24h Nürburgring/VLN - Page 18

Senninha24 · 16 May 2010, 13:24 (Ref:2691493)

Excellent job Schnitzer and BMW! Fantastic work, they really know how to win endurance races. Far from the fastest car, they drove well and overcame that minor blip on #26 and the Gearbox scare on #25 to take an much deserved victory. Class drivers on both teams, I really didn't know Pedro Lamy had won so many times here, all time tied leader is very impressive.

Farnbacher were very impressive, I hope they do well at Le Mans. Kool seeing a new Ludwig on podium with Luca in the Audi.

Tough luck for Porsche, I think everyone expected more from them. I hope they can get their reliability back to being bulletproof as is normal. The primary Audi's also sad to see them drop out one by one, but overall a FANTASTIC race, I feel sad it's over, I really had a great weekend watching this whole event with the great stream and flawless RLM coverage. Bring on Le Mans! Doing whole 24 hour weekends at home give me a special feeling enough, I really hope to be at at least one in person next year!

Acid09 · 16 May 2010, 13:36 (Ref:2691498)

Incredible, the last hour was very painful though - I couldn't sit still for a minute ...

Fantastic stuff by BMW and Schnitzer, they had by no means the fastest car but made most of it.

Bitter disappointment for Porsche, I can hardly recall the last time no 911 was on the podium. And even worse for Audi, that was a major defeat.

Fiorentina 1 · 16 May 2010, 16:28 (Ref:2691662)

The Hybrid Porsche was super impressive, I'm sorry it didn't win it. I always wondered why there weren't any Ferrari's in this race. Now with the Farnbacher F430 finishing a strong second, maybe there will be more of them in the future. There are enough F430's racing in Italian GT, Open GT etc, so it's not a question of limit of cars. But, nice to see Uwe Alzen win this race!

Spyderman · 16 May 2010, 16:32 (Ref:2691667)

According to EVO, the Hybrid's troubles were due to transmission problems.
http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/25...tors_view.html

ubrben · 16 May 2010, 17:06 (Ref:2691716)

Are we sure the BMW was slow? Best lap times sorted in order:

Pos Nr. Name Laps Gap Best
168 1 Lieb 47 107L 08:28.6
62 2 Abt 125 29L 08:32.5
1 25 Müller 154 08:32.6
7 26 Werner 150 4L 08:34.1
103 8 Arnold 112 42L 08:34.1
17 9 Bergmeister 142 12L 08:35.4
170 98 Basseng 41 113L 08:35.6
177 12 Mamerow 31 123L 08:36.1
169 100 Ekström 47 107L 08:36.5
116 99 Biela 103 51L 08:38.2
2 43 Farnbacher 154 03:54.2 08:39.3
3 97 Rostek 153 1L 08:42.0
6 20 Alzen 151 3L 08:42.5

Ok Lieb was on another level, but he had the clearest track at the start.

The winning BMW was faster than a lot of the Audis and the hybrid Porsche.

Ben

GTfour · 16 May 2010, 17:07 (Ref:2691718)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spyderman

According to EVO, the Hybrid's troubles were due to transmission problems.
http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/25...tors_view.html

Impressive to see a street standard car finish 13th !

**skycafe** · 16 May 2010, 17:38 (Ref:2691770)

through that EVO link I was able to see video of the Lotus fire, WOW!

I was hoping for the Hybrid, but happy with a BMW win as it ain't an Audi.

Acid09 · 16 May 2010, 17:44 (Ref:2691782)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubrben

Are we sure the BMW was slow? Best lap times sorted in order:

Ok Lieb was on another level, but he had the clearest track at the start.

The winning BMW was faster than a lot of the Audis and the hybrid Porsche.

Ben

I´ve observed the timing for most of the race. The BMW was close in terms of quickest laps but the Porsches and Audis put out these quick laps more regularly - Their average lap time was much better I think.

porsche91722 · 16 May 2010, 19:51 (Ref:2691920)

Well done BMW. Porsche and Audi would be disappointed with their results and in the way it all took place. That's endurance racing. Great call from Hindy and the boys at RLM.
What a great stream. It's a pity that we can't get a quality live stream as good as that for most other major races. I'm looking forward to next weekends ALMS at Laguna Seca. It seems as though a lot more tracks / series/ promoters are getting more proactive with the fans now.

