USCC (leave your axe outside)

[WolfsburgRS]

Although I was certainly more a fan of the ALMS than Grand AM, I do wonder: Has the fact that there have been only a few teams in the past few years in the ALMS P categories lead to those teams not really being as good, end of story, as those in DP.

Where DP may have been spec, there were 5-6 teams fighting it out. More teams = stronger competition and evolving to win. If all you have to do is beat "the other team" maybe it's not really much of a benchmark for how good the ALMS P teams were in the first place.

Clearly the P2 cars are close, if at certain disadvantages, but maybe the ALMS P teams needs to stop crying about it and just get better.

[ttdriver2009]

Originally Posted by joeb

you are pretty much reading the sources.

Good to know there are reliable sources here. I'm just trying to play catch up with all of this. Just took the day off and watching the feed and timing (I should be doing yard work but that can wait).

[Danathar]

Originally Posted by joeb

you are pretty much reading the sources.

Oh, it's hard to tell who is "in the garage" here on the forums

IF ESM and Oak pull out, the series is going to have do some quick footwork. All this mantra about how "good" the BoP is will look pretty silly if all the P2 cars (Mazda is just a test team) pull from races.

They don't NEED to do much, simply reduce the HP on the DP's a little and the BoP will be almost perfect. The cars will be never be exactly the same, but they've done a pretty good job getting the DP cars to handle better. Then again, I guess that wasn't THAT hard if you throw a couple hundred K at the problem.

[ttdriver2009]

Why doesn't IMSA just reduce the power a bit? Seems like it would be easy to do. Then the P2 cars would all come back and there would be more cars. I would think you'd want more cars out on the track.

[Danathar]

Originally Posted by ttdriver2009

Why doesn't IMSA just reduce the power a bit? Seems like it would be easy to do. Then the P2 cars would all come back and there would be more cars. I would think you'd want more cars out on the track.

Who knows. You can invent all sorts of negative conspiracy stuff if you want.

It could be that they think that the DP owners are more important as a group (along with Ford and GM as engine manufacturers) than the P2 cars, especially since DP owners had to shell out BIG bucks to get their cars faster than GTE and P2.

We might just be basically DP until the new regs for P2 cars are here which IMSA said they were going to adopt in 2017.

Since they upgraded DP's, sure they are now fast and maneuverable. And I'll even say the corvette DP looks cool.

But everybody knows, the rest of the world simply does not care about DP racing, and in the U.S. neither does most of the core racing fans (many more ALMS than Grand AM fans).

If you want to be taken seriously against competition in the rest of the world you have to be running the formula of cars the rest of the world is running AND you have to be at LeMans. It's that simple.

[Speed-King]

If you want to be taken seriously against competition in the rest of the world you have to be running the formula of cars the rest of the world is running AND you have to be at LeMans.

Yeah, just like Super GT.... errrm, wait....

[Christian Mogami]

The biggest problem is the tire!!!!

It was design for the DP so it is really not a fair spec tire.

The P2 is 2+seconds slower on them compared to tires design for a P2.

I see the only way to fix the problem is let the P2 run P2 tires!!!!!

Then the P2 can take the fight to the DP but it will be tough because they would have to pass going into the corner or out of the corner(hope the DP doesn't repass you down the straight) because the DP would still own the straights.

Source....Marshall was talking about this at the MW Radio Show this week.

[Danathar]

Originally Posted by Christian Mogami

The biggest problem is the tire!!!!

It was design for the DP so it is really not a fair spec tire.

The P2 is 2+seconds slower on them compared to tires design for a P2.

I see the only way to fix the problem is let the P2 run P2 tires!!!!!

Then the P2 can take the fight to the DP but it will be tough because they would have to pass going into the corner or out of the corner(hope the DP doesn't repass you down the straight) because the DP would still own the straights.

Source....Marshall was talking about this at the MW Radio Show this week.

They may not be able to do that contractually (the series) since they signed with continental for prototypes.

