do we need a grand prix in the uk

[james tucker]

do we need the grand prix?
who benefits?

[ss_collins]

the sport - us

[jase]

James, what with all the local infrastructure for the meeting, like F1 of not, it is possibly the largest race in the UK. What do you propose should replace it?

CART, an imported American racing series?? At least F1 is seen as a European sport.

[SALEEN S7R]

I agree Jason. But the F1 grand prix isnt the only major motor racing event we get. FIA GT is a huge event, as is the DTM, World Superbikes and Moto GP. Next year we will have the LMT (Le Mans tournament) which will have the best sportscar teams from around the world, almost all of whom will race at Le Mans, some of them in with a very good chance at winning overall. Id also say that CART is a World Series now rather than just a American one. Out of 18 rounds the series goes outside of the USA 8 times. The CWS (Champ car world series) also visits 6 differnt countries, and is slowly visting more and more countries.

As I say though, it is important to have a F1 grand prix in Britan.

[Slowcoach]

I think an important point to remember is that it's important for the economy aswell as the fans - i.e. why would many of the top teams base themselves in the U.K. if there was no GP here it could make sense for them to be nearer to their engine suppliers for example - I know the UK has a vast wealth of knowledge and expertise but it's far easier to move people about these days, teams won't want to be based in a country when all the travel will be overseas....might Mercedes or BMW be suggesting to their teams to relocate.....so the answer to your question is YES !

[darcym]

What has this to do with national or club racing ?

[Bob Pearson]

Once you get outside Sil;verstone, I can't see that the GP has much to do with Club or National racing at all.

[Tainan]

Except that for many people it is the first race they attend, and some of them (albeit only a few) will come back to watch / participate in club racing.

[james tucker]

well I started....and ask the question ....GP started in england as club racing, it was not until it was organised by
what was then a new club called the FIA, did the series and the FIA go and give licences to circuits in Europe and then the sell appointed FIA then went out to the rest of the world....instead of bankrupting msp because so much money has got to be spent, why not let it go until the work has
been done. It is not the job for goverment to finance msp
and if the fat cats all put their hands in their pockets instead of takeing all the time, possibly marchals and joe public would be enjoying proper stands, with proper food and tea not the **** thats served up everywhere.
CHANGE HAS TO START AT THE TOP AS WELL AS THE BOTTOM!!!!
spotingly
james

[redshoes]

Originally posted by SALEEN S7R
But the F1 grand prix isnt the only major motor racing event we get. FIA GT is a huge event, as is the DTM,

You must be joking. FIA GT is tiny in comparision to BGP. Donington was only busy due to thousands of free tickets handed out. Same story with the DTM. Why else do you think they are running a buy one get one free offer on ticket.

[darcym]

so why is this post in the Club racing forum again ???

[james tucker]

good evening..darcym
the first GP was a national event..It was not until the Fia
a self appointed body spread its wings into europe and the rest of the world and over 35 years got all powerful, that your national sport (Msp) is indirectly controlled by two men.
every scutineer/marchal/driver/infact everyone has to pay, in any country their national Msa licence money and that includes cicuits...
That means when circuits are sold, you bet this affects your national sport, as in France where Paul Richard was bourght, it was taken out of reach of national sport.The question is 'does this Nation need F1' and the answer is in debate,if it is not debatable and if it is not questioned our circuit could become building sites or thyme parks...
spotingly
james

[Richy_Rich]

mmmmmmmmmmm, thyme parks.

[Rob29]

Actually James,the first Silverstone GP was an International event organized by the RAC.The FIA is and was then in 1948,the international body that controlled the sport-a sucessor to the ACIAR which dated from pre WW1.The present situation dated from when Bernie won control in 1982.I would love to see a return to the situation whereby the FIA gave a date to any circuit that asked for one and it was up to the local organizer/promoter to raise the money to attract competitors.
Back to the original question,I guess racing would suvive here as it has in Holland,Belgium,Argentina,South Africa,Portugal,Sweden & Mexico if we decide to opt out of Bernies circus.

[neilwaynesmith]

With all due respect, that's a bit of a daft question.

