Ian Dawsons Radical LMP1 V10 Diesel for Sebring

[knighty]

Just read the news on DSC that Ian Dawson has entered a Radical LMP1 with the old VW based V10 diesel from his old CAT-Lola diesel itproject, I noticed on the Sebring entry sheet said AER, which if true I think would be an ideal engine partner for this motor, as apparently when CAT paid Pi / Pectel to write the ECU programming code, CAT retained the programming and wouldn’t let Ian use it when he tried to develop the engine further when Taurus went independently with Mountune………I was recently told AER have employed the remnants of Pectel, the ECU and programming specialists, which will add to their current in-house ECU company, so AER should be an ideal partner to move the engine development along……….I know the old V10 uses the old pumpe-duze injectors which aint the best starting point, but best of luck me says.

Does anyone know anything about the radical chassis progress?

[ss_collins]

All I know of it is an artists impression Ian showed some of us at the Autosport Show, it looks much like the SR9

[gwyllion]

So the Radical chassis was crash tested according to LMP1 rules?

Can the chassis cope with the huge extra weight? It is very unlikely the car will get to 900 kg... Won't the wheel base be too short for a big V10?

[eddsc]

Target is 960 kg. P2s and P1s are the same physical size (Radical / Lola).

[gwyllion]

Audi and Peugeot have longer wheel base to fit the long diesel engine.

[nobster]

pics or drawings??? links to the project???

[AU N EGL]

dang a third diesel race engine? Very cool. Also wish them the best of luck.

Sebring will be a GOOD race, in many ways. the Different Cars, the Different Engines, the Different fuels used, and oh yes, The race itself.

Which car, engine and fuel will prevail?

[knighty]

I saw the name D1 oils against one of the drivers in the Sebring entry form, so that lead me to think they will be running the D1 bio-diesel, but then I realized the diesel fuel for LeMans racing is supplied by shell, if I’m wrong, please correct me……so they would have to use that me thinks, I dare say shell would be fine with the D1 logo, as I recently heard Shell have bought a majority amount of shares in D1 bio-fuels………If I was Ian, I’d be much happier running the shell fuel, as it’s a very exotic blend, and is well proven by the audis…….. I know in the CAT days they had a lot of problems with soot/black exhaust smoke and fuel foaming, the proper shell fuel will help prevent this

[eddsc]

Quite right, they have to use Shell at Sebring, but want to use a 50/50 bio-Shell mix in the future.

[zac510]

The lack of soot is highly attributed to the particulate filters the Audi/Peugeot use too.

[knighty]

Originally Posted by zac510

The lack of soot is highly attributed to the particulate filters the Audi/Peugeot use too.

correct, the soot filters are there to clean up the remnants of the inefficient combustion process, black smoke is basically partially burnt fuel - which can happen due to a number of reasons, things like late injection, poor combustion design, slow burning fuel etc .......hence more potent race fuel that burns quicker helps the situation, its not THE major factor, but it certainly helps.

anyways......yes, the Audis and pugs run a longer wheelbase me thinks too, as the engine is basically so heavy and long, this helped distribute the weight more evenly......lets all be honest, the radical is going to be a compromise solution, I think the biggest area of concern will be the same as last time in the CAT days.....the gearbox and clutch were just not up to the job, but I think the Radical uses the Ricardo box, and I'm sure this must be a better starting point than the old Lola item......last time the VW/CAT V10 diesel just munched clutches for fun.....hopefully someone lile AP will sell then a diesel like clutch to get the job done for sure

[chernaudi]

Read post #53 here: http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...ight=Dome+S102

The Dome S102 and the Elipson LMP1 coupe have wheelbases similar to the Audi R10 and Peugeot 908. Even the Porsche RS Spyder has a 2900mm/114.1 inch wheelbase. This is probably due to the ACO's overhang/car legnth rules. The long wheelbase basically creates an artifical long tail.

[jhansen]

I hope they have their transmission issues sorted this time around.

[prototype]

I hope they show well, but a part of me thinks these guys may break something in practice and not even make the start of the race.

[JAG]

You would hope they've had enough time to sort basic, 3 year old, issue's.

There's no point running if they don't anticipate being midely competitive with other privateers, as diesel technology has already been proven.