Speed-King · 16 May 2010, 20:09 (Ref:2691949)

Just came back from the track (the actual drive wasn't all that long, but it took a while until we got moving, andhundreds of racefans invading a Burger King with 2 (TWO) registers at an Autobahn truck stop didn't help either). First time at the N24 for me and what an awesome race, if at a most miserable place (as far as the weather goes)...

My memories don't really go back that far, but from what I've read, this race was a lot like Le Mans 1998 - the favourites hunting each other down, and a slower than expected programme coming out on top...

Porsche lost that one because they only had "rabbits" and no reliable "roller"...

AndrewF31 · 16 May 2010, 20:41 (Ref:2691973)

Terrific race. Wonderful job by the RLM boys, soldiering it out the whole race. Hopefully next year we'll have even more coverage at the circuit to support RLM.

Really happy for Lamy and tying Tiemann's record.

Business from hour 1 to the finish, amazing.

Sad that our thread starter, Atle, didn't reach the end.

Sad that the 'entertaining' BMW was taken out by the little Mini Cooper that certainly got distracted!
Would have loved to see more of Kermit and Katie, and a bit of better luck at the end for Kermit.

So much to say, not enough brain to remember it all!

pannenmann · 16 May 2010, 22:11 (Ref:2692053)

Great job by BMW and also by Ferrari. Audi was not doing well at all considering their massive number of cars they had within the front runners. The speed also didn't seem as high as expected.
Shame for Porsche, they really need to sort this out before it becomes it an image issue I think. Their roadcars having problems being faster than US/Japanese cars, Audi being a serious competetor, their racing cars having reliablity issues. But I was surprised the hybrid 911 did so well, didn't expect that one at all. Sad when it messes up after running for such a long time and almost seeing the finishing line...

**skycafe** · 16 May 2010, 22:27 (Ref:2692065)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewF31

Sad that our thread starter, Atle, didn't reach the end.

I was going to ask about that, as I have challenge on the ADAC site.

GTfour · 16 May 2010, 22:30 (Ref:2692068)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speed-King

this race was a lot like Le Mans 1998 - the favourites hunting each other down, and a slower than expected programme coming out on top...

Porsche lost that one because they only had "rabbits" and no reliable "roller"...

Erhm... Le Mans 1998 was one of the finest wins of the Stuttgart mark sofar.
Porsche celebrated 50 years excistance,Ferry had sadly passed away that year and against overwhelming competition,Porsche won outright with a 1-2 finish. It was no doubt the best race I have ever witnessed...

Speed-King · 17 May 2010, 05:17 (Ref:2692213)

Ah, maybe that didn't come out quite the way I intended it... This years N24 reminded me of LM 1998, but this time BMW played the "role" Porsche played back then.

The comment at the end about Porsche not having a "roller" was in regard to this year's race...

Spyderman · 17 May 2010, 05:52 (Ref:2692224)

The "roller" was the Hybrid.
Their focus was on fuel saving and not on speed. It couldn't be! The car weighs 155Kg more than the normal R (including +25Kg weight penalty).

Spyderman · 17 May 2010, 07:52 (Ref:2692280)

Confirmation that it was engine and not transmission that brought the Hybrid to a stop.

After 22 hours and 15 minutes, the leading orange-and-white 911 GT3 R Hybrid retired with engine damage in the Metzgesfeld passage. “I heard a loud noise at the rear of the car and suddenly the power went,” says Porsche works driver Joerg Bergmeister (Germany) describing the abrupt end of all hopes for victory.

Despite a disappointing race, Chairman of the Board at Porsche AG, Michael Macht, who visited the race on Sunday, came to a positive conclusion: “It wasn’t enough for a win, but the Porsche hybrid technology clearly proved its potential at one of the world’s toughest races. We will continue developing this innovative drive concept. That was certainly not the last race for a Porsche hybrid car.”

Wolfgang Dürheimer, Board Member for Research and Development at Porsche AG, gives an outlook to the future: “The 911 GT3 R Hybrid has proven that highest performance and a unique efficiency don’t exclude each other. The vehicle shows the technological path to racing in the future.” - Porsche

GTfour · 17 May 2010, 08:05 (Ref:2692290)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spyderman

The "roller" was the Hybrid.
Their focus was on fuel saving and not on speed. It couldn't be! The car weighs 155Kg more than the normal R (including +25Kg weight penalty).

Yet Uwe Alzen stated that the Hybrid Porsche 'was incredibly quick' seen from his BMW.

Spyderman · 17 May 2010, 08:22 (Ref:2692300)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTfour

Yet Uwe Alzen stated that the Hybrid Porsche 'was incredibly quick' seen from his BMW.

