safety workers than during the race week.

[TF110]

The new aero looks good. You can see the fender holes looking like how the other teams have implemented them, but without the louvers, but seems they're trying to hide them. I love the carbon fiber look, wish they'd race with it and use reflective vinyls for their sponsors.

[gwyllion]

Looking at the pictures the aero updates are extensive.

The engine intake seems to be inspired by the Toyota TS030 solution.
The rear brake intakes are no longer on the side pods, but integrated as hole in the rear fender.
The head light unit also changed a bit. The daytime LEDs are no longer in the shape of a "one" in the middle.


The rear wing endplates are no longer square.
There is an additional vent in the engine cover.


The front fender is lowered around the hole, like on the Oak Pescarolo/Morgan.

It is clear that the car is still in development and that the new parts are still very new. One of the 2012 noses is not fitted with head lights:

[TF110]

I noticed the front fender hole being like the Oak. The holes in the rear fenders look like eyes, brake cooling? And I saw the hole behind the air intake. The intake is raised like the Toyota, but is much wider and not as tall compared to the Toyota and the old R18.

EDIT- i forgot to point out the raised edges of the holes in the front fenders, they travel further than the holes though and appear to go from the headlight all the way to the top end of the fenders.

[gwyllion]

If you compare these two pictures, you can see that the shape of the windscreen has hardly changed on the 2012 tub.


Note that rear fin is slightly higher, because of the 2012 rules.

[TF110]

I saw that, I noticed the swan neck wing mount was bigger or taller, making the wing appear lower, but in reality its the fact that the fin doesn't slope down on an angle. The updated #3 seems to be lacking the holes in the inner rear fenders. Is that an e-tron feature I wonder.

[gwyllion]

Mike Fuller already has short comments on his twitter account:

Originally Posted by @mulsannescorner

Audi Ultra's rear brake ducts are located in inboard leading edge surface of rear fenders, large round hole.

Audi Ultra's rear wing EP's leading edge has a new trim.

Audi Ultra's engine inlet area appears larger, duct lifted off surface: reduce boundary layer ingestion. Much simpler than previous.

Audi Ultra: hard to ascertain BHH solution without high res images. Strakes flank front hole. Rear hole just outboard RW EP.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by TF110

I saw that, I noticed the swan neck wing mount was bigger or taller, making the wing appear lower, but in reality its the fact that the fin doesn't slope down on an angle. The updated #3 seems to be lacking the holes in the inner rear fenders. Is that an e-tron feature I wonder.

No the black #3 is the ultra chassis, but with 2011 aero. For instance the engine intake is still the old version and the fender holes are missing.

[TF110]

That answered my question then. It's not just an e-tron feature. I guess I was fooled because of the angle of that picture you posted. But i should have known, there is no difference besides the mechanical aspect of the cars between the Ultra and e-tron as said on quattroworld.

[cdsvg]

Serrated gurney?

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by TF110

EDIT- i forgot to point out the raised edges of the holes in the front fenders, they travel further than the holes though and appear to go from the headlight all the way to the top end of the fenders.

I have the impression that because of the raised edge the front fender are even higher than last year. So perhaps the visibility for the short driver might be even worse this year?

BTW the rear holes of the Oreca 03 also have a raised edge.

[gwyllion]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/98219 mentions the Bernhard crash and reports that 11 of the 12 Audi drivers are at the ongoing Sebring test. That makes sense because Rockenfeller is at a DTM test in Valencia.

[gwyllion]

Another article about the Sebring test: http://www.roadandtrack.com/racing/m...ybrid-race-car.

Some interesting quotes from the article:

While Toyota’s Le Mans hybrid uses supercapacitors to capture energy, Audi has opted for a flywheel. Ullrich says they feel the flywheel “...is overall the better concept system and we think there is quite some way to improve the development.”

This is not the same flywheel used in Porsche’s GT3 R Hybrid. It is made of carbon fiber, has a diameter of 30 centimeters, a height of 20 centimeters, spins at up to 45,000 rpm in a vacuum and fits tightly in its enclosure. The precision fit is for safety in an accident. Ullrich explains, “If the flywheel runs out of its normal position, it touches the housing. Then the temperature goes up and because of that, the resin in the carbon fiber burns away and so the flywheel destroys itself automatically without pieces that have energy. It falls into fibers and they just create some dust and this stays inside the housing.”

Tom Kristensen, Audi driver and 8-time winner of Le Mans, agrees and adds, “You can hear the flywheel, particularly when the engine is off but it’s like a whoo whoo sound.”
He gives us the driver’s perspective: “We recover the energy when braking into the corner. That gives us stability into corners and you can rotate the car a little bit more because there's resistance in the front axle. That's a nice feedback to the driver. Then when you are coming out of a corner after 120 kilometers per hour (75 mph) the regulations allow you to use the recovered energy, and that's when you get the boost. Sometimes you get the boost quite aggressively and you can feel that from the front axle. It's not as much as the engine, of course, as that’s the most powerful drivetrain on the car. We've driven it a little bit in damp conditions and there it feels like it can help you certain times because it gives you feedback from both axles.”

BTW If I count correctly, Audi shipped seven R18s to Sebring: three R18 TDIs for the race, one R18 ultra and two R18 e-tron quattros (black) for testing, and one R18 e-tron quattro (while livery) as demo/mockup car!

[chernaudi]

It seems that the e-tron is definitely faster than the Ultra--a pick up of several car lengths down the front and rear straights alone equals several tenths of a second.

If Toyota or anyone else is out-run by the Ultra, they'll be in big trouble against the e-tron provided that it's reliable. This does remain to be seen, however, and we'll have to wait until Spa, but I think that in terms of pace, diesel power+hybrid system=tough to beat.

And the 2012 car obviously seems to be in LM-spec--with those endplates, they can't mount the wing any higher, so that seems that for the sprint races that Audi will either revert to the old-style endplates or develop new ones.

It also seems that Audi have done work to the front of the car--note the raised section of the nose above the brake duct intakes. I also hope that with those strakes on the front fenders that Audi had those in mind when they re-did the cockpit to provide improved visibility.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

And the 2012 car obviously seems to be in LM-spec--with those endplates, they can't mount the wing any higher, so that seems that for the sprint races that Audi will either revert to the old-style endplates or develop new ones.

Maybe they don't need to mount the rear wing higher for downforce. They could just change the angle.

[chernaudi]

Unless Audi found something, they'll have to raise the wing, as the overall regime as far as balancing downforce with drag is the same as last year. Both Audi and Peugeot cranked up the wing's height for the races post LM, and Peugeot even did it for Spa.

But this probably will depend on what turn of speed Toyota will have, and what they have in the tubes--I don't think we've seen Audi be 100% finished with tinkering with the R18.

[gwyllion]

A half hour interview with Allan McNish on racing skills: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-U-2WNfv5w In the beginning and the end he talks a bit about the new R18.

McNish explains that the front end of 2012 R18 is very nice. It is more responsive, better feedback and better consistency. The reason for this is mainly mechanically.