[Team] Team Lotus to confirm name and Renault bits but Grp Lotus start Norfolk Civil War?

[duke_toaster]

I'd agree with that analysis, you can't make windows in to men's souls but if you chop Tony Fernandes in half you will get far more British Racing Green and primrose yellow than you would get colours out of the vast majority of top level sports team owners (and Lotus clearly are top level, if you consider them a direct continuation, Lotus have won more World Championships than Manchester United have won world and European championships combined).

[jab]

Originally Posted by bella

both of these points i agree with, but i do believe that lotus racing have earnt the right. they're based in the uk, they have uk people working for them, it just so happens the money comes from malaysia.

Which would be exactly the same if Group Lotus took over Renault, because they'd still be based at Enstone

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

I'd agree with that analysis, you can't make windows in to men's souls but if you chop Tony Fernandes in half you will get far more British Racing Green and primrose yellow than you would get colours out of the vast majority of top level sports team owners (and Lotus clearly are top level, if you consider them a direct continuation, Lotus have won more World Championships than Manchester United have won world and European championships combined).

I doubt it. He's a businessman. He's got a vested interest in making himself look like a fan. He used the Lotus name to get sponsorship, nothing else. He has about as many Lotus connections as I do, to be frank

[jab]

Apologies for the double post but...

According to the reliable Jean-Louis Moncet, next year's Lotus (i.e. currently Renault) will be black and gold a la JPS, not British Racing Green

[ASCII Man]

So hows this different from Fernandes just "buying the name", and slapping a retro color scheme on it?

[jab]

Originally Posted by ASCII Man

So hows this different from Fernandes just "buying the name", and slapping a retro color scheme on it?

Because it's Lotus Cars, who are actually Lotus. And it is Lotus Cars that gave Lotus Racing its name for this year - their backing. Next year, the only connections Lotus Racing/Team Lotus would have to Chapman would be what they've bought - the rights to the Team Lotus name, and possibly Ketteringham Hall if that goes through

I wanted to see Lotus on the grid this year and I was happy to ignore the whole "Fauxtus" thing. I have nothing against Fernandes per se. I'd not say anything if Group Lotus didn't want in. However, I think it is only right that if Group Lotus wish to enter, he should stand aside, because Group Lotus are Lotus, while he's ultimately just a Malaysian businessman trading off the Lotus name to help his own team stand out in what is a tough paddock

Don't get me wrong, I feel sorry for him, because things have dramatically changed at the helm of Group Lotus lately. It's Bahar that's to "blame" for this, if anyone - it's because he wants his own Lotus project. But you have to admit, while it would've been the morally right thing to do for Group Lotus to increase their backing of Lotus Racing, there's no denying that investing in Renault would/will be better for the Lotus brand, because they're a better team - an established, past championship-winning team - and could be fighting for wins next year, while Lotus Racing will no doubt still be in the lower end of the midfield even if they make progress

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by jab

It's Bahar that's to "blame" for this, if anyone - it's because he wants his own Lotus project.

What exactly is Bahar's involvement and what is this Lotus project he wants to run?

[jab]

Dany Bahar is the CEO of Group Lotus

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by jab

Dany Bahar is the CEO of Group Lotus

And what is this Lotus project of his?

[jab]

To enter Group Lotus into F1 - that is, a Lotus team in F1 that isn't Fernandes'

It's an ego trip, essentially

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by jab

Apologies for the double post but...

According to the reliable Jean-Louis Moncet, next year's Lotus (i.e. currently Renault) will be black and gold a la JPS, not British Racing Green

That's nice. Any commercial sponsorship coming on board to match that livery?

Where does Mr Kubica's contract stand with all these changes at Lotus-Renault?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by jab

To enter Group Lotus into F1 - that is, a Lotus team in F1 that isn't Fernandes'

It's an ego trip, essentially

Thanks for the info. He's one of those, is he? He's got to run the show and no one else. So how is the circle to be squared if there is the Lotus-Renault team and the Group Lotus team. It looks like the very situation Bahar has been trying to avoid has been created.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by jab

My only worry is that, long term, I don't like the direction Group Lotus is going in under Bahar and I fear they'll be bankrupt in a few years. But that's a separate issue. For now, we're going to have a properly competitive Lotus outfit for the first time in 20 years with a much greater possibility of that 80th win than was ever going to come with Fernandes outfit - they will make progress but I can't ever see them becoming a regular force at the front, while Renault are a former championship-winning team with a top driver leading them and are more likely to stay at the front and compete for podiums and wins

And I hope Fernandes doesn't call the team 1Malaysia or Team Air Asia - they would both be ghastly

It's my understanding that the engineering arm is the money maker, the car side of it never earning big bucks. Now with all the F1 drama and trying to build and develop 5 new cars in a few short years for such a small company, I really think they are spreading themselves too thin. Maybe I am wrong but it just seems like a mess to me.

