[WEC] 2014 FIA World Endurance Championship

[Ginaro Zukovsky]

It's a bit like their opinions and their bashing of BTCC, vs British GT (except Tim who has actually follows BTCC).

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by J Jay

"A number of the team" (3 at most) do love F1, but crucially Hindhaugh, the main commentator on RLM/WEC stream, isn't one of them. So the impression this figurative new fan is going to take is one of some bitterness towards F1 on the part of the sportscar establishment.

The difference between "feeder series" and Baguette/Alberquerque/etc. is that none of these jokes are intended to mock their targets. Honestly, I don't think Hindhaugh and Goodwin really want to put F1 down at every opportunity, but that's what it sounds like to the newcomer.

And unfortunately, some people are starting to use the running joke as a standard response to the mere mention of ex-F1 drivers in sportscars. I suppose this is where my real criticism lies

Fair comment, though I would also take issue with Hindhaugh not being one of those who loves F1. A jokey jibe here and there doesn't mean he doesn't love it any less - the bloke seems to love absolutely every form of motor sport.

Anyway, there is a feedback page on Radio Le Mans' website. Complaints and criticisms are likely to go far further there than they are on this thread....

[GT6]

Oh boy some people do take life a little too serious, running jokes, banter and taking the micky between different types of motorsport is part of the fun, we all love motor racing and have our favourites but if some people start to take offence then it is very worrying the last thing we need is for people to take things to seriously, Some sports fans get so upset and so blinkered that they end up coming to blows in relation to these sort of things, having an overall sport that allows gentle ribbing is healthy having people take offense about something when no offense is intended does not fill me with hope, Come on you lot stop taking life so serious this is motor sport please do not turn it into footbal where an attitude exists of follow one team and hate everyone else, no one should takes these comments to serious and those that do should perhaps get a sense of humour or find a new sport to follow IMHO. Motor sport should have some element of humour if people takes it on them selves to look for insults and worse in people's comments then that is very sad

[Graham Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Ahaha how funny! I mean seriously, who coud ever get tired of hearing that joke after 40,000 repeats and counting! I'm looking forward of mr Goodwin saying it over and over, and over and over, and over and over again come Le Mans! It's so true too, like totally! There is literally no way it would annoy anyone!

Happy to acknowledge that my (well intentioned) sarcasm can get wearing for some but I think it's important to record that there's a serious point behind it - The reality is that ALL of the rest of motorsport has been treated by the media, and by F1 itself, as a very poor relation for way too long.

We started DSC (and its predecessors) because of precisely that - We felt that almost nobody was doing Sportscar racing's quality and variety any real justice in terms of the coverage it received.

Our job, (as we all saw it and still see it), was to do our very best to provide high quality coverage and help build a audience - The numbers suggest that this has been successful to a fairly significant degree.

As for any comments I pass on RLM - They are my opinions, I don't work for RLM but rather I am invited to contribute. There's a choice of whether or not you attempt to entertain and/or inform - If any of you feel that the mix is incorrect please feel free to contact me directly - I'd be genuinely happy to discuss.

[GT6]

I think most people on this forum are very proud of RLM and are happy that we can listen agree and disagree with it without calling for change

[Aysedasi]

Hell, let's find something pointless and inane to moan about, shall we..... That is the great delight of Internet forums, isn't it? I suppose we can either look for things to moan about or get on and get a life and enjoy it I guess.

I'm perfectly content with the feeder series jibe - I feel that F1 often needs the **** to be taken out of it's exalted status these days.

[GT6]

Well said Andrew

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Fair comment, though I would also take issue with Hindhaugh not being one of those who loves F1. A jokey jibe here and there doesn't mean he doesn't love it any less - the bloke seems to love absolutely every form of motor sport.

Thanks for taking the time to respond seriously (I can't believe I've had to type that).

I will admit that I'm not an authority on MWM as I've only been listening for a year and a bit (that "newcomer" I was referring to is me! Hello!), but it sounds to me that Hindahugh likes F1 in the same way he likes Stephane Ratel. Complete with constant denials about how he doesn't "have a downer" on either of them.

[Rodger Davies]

Originally Posted by J Jay

For anyone familiar with Manchester City FC before their takeover, they used to sell commemorative mugs/shirts whenever they beat Manchester United, whilst they were struggling at the bottom of the league. I see this feeder series joke in the same way - congratulating ourselves for little victories against a "rival" that likely couldn't give a hoot.

Really good analogy, but not sure I completely agree with your conclusion; I used to live in the area and it used to be what defined that club as the purists' team, the one the locals support. More than one of my Man C supporting friends have given up watching them since they became 'big time', which I see a parallel between that and the 'casual fan' talk we get a lot of. In many ways, Man C won over the 'casual fan' and as a result lost that identity that they'd made and the community that they were.

In the same way, I see sportscar racing (despite the best efforts of ACO, IMSA, SRO sometimes!) as one for the purists amongst motor racing fans. I grew up with Formula 1 in the 80s and 90s and like myself, many who were besotted with it back then are horrified by what it has become whereas a whole new breed of people that used to think of me as 'the weird one who likes car racing' now ask for my opinions about the Malaysian Grand Prix.

