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Old 15 Sep 2007, 07:17 (Ref:2013374)   #276
terence
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Another thing that is not on the New HTP,s ,is a provision for the vehicals Chassis Number,perhaps just a draughting error?.Idealy,there would be a way of securing the C number to it,s rightfull place on the car,supprising how many are only screwed on!
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Old 15 Sep 2007, 08:01 (Ref:2013407)   #277
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Terry

The Fia have a photo of the chassis plte on their copy, we don't, I guess thats supposed to help in some way

tank capacitites are on homologation papers and SHOULD be on the HTP in my opinion

My car has an enormous boot and had a great record in long distance races as they homologated the std 36l tank, another 36 litre tank and a 56 litre tank . . . therefore 6 hours with one stop is possible and lkegal, which might make a small benefit over bigger cars, assuming they're heavy drinkers with small tanks!
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Old 15 Sep 2007, 08:26 (Ref:2013427)   #278
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Eddy V should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridEddy V should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by zefarelly
they're heavy drinkers with small tanks!
Now where did I hear this before?
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Old 15 Sep 2007, 14:24 (Ref:2013663)   #279
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Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
FWIW,

I've just booked garage space in the F1 pits for the Capri.
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Old 15 Sep 2007, 14:30 (Ref:2013669)   #280
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zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!
Blimey . . .xmas bonio come early ?

out of interest was that mortgage money ?
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Old 15 Sep 2007, 14:31 (Ref:2013671)   #281
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Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
£70.00

Might even have a new job by Christmas too.
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Old 15 Sep 2007, 14:54 (Ref:2013699)   #282
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
So thats where the party is!
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Old 15 Sep 2007, 17:16 (Ref:2013824)   #283
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[quote=zefarelly]Terry

The Fia have a photo of the chassis plte on their copy, we don't, I guess thats supposed to help in some way

Actually the MSA do.
What has the chassis number to do with the eligiblity of the car?To ensure the car and the papers go together there is a bar coded sticker which goes on each.
Has anyone ever been interested in the chassis number of a car at a race meeting as far as the racing is concerned, so there is no need to muddy the waters with arguments among the anoraks about which car is which.
If the number is a big deal there is the FIA Heritage Certificate which is backed up by a whole lot of research and defines the car.
HTP stands for Histroic Technical Passport-no more. The major issue is that it is a snapshot document which needs to be reassessed by a competent persomn every time the car runs to it
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Old 15 Sep 2007, 19:06 (Ref:2013894)   #284
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I understand that Jeremy,but is not the chassis number important to the cars history.I,ve just heard of a certain car in America that claims to be the one over here.This is not the first time this has happened,not just America[admittedly there does seem to be more from that side of the pond!] but also Japan.There was a case of a Lotus Elite only a short while ago.I know that a chassis plate is possibly the easiest part to replicate,but if there were some kind of control over them,surely this would not happen as offten as it does?
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Old 15 Sep 2007, 20:08 (Ref:2013948)   #285
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big tanks in historic race cars is an apendix K item and not a HTP item or????
I think Esper is right.....tanks is appendix K...........
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Old 15 Sep 2007, 20:38 (Ref:2013978)   #286
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
It is AppK,but that catagorie does not state that anyone can have whatever size tank they think they will have.the suggestion was made so that when a car is presented for Scrutineering,the Scrutineer has the capacity in front of him.If the capacity is engraved onto the tank[ for instance]and also writen on the HTP,then there is no argument.
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Old 16 Sep 2007, 08:03 (Ref:2014253)   #287
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Well said JEremy, HTP is the spec of the car, documented specific car history is another subject entirely.

I have an HTP as my car is built and prepared to the same specification ( and appearance for whay little its worth) as the car was homologated in May 1963

the problem is too many cars get rebuilt after the stickers go on and never get checked