The current Fernandes team, well it would not surprise me to see it out of business in a few years or just plain folded. It seemed like he was banking on the Lotus name quite a lot and with that taken away, well I dunno.

[GTRMagic]

The more logical thing, if they could get the players in a room, is for Petronas (also a Malaysian company) to get on board with the Fernandes Team Lotus and become Team Petronas-Renault

Petronas is SERIOUSLY well funded as a business.. they are of a similar ethnicity, and have already made the leap of faith to be in F1...

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

It's my understanding that the engineering arm is the money maker, the car side of it never earning big bucks. Now with all the F1 drama and trying to build and develop 5 new cars in a few short years for such a small company, I really think they are spreading themselves too thin. Maybe I am wrong but it just seems like a mess to me.

The current Fernandes team, well it would not surprise me to see it out of business in a few years or just plain folded. It seemed like he was banking on the Lotus name quite a lot and with that taken away, well I dunno.

Where does this all sit with Group Lotus and their involvement with KV Racing Technologies?

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Where does this all sit with Group Lotus and their involvement with KV Racing Technologies?

As I said before no cash or if any it was tiny amounts changed hands and it was all about Cosworth trying to do business with Lotus. Lotus was sending 3 engineers to races for "work experience". KV got to put the name on the car which Lotus sounds a lot better than Kalkoven Vasser which means bugger all to just about anyone else out there.

If something has changed for next year all I can say is that at the moment Lotus only sold 700 cars in the USA last year. A quick check of the math shows that unless there is some funny money from somewhere, that isn't buying full car sponsorships on an indycar unless at some massive cut down rate. Lotus I think has like 20 dealers in the USA and most have other car brands under the same roof to make a living.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

As I said before no cash or if any it was tiny amounts changed hands and it was all about Cosworth trying to do business with Lotus. Lotus was sending 3 engineers to races for "work experience". KV got to put the name on the car which Lotus sounds a lot better than Kalkoven Vasser which means bugger all to just about anyone else out there.

If something has changed for next year all I can say is that at the moment Lotus only sold 700 cars in the USA last year. A quick check of the math shows that unless there is some funny money from somewhere, that isn't buying full car sponsorships on an indycar unless at some massive cut down rate. Lotus I think has like 20 dealers in the USA and most have other car brands under the same roof to make a living.

I don't think either KV or Group Lotus are doing this for nothing; Sato certainly totaled enough chassis ths year. It's a marketing tool, either to show InydCar isn't in the doldrums or that it can attract global interest.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I don't think either KV or Group Lotus are doing this for nothing; Sato certainly totaled enough chassis ths year. It's a marketing tool, either to show InydCar isn't in the doldrums or that it can attract global interest.

Well that's all I know so it is what it is and whoever footed the Sato bill, dunno.

[P38 in workshop]

If Fernandes relinquishes the Lotus name,his team becomes the latter day Super Aguri next to the "works" team.We saw what happened there.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by P38 in workshop

If Fernandes relinquishes the Lotus name,his team becomes the latter day Super Aguri next to the "works" team.We saw what happened there.

But they'll have Renault backing and that engine is pretty good.

[P38 in workshop]

My understanding is that the customer pays for the engines.Without the Lotus name,the current Norfolk based team are greatly diminished as it is a known brand.Similarly,if the car makers take on the outfit currently called Renault and rename it,they may find that their own turnover would not permit diverting tens of millions to support their name.This could turn out to be a lose/lose situation for all concerned.

[jab]

Well, Renault want to get out of F1 - they want to sell their stake in the team. They've only lasted an extra year because they didn't want it to look like they were pulling out because of Singapore 2008. Their stake isn't that big - from what I've read, it seems possible that they are selling this small stake to Lotus. So Lotus themselves wouldn't be putting an enormous amount in - it'll still largely be funded by Genii and the sponsorship they can pick up

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by P38 in workshop

My understanding is that the customer pays for the engines.Without the Lotus name,the current Norfolk based team are greatly diminished as it is a known brand.Similarly,if the car makers take on the outfit currently called Renault and rename it,they may find that their own turnover would not permit diverting tens of millions to support their name.This could turn out to be a lose/lose situation for all concerned.

I thought the Fernandes team was going to be called Lotus-Renault, or have I got that wrong?

[GTRMagic]

Where are the commercial brands on the Lotus Racing cars in 2010?

All the logos are from enterprises inside one of Mr Fernandes' companies or alliances arent they? Perhaps this isnt the long term intention, but certainly is for 2010...



So if the current 'Lotus Racing' loses its name, what sponsorship will be at risk?

[GTRMagic]

David Hunt with USF1's own Peter Windsor...

[duke_toaster]

We can mock and scoff Peter Windsor to our heart's content (yes, we know his latest attempt at setting up a team didn't work, but his track record prior to that was admirable), it's good to hear the Team Lotus side of the story now.