F1, just as Manchester United, might be an evil, but it's a necessary evil to keep 'my' sport as one that I understand and appreciate. We have our community and it has its in-jokes, its own language and its own identity.

Now if only I was able to watch the bloody thing......



(For the record, and very off-topic; as a Bradford City season ticket holder, I didn't go to Wembley last year for the exact reason above!)

[tux]

Obviously Audi, Toyota, Porsche are going to use Spa as a pre le mans test BUT with the weather looking the way it is if Porsche were to gamble on a high downforce setup they may be looking at their first victory

[wdave0]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Hell, let's find something pointless and inane to moan about, shall we..... That is the great delight of Internet forums, isn't it? I suppose we can either look for things to moan about or get on and get a life and enjoy it I guess.

I'm perfectly content with the feeder series jibe - I feel that F1 often needs the **** to be taken out of it's exalted status these days.

How times have changed, it was once normal for the better drivers to do F1 and sportscars at the same time and neither was considered the lesser endeavor. I'd say it's a feature of modern society - specialization in everything, and marketing means more than content,unfortunately.

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by Rodger Davies

Really good analogy, but not sure I completely agree with your conclusion; I used to live in the area and it used to be what defined that club as the purists' team, the one the locals support. More than one of my Man C supporting friends have given up watching them since they became 'big time', which I see a parallel between that and the 'casual fan' talk we get a lot of. In many ways, Man C won over the 'casual fan' and as a result lost that identity that they'd made and the community that they were.

In the same way, I see sportscar racing (despite the best efforts of ACO, IMSA, SRO sometimes!) as one for the purists amongst motor racing fans. I grew up with Formula 1 in the 80s and 90s and like myself, many who were besotted with it back then are horrified by what it has become whereas a whole new breed of people that used to think of me as 'the weird one who likes car racing' now ask for my opinions about the Malaysian Grand Prix.

F1, just as Manchester United, might be an evil, but it's a necessary evil to keep 'my' sport as one that I understand and appreciate. We have our community and it has its in-jokes, its own language and its own identity.

Now if only I was able to watch the bloody thing......

I can certainly understand how some long-time fans want to keep the jovial atmosphere about sportscars and not want it to reach the "casual fan", but to me wanting this and a continual increase in involvement/support seems like having your cake and eating it. Unfortunately when a significant amount of money is brought into the top-level any sport, the innate pressures to succeed that come with it suck a little bit/some/a lot of* the fun out it for all involved.

In terms of LMP1 we've been sort of lucky that only Audi have done so in recent times (you either wanted them to win or lose - simples), and the Audi/Toyota/Porsche threads are in nowhere near as petty as the myraid of Alonso/Hamilton/Vettel arguments, but I can't see how the introduction of more money, in the form of more manufacturers, won't lead to more bickering. Being picky, you could say this is already happening in GT3, but the nature of BoP in GT3 means that the ire tends to be drawn towards the organisers instead of "rival" fans.

So what is the right balance for the sportscar racing to strike between maintaining the communal atmosphere and attracting significant investment if it exists, or do we accept the cyclical nature of participation and just enjoy the good times while they last?

*Delete as necessary

Originally Posted by Rodger Davies

(For the record, and very off-topic; as a Bradford City season ticket holder, I didn't go to Wembley last year for the exact reason above!)

I'll respond via PM in order to keep this thread vaguely on-topic. I should warn you though, I'm a lifelong United fan!

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by wdave0

How times have changed, it was once normal for the better drivers to do F1 and sportscars at the same time and neither was considered the lesser endeavor. I'd say it's a feature of modern society - specialization in everything, and marketing means more than content,unfortunately.

I struggle to even remember the last current F1 driver to drive at Le Mans. Often not helped by a Le Mans/GP clash, of course. I suspect that most F1 drivers' contracts now prohibit such a dangerous activity......


But as J Jay says, we're well off-topic.......

[Adam43]

I think it is good that it is pointed out that it is tiresome. When trotting out some tired comment about another series it means you're not talking about sportscar racing. Especially as with very little effort you could easily do the same about sportscar racing. For every boring aero race there is a BoP injustice. Yet two wrongs make a right it seems here.

I've stopped subscribing to a publication because of it was too geared towards F1 and I've stopped subscribing to sportscar media because of its overbearing editorials. Ha, the media!
Spend your money on getting the coverage to watch the races, going to races (any series) and making your own mind up; the specialist media is not doing it for me at the moment.

Sportscar, it's the same as F1, but with the superiority complex replaced with a chip on the shoulder. Both are tedious for the motorsport enthusiast

Well I feel a little better after that rant!

[Nick Woodbury]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I struggle to even remember the last current F1 driver to drive at Le Mans. Often not helped by a Le Mans/GP clash, of course. I suspect that most F1 drivers' contracts now prohibit such a dangerous activity......