Perhaps in relation to his BMW

Seriously - The hybrid times were substantially slower than the #1 and Memerow car. That is not to say that it was "slow"...but Porsche "rollers" never are.

ubrben · 17 May 2010, 08:27 (Ref:2692306)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Perhaps in relation to his BMW

Seriously - The hybrid times were substantially slower than the #1 and Memerow car. That is not to say that it was "slow"...but Porsche "rollers" never are.

I think with so many classes and the complexity of balancing performance a car like the hybrid Porsche was never going to go flat out. It would be hard to justify 2 laps more fuel milage with the same lap time - you basically kill the race.

I think from a technology point of view, hybrids are an excellent and exciting development, but I think we need to see them in LMP1 cars at Le Mans with Porsche, Ferrari, Audi and Pug all having a version - then it will be a race :-)

Ben

Spyderman · 17 May 2010, 08:32 (Ref:2692309)

Oh don't get me wrong - It will become fast!..Very Fast!...It's just not there yet. That is not their major object at the moment.
(Also - The speed "potential" will also depend on the rules)

Andy77 · 17 May 2010, 08:58 (Ref:2692331)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Porsche lost that one because they only had "rabbits" and no reliable "roller"...

The third placed Audi was one of those reliable rollers it seems. This was a fantastic race this year including the weather change from Thursday to start time.

Hendrik · 17 May 2010, 09:24 (Ref:2692344)

Maybe this is of some interest: http://adac.24h-rennen.de/fileadmin/...BOP_%2024h.pdf (Balance of Performance Sheet)

So the Hybrid Porsche was +125 kg, compared to the SP9 Porsches and could use the big 120l tank instead of 100l for SP9 Porsches and BMW (SP9 and GT2). No wonder, this car could do longer stints.

arakis · 17 May 2010, 09:52 (Ref:2692358)

so it wasnt more efficient, and all the hybrid's power was used for performance gain and it still didnt balance out the performance lost by the weight gain, either porsche was sandbaging or the hybrid's technology is a dud!

I seriosly don't see this or any other hybrid cometing in gt2 ACO sancioned races in any near furure, there is simply no point, the development costs are already running wild and this would give an unfair addvantige witch other teams would have to spend a lot of money to develop!

To answer a question about my wishes for the porsche hybrid wining, I realy like Bergmaister, he is one seriosly crazy german! and second, any one who sits in a car next to a 40,000 rpm spining blades of death that spew lightning deserves my respect, 3rdly the ferrari effort wasn't even remotly serius, and I'd rather see a dedicated race team win it because off preparation, profesionalisam and experience, then a half serius effort win it because all other competitors kissed the wall, blew their engines and transmisions! now if the AF or risi was there with 2 cars that would have been a whole different story

Spyderman · 17 May 2010, 10:24 (Ref:2692382)

Quote:

Originally Posted by arakis

so it wasnt more efficient, and all the hybrid's power was used for performance gain and it still didnt balance out the performance lost by the weight gain, either porsche was sandbaging or the hybrid's technology is a dud!

No - That isn't true. The Audi's also had 120 L tanks and were only managing 9 lap stints.
Also they (the Hybrid) had a 25Kg weight penalty.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arakis

I seriosly don't see this or any other hybrid cometing in gt2 ACO sancioned races in any near furure, there is simply no point, the development costs are already running wild and this would give an unfair addvantige witch other teams would have to spend a lot of money to develop!

..unless of course Ferrari developed their system; then it would be "an advancement in racing technology"

But I agree that we wont see this in GT2. I don't think that that is where Porsche is aiming for it's use either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arakis

To answer a question about my wishes for the porsche hybrid wining, I realy like Bergmaister, he is one seriosly crazy german! and second, any one who sits in a car next to a 40,000 rpm spining blades of death that spew lightning deserves my respect,

Yes, but so do at least another three guys.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Do you race VLN or 24h at the Ring ?	lasseoe	Sportscar & GT Racing	2	30 Jun 2009 14:56
24h Nürburgring 2008	spookyt_de	Sportscar & GT Racing	440	28 May 2008 15:35
Offer: Opel/Vauxhall Astra Gr. N for 24H-Nürburgring	sorg-renn-sport	Racers Forum	5	14 Feb 2003 13:50
Offer: Opel/Vauxhall Astra Gr.N for the 24H-Nürburgring	sorg-renn-sport	National & Club Racing	1	24 Mar 2002 13:40