Esper/LC driver

tank capacities are on Homologation papers and should be adhered to, end of.
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Old 16 Sep 2007, 10:40 (Ref:2014396)   #288
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Simon Hadfield should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridSimon Hadfield should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
And watching the Porsche Supercup they dont seem to be too worried about which parts of Belgium they let you race on!
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Old 16 Sep 2007, 11:35 (Ref:2014446)   #289
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Eddy V should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridEddy V should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Don't be too sure about that for the 6 hour Simon. 4 wheels off could be punished hard.
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Old 16 Sep 2007, 12:48 (Ref:2014530)   #290
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zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!
its about time it was . . .didn't Simon Garrad have his MGB written off last year as a direct consequence of some bell end in a porker overtaking him on the grass and punting him off in the process. . . . he got away with it as well
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Old 16 Sep 2007, 13:40 (Ref:2014570)   #291
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Originally Posted by terence bower
I understand that Jeremy,but is not the chassis number important to the cars history.I,ve just heard of a certain car in America that claims to be the one over here.This is not the first time this has happened,not just America[admittedly there does seem to be more from that side of the pond!] but also Japan.There was a case of a Lotus Elite only a short while ago.I know that a chassis plate is possibly the easiest part to replicate,but if there were some kind of control over them,surely this would not happen as offten as it does?
Yes Terry exactly but it is not the job of the ASN or FIA on a Technical Passport to be doing the research work to confirm chassis number. Technical passport is what it is -its about technical not the cars's history. If you or anyone wants a full History check done it costs and has liabilty issues hence the Heritage Certificate. There were too many cars which were blagged through with a fake number on the old HVIF for anyones comfort.Remember the papers are issued by ASN's -very often a school leaver who has no idea about history but can check dimensional stuff.
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Old 16 Sep 2007, 16:06 (Ref:2014727)   #292
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I think the new system is good.

The issues we're facing/discussing are whether vehicles are presented as per their HTP's, and quite clearly many aren't, we need eligibility checks at race meetings and we need them now.

obviously invitation series aren't going to do it or fund it, they're commercial businesses bla bla bla . . .maybe it could be down to competitors to randomly check each others cars ? simple stuff even your average banker could manage!

wheel base, track, weight, basic engine check ( electronic ignition, No of cylinders/carbs etc, exhaust header diameter)

anyone could knock up a simple check sheet in 5 minutes, if every competitor committed and volunteered 10 minutes of their time we'd have it sorted.

left hand homologation papers, right hand HTP . . . look at car, job done

as for history and provenance, thats another ongoing subject entirely and not really relevant to this thread
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Old 16 Sep 2007, 16:48 (Ref:2014779)   #293
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I fully appreciate your point Jeremy,As I said ,its the easyist part of a restoration project to replicate a chassis plate,but what my point is,is that if a car has had the Heritage done,all numbers being correct,what more could you ask for than to have the Bar Coding from the HTP as well,I take it that the bar code would be pretty much impossible to replicate?.Therefore,the car that has both,must be what it claims to be.That would then save an awfull lot of agro from these cars that come over to our shores from abroad that lay claim to another identity.
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Old 17 Sep 2007, 06:16 (Ref:2015241)   #294
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rogerwills should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridrogerwills should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by zefarelly
My car has an enormous boot and had a great record in long distance races as they homologated the std 36l tank, another 36 litre tank and a 56 litre tank . . . therefore 6 hours with one stop is possible and lkegal, which might make a small benefit over bigger cars, assuming they're heavy drinkers with small tanks!
The Corvette was homologated with a 76 litre, 138 litre and 160 litre tank. Mind you the way it drinks 4 star, it will need it!
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Old 17 Sep 2007, 06:29 (Ref:2015246)   #295
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Perhaps a way around these nggling problems would be for all competitors to have the Homologation forms with them at Scrutineering,we have to produce the HTP and the cost of the Homologation form really does not amount to much.At least that way,the Scrutineers would not need to be a walking encyclopedia of all car,s produced for them to inspect.

Last edited by terence; 17 Sep 2007 at 06:31.
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Old 17 Sep 2007, 06:32 (Ref:2015249)   #296
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rogerwills should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridrogerwills should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
One issue with that is that when you receive your HTP papers you are supposed to also receive a copy of the homologation papers for the car (as part of the cost) but the MSA don't seem to be providing these - or at least didn't for my cars.
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Old 17 Sep 2007, 06:54 (Ref:2015269)   #297
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Not the first time I,ve heard of that Roger,just ahother of the MSA,s little cock-up,s?
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Old 17 Sep 2007, 07:10 (Ref:2015282)   #298
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I,ve been in touch with the MSA concerning some outstanding HTP,s,the good news is that they only have 300 to do before there are all completed!
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Old 17 Sep 2007, 07:34 (Ref:2015302)   #299
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Simon Hadfield should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridSimon Hadfield should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I see this morning that the worst offender in the driving in the Porsche next postcode stakes was given a drive through penalty.
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Old 17 Sep 2007, 07:40 (Ref:2015308)   #300
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Shame the drive through was only that.I had heard that if we put four over we,ll be in for a bit more than a drive through,quite rightly so.
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