Romain Grosjean, 2010. I only know that purely because I was re-watching the 2010 Le Mans race weeks ago and I believe he drove for the Matech Competition Ford GT.

[Salamus]

Originally Posted by Nick Woodbury

Romain Grosjean, 2010. I only know that purely because I was re-watching the 2010 Le Mans race weeks ago and I believe he drove for the Matech Competition Ford GT.

Grosjean didn't compete in F1 in 2010. Victor_RO probably has the correct answer with Sebastien Bourdais in 2009.

...Back to the WEC 2014 season...

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Nick Woodbury

Romain Grosjean, 2010. I only know that purely because I was re-watching the 2010 Le Mans race weeks ago and I believe he drove for the Matech Competition Ford GT.

He wasn't a current F1 driver at that moment, he'd been given the boot at the end of 2009 and only came back to F1 in 2012.

[wdave0]

I guess I am really living in the past - I was thinking of a little longer ago - Stirling Moss, Graham Hill, Jo Bonnier, Dan Gurney, Mario Andretti for example

[Pontlieue]

As a Formula 1 fan who is quite disappointed about the way this series has been heading for the last three years, I find the "feeder series" joke quite funny, although it's becoming a bit old. But of course it's a joke, as most ex-F1 drivers didn't leave F1 voluntarily to enter sportscar racing. But it's still nice to see some really talented drivers entering sportscar racing.

On a more serious note about the feeder series joke: I think there is a reason why many ex-F1 drivers end up in sportscars. There are very few single seater series apart from F1 that aren't meant to be feeder series. Only IndyCar and probably Super Formula as well.

The difference in sports cars is that there are lots of series which aren't junior series. WEC, TUSC, ELMS, BES, BSS, various local GT series. That variety of series, combined with several drivers sharing a car, means that there are far more race seats available than in single seaters. This explains why many drivers who become too old for the junior single seater categories end up in sportscars.

For Formula 1 drivers, it's a bit different. LMP1 cars are about the fastest non-single seater cars, and also close to single seaters when it comes to driving style. So that makes especially LMP1 attractive for ex-F1 drivers. It's also important that Le Mans is a race which many drivers, F1 drivers too, want to do at some point during their careers.

Formula 1 is still the ultimate goal for most young drivers, but sportscar racing is one of the most attractive alternatives for talented drivers who don't have the funding required to join F1, as demonstrated by Fabio Leimer's decision to sign for Rebellion.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Pontlieue

As a Formula 1 fan who is quite disappointed about the way this series has been heading for the last three years, I find the "feeder series" joke quite funny, although it's becoming a bit old. But of course it's a joke, as most ex-F1 drivers didn't leave F1 voluntarily to enter sportscar racing. But it's still nice to see some really talented drivers entering sportscar racing.

Forgot to say, yes it is an amusing line. Once and not to be said seriously.

[Aysedasi]

Probably not, but it's a shame that it isn't.........

[Adam43]

Maybe it would be an interesting turn of events.

I don't really care though, I just want to watch and talk about the race.

[Mal]

Originally Posted by Pontlieue

As a Formula 1 fan who is quite disappointed about the way this series has been heading for the last three years, I find the "feeder series" joke quite funny, although it's becoming a bit old. But of course it's a joke, as most ex-F1 drivers didn't leave F1 voluntarily to enter sportscar racing. But it's still nice to see some really talented drivers entering sportscar racing.

On a more serious note about the feeder series joke: I think there is a reason why many ex-F1 drivers end up in sportscars. There are very few single seater series apart from F1 that aren't meant to be feeder series. Only IndyCar and probably Super Formula as well.

The difference in sports cars is that there are lots of series which aren't junior series. WEC, TUSC, ELMS, BES, BSS, various local GT series. That variety of series, combined with several drivers sharing a car, means that there are far more race seats available than in single seaters. This explains why many drivers who become too old for the junior single seater categories end up in sportscars.

For Formula 1 drivers, it's a bit different. LMP1 cars are about the fastest non-single seater cars, and also close to single seaters when it comes to driving style. So that makes especially LMP1 attractive for ex-F1 drivers. It's also important that Le Mans is a race which many drivers, F1 drivers too, want to do at some point during their careers.

Formula 1 is still the ultimate goal for most young drivers, but sportscar racing is one of the most attractive alternatives for talented drivers who don't have the funding required to join F1, as demonstrated by Fabio Leimer's decision to sign for Rebellion.

Well it seems to be feeding sportscars a few fans .....

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I struggle to even remember the last current F1 driver to drive at Le Mans. Often not helped by a Le Mans/GP clash, of course. I suspect that most F1 drivers' contracts now prohibit such a dangerous activity......


But as J Jay says, we're well off-topic.......

Though not in lmp1, Kamui Kobayashi in the Ferrari 458, who is now supposedly driving for free at Caterham

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by TF110

Though not in lmp1, Kamui Kobayashi in the Ferrari 458, who is now supposedly driving for free at Caterham

He wasn't current F1 driver at the time he did Le Mans last year, had been kicked out from Sauber already so it didn't count