[isynge]

I was struck in the DSC report that Dawson's got a second chassis on the way.

Whether this ends up being a spare, a development machine, or a second race car, the one thing it does indicate is the level of seriousness of this effort.

Sebring will be a really tough place to start - but kudos to them for giving it a go - and the last diesel to debut in that part of Florida didn't end up doing too badly...

[prototype]

[QUOTE=isynge]I was struck in the DSC report that Dawson's got a second chassis on the way.

Whether this ends up being a spare, a development machine, or a second race car, the one thing it does indicate is the level of seriousness of this effort.[QUOTE]

I took something totally different from that article. I took the chassis on the way to be a new an upgraded "replacement chassis" for the current Radical.

[isynge]

Originally Posted by prototype

I took something totally different from that article. I took the chassis on the way to be a new an upgraded "replacement chassis" for the current Radical.

More extensive report on DSC seems to show there'll be one car based in the US running ALMS events, and one in the UK doing development and running in the LMS when possible.

So - pretty serious effort indeed.

[knighty]

I must say, hats off to Ian for pulling this deal off, looks like D1 and this eco homes mob are a very serious effort......a 3 year deal with 2 cars is quite serious indeed.

interesting Ian quotes the engine with 610bhp and 1100Nm, which is exactly what it had in the CAT days of 2005, he also mentions the benefit of using a production based engine, but I'm sure he realises those openings are only for the GT1 originated V12 aston, LS7 and the Ferrari V12, I dont know of any other openings for production based engines....or am I wrong?

the V10 VW 5.0 diesel is only a 2 valve per cylinder motor, so if the ACO like the sound of the ECO project I think they should create a clause for Ians team to open up the restrictors a tad, as 610 bhp just will not compete with the 650bhp Judds, 680bhp Astons, and 740bhp diesels form Audi and Pug.

[isynge]

Originally Posted by knighty

I must say, hats off to Ian for pulling this deal off, looks like D1 and this eco homes mob are a very serious effort......a 3 year deal with 2 cars is quite serious indeed.

interesting Ian quotes the engine with 610bhp and 1100Nm, which is exactly what it had in the CAT days of 2005, he also mentions the benefit of using a production based engine, but I'm sure he realises those openings are only for the GT1 originated V12 aston, LS7 and the Ferrari V12, I dont know of any other openings for production based engines....or am I wrong?

the V10 VW 5.0 diesel is only a 2 valve per cylinder motor, so if the ACO like the sound of the ECO project I think they should create a clause for Ians team to open up the restrictors a tad, as 610 bhp just will not compete with the 650bhp Judds, 680bhp Astons, and 740bhp diesels form Audi and Pug.

One of my immediate thoughts revolved around whether the Touareg based engine was a "production based" one and thus qualified for the bigger restrictor. As it's not an avowed VW product I wondered if it would get through on this level, then my reading of the 2008 tech regs seemed to rule it out, as Knighty says, because it's not a GT1 derived engine.

I can see logic in encouraging people to use stock blocks but really not sure if it's offered right now.

[Hammerdown]

Originally Posted by knighty

610 bhp just will not compete with the 650bhp Judds, 680bhp Astons, and 740bhp diesels form Audi and Pug.

Although the torque should be enough to see the petrols off in a straight line, but then again the quoted target weight was rather high, so maybe not. Will be an interesting one to watch and good luck to 'em.

[ascarracinguk]

interesting. im not sure on the paint job though, it looks like hes being sponsored by gay pride!....and im sure i can think of some sexual inuendo about there being a rainbow on thepointy thing at teh front LOL

[Justin Moran]

Im sure the rainbow design will go down well with the ladies in comfortable shoes!

Aside from the paint job, nice looking car but where are the rear brake ducts? I presume they are in the sides now?

[templer]

I think the pictures shows only a painted hull for livery presentation. The lamps are not mounted, I can see only one opening for the engine intake with no restrictor ( LMP1 have all two), there are no inlets for the turbos ( scoops, naca-ducts or something else) and I can't see any working on the larger coolers necessary for the diesel engine.
This is only a standard LMP2-hull.

[gttouring]

well if anything this sounds like a spaceship if it is on the same Lola CAT-Tractor motor this is gonna be cool