I bet continental can make a good tire for the P2, but the current tire is designed for DP so it sucks for P2 cars to have to wear shoes designed for another person.

[ttdriver2009]

FIA GT3 cars don't run at LeMans. So, they are not taken seriously either.

[Danathar]

Originally Posted by ttdriver2009

FIA GT3 cars don't run at LeMans. So, they are not taken seriously either.

Well, GT3 I think is a special case. It has a lot of support elsewhere.

TUSCC specific cars (GT-D and DP) run nowhere else.

[ttdriver2009]

If IMSA let the P2 cars run a P2 tire that makes them 2 seconds a lap faster than they are now, wouldn't all of the DP teams pull out? Why not make a generic tire like they do for a series like Pirelli World Challenge and let the teams figure out how to make the car work around it? Couldn't Continental do that? If they couldn't, then why not go to a different tire supplier (i.e. Michelin)?

[Lagunaseca_4life]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

Already at my hotel waiting! Can't wait for the (early) morning session.

Well i hope ur enjoying your day,we had a long night.

The was an accident north bound five and some idiots decided to turn around infront of us going south bound,completely cut us off.we did everithing in our power to miss them but unfortunately the pick up behind us just barely rear ended us.now the truck is probably totaled and were home with a rental car.

We are going to do everything we can to get there by tonight hopefully bu qualifying,7 hour drive though this **** better be worth it! And by t&s its not looking good p2 wise.

Hope you guys have fun and well see where this mess ends up.....

[Scooter185]

Originally Posted by ttdriver2009

FIA GT3 cars don't run at LeMans. So, they are not taken seriously either.

nah they just run 24 hours at Spa, the full N'Ring, Dubai, and 12 hours at Bathurst.

Which is another reason why IMSA should look at making GTD full GT3 spec. The same team could theoretically run Dubai*, Daytona, Sebring, Bathurst*, the Nring, and Spa

* not likely with the same car due to shipping a car half way across the world

[ttdriver2009]

Originally Posted by Danathar

Well, GT3 I think is a special case. It has a lot of support elsewhere.

TUSCC specific cars (GT-D and DP) run nowhere else.

Thanks for clarifying that. Since the cars don't run anywhere else, it is hard to take them seriously. Sort of like V8Supercar, BTCC, Super GT and Superstars World. GTD and DP are a national series like the others I mentioned. They might go to some other country to run once in a while but they are specifically based in their geographical region.

It makes sense because P2 and GTLM are an international standard and can be raced anywhere, including LeMans. With those classes, they have a global following as opposed to the others that are just national. I'd consider these national classes as a stepping stone to the global stage. Maybe they are not liked but they do offer a feeder for the global classes. Like the local dirt track feeding to NASCAR. DP and GTD serve as a feeder to P2 and GTLM. Maybe these classes are not liked but they do serve a purpose. Having a feeder class running with the serious global classes is not the best idea. They need to separate them out.

[Matt]

Er you don't take V8SC seriously?

[skycafe]

Let's please not drag V8SC into this discussion, it really isn't needed I don't think!

[Danathar]

Originally Posted by ttdriver2009

Thanks for clarifying that. Since the cars don't run anywhere else, it is hard to take them seriously. Sort of like V8Supercar, BTCC, Super GT and Superstars World. GTD and DP are a national series like the others I mentioned. They might go to some other country to run once in a while but they are specifically based in their geographical region.

It makes sense because P2 and GTLM are an international standard and can be raced anywhere, including LeMans. With those classes, they have a global following as opposed to the others that are just national. I'd consider these national classes as a stepping stone to the global stage. Maybe they are not liked but they do offer a feeder for the global classes. Like the local dirt track feeding to NASCAR. DP and GTD serve as a feeder to P2 and GTLM. Maybe these classes are not liked but they do serve a purpose. Having a feeder class running with the serious global classes is not the best idea. They need to separate them out.

In part, it's not just TUSCC that is causing this.

The WEC has developed as the premier series for international sports car racing. Before the WEC came on strong, the ALMS had that role (except for LeMans).

If only we had better coverage of the WEC in the U.S.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by Danathar

Wouldn't surprise me in the least. I doubt ESM would bolt though. They have sponsors they have to contractually live up to which probably means showing up and racing.

Seeing as ESM is funded fully by Patron, the CEO is Ed Brown...I'm quite certain he decides where the money is going to go. And should he decide that the money isn't being spent wisely, I'm quite sure, contract or not, he can choose to stop spending money there. I would highly doubt that the contract written for sponsorship has language in it that would allow them to back out whenever you want. Not doing it would be very, very dumb.

OAK has to be looking to ship everything back home. I cannot see how, or why, they would continue.

The P2 gap is anywhere from 0.9-1.8 sec behind the DP. Sorry IMSA, your BoP still sucks.

Even if the race goes perfectly this weekend, and the P2 cars still are lagging behind, don't be surprised if they don't return for Round 4. The only BoP change was a boost pressure change for the Ford DP....Really?

What really baffles me is that the Ford-DP gets a nearly 2.7mm larger restrictor, and slightly less boost. 0.4psi less.

29.7psi max boost for the HPD
25.5psi for the Ford.

[ttdriver2009]

There has to be an exit clause for Patron (nobody would ever write a contract today without one). It'll be writing a check and they can walk away. Without having a fighting chance to win, Patron might consider exercising this option. What else to consider, let them start winning races and it looks like Patron bought the championship.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by ttdriver2009

There has to be an exit clause for Patron (nobody would ever write a contract today without one). It'll be writing a check and they can walk away. Without having a fighting chance to win, Patron might consider exercising this option. What else to consider, let them start winning races and it looks like Patron bought the championship.

I wrote that wrong....lol. Of course there is a clause for them to bail.

Should have read...
I would highly doubt that the contract written for sponsorship doesn't have language in it that would allow them to back out whenever you want

[joeb]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

OAK has to be looking to ship everything back home. I cannot see how, or why, they would continue.

Oak stated they are running this year to promote sales of their new chassis. Leaving mid-season isn't the best way to showcase your wares. Don't be surprised to see a Ligier pop up later this season either.

[blankfile]

Well if this keeps up just remember, it will only (or should i say should) be for maximum 2 years we keep DP's. I just hope the series survives until 2016 to have proper prototypes and gt's doing their stuff.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by joeb

Oak stated they are running this year to promote sales of their new chassis. Leaving mid-season isn't the best way to showcase your wares. Don't be surprised to see a Ligier pop up later this season either.

Yes they are, although, there is enough demonstrated speed, and reliability to look at for teams that are interested. If they leave mid-season, it will not affect anyone that isn't already in talks. About the worst thing it would do, would inhibit physical inspection of said chassis. Granted, I'm sure both Zytek and OAK would be more than happy to use someone like Dyson to hold a chassis.

As for the Ligier, yes, 8-Star confirmed that some time ago...just a matter of engines.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by joeb

Oak stated they are running this year to promote sales of their new chassis. Leaving mid-season isn't the best way to showcase your wares. Don't be surprised to see a Ligier pop up later this season either.

Is the fact losing to DP's helping? I think thats the talking point. Why even look to P2 in the future when you can see the rule makers favortise "their cars" currently? Who would want to run in the series where your car has little chance to shine? They need to prove they can equalise cars. So far, a few teams voices are being heard by withdraws.

[Salamus]

Why are people commenting as if the P2s have been obliterated by the DPs. We are dealing with a very small sample size: 2 races. One of those races, Daytona, gave the clear edge to DPs due to the nature of the track. Sebring was a much closer affair...I mean, ESM were leading and had a very good chance of winning. It's not perfect but it isn't completely lopsided either...unless I'm watching the wrong series.