Of course we do. Britain is Probably the worlds largest motorsport supplier. The majority of F1 teams are based here, sourcing materials manufactured here, hell, the sport is even run by British people (although I have to admit you wouldn't know it from their constant whining).

It's not just about F1. The British Grand Prix creates a cascade effect in terms of technology, drivers and public awareness. How many club racers now have access to datalogging and other technologies that were developed in the UK for F1?

How many drivers come to Britain to learn their trade because the UK is still the nexus of F1?

How much money and employment does F1 and it's pyramid of suppliers, not to mention the whole British motorsport industry generate for the good of the UK's economy?

Despite my personal feelings that F1 is mainly as exciting as knitting, I firmly believe that we need and deserve F1 in this country to maintain our prominence in one of the few areas we have left.

[james tucker]

Hi Neil
thats not in question that we employ and basically supply F1 with everything you can mention,the question was 'do we need a grand prix' no the local residents need the noise,etc

[neilwaynesmith]

I still maintain that we need a Grand Prix for all of the cascade reasons mentioned. F1 is a chance for Britain to showcase it's motorsport abilities.

As for the locals, some of them do very well out of the Grand Prix, and other major Silverstone events.

[Bob Pearson]

The only cascade effect I as a mere clubbie notice is that when we are in Silverstone garages it has a new coat of prison grey paint each year.

[james tucker]

yes but the subjecy does not seem to be as inportant as the new v8 series of andy's with 111conversations and 2112 hits!!!!

[EvilPumpkin]

I would say that the GP is needed.

Ireland has a great history and tradition of motor racing but in order to keep our main circuit alive, it's been necessary to try to attract high profile UK events over here. Not that I have a problem with that - both the BTCC and the BSB have been very enjoyable events - but it goes to show that without bigger headline events, you soon find yourself in trouble trying to keep the club classes running. The inclusion of the BTCC and BSB into the Irish calendar has raised the profile of Irish motorsport and started to bring better crowds and sponsorship to the circuit. And once they've been to the circuit and seen what it has to offer in terms of a good day out, some of them actually come back!

Obviously the UK hosts other very high profile motorsport events and has a lot of circuits to choose from, but the fact of the matter is that the GP is the one event that brings the sport to the "general" public outside the realms of motorsport fans. Much in the same way that Wimbledon brings Tennis to those who would not normally watch it.

TV, press and public coverage attracts and keeps sponsors. Sponsors keep the circuits alive and keep the costs lower for the club classes and the grass roots racing that we all love.

I don't think British motorsport would die if there was no GP, but I do think you'd find that over time, sponsors would become more scarce, crowd numbers would taper off and entry fees for club racing would increase.

Every year, the British GP reminds people that they have vibrant and exciting motorsport available to them at all levels, all over the country. You can't put a price on that.

[Bob Pearson]

Good Morning Evil One,
It's good to see you back.
However I'm not sure that I agree with you here, although a lot of this subject is speculation as the GP has been here so long that there is nothing to compare with. I guess if it ended tomorrow, if there was any effect on us masses it would be so far delayed that we wouldn't know what to attribute it to.
But, I have always had the impression that most of the people who attend a GP would never go to a club or national event and so an important link in the possible cascade theory is broken. There was a time, and it may still be the case where Silverstone hired the circuit to certain clubs at reduced rates, it could be argued that it was because they could afford it due to the presence of the GP. However, the entry fees paid by the drivers to compete in those particular meetings were the same as at any other meeting. The cascade effect certainly didn't make it down as far as the clubbie in that case.
In my mind any link between the GP and a club meeting at Snetterton is so thin as to be barely tangible.

[EvilPumpkin]

Hi Bob - thanks

As you said, it's hard to see a link. I'm basing my assessment on Ireland where Motorsport has always been a very big part of our lives, but, with the exception of rallying, is disappearing into obscurity. The situation has started to improve with the introduction of bigger classes. A case in point would be the BSB - the crowds in attendance last weekend were estimated to be slightly in excess of 25,000. Now that doesn't sound like a lot compared to most UK circuits - but believe me, for Ireland, that is a huge crowd and I would be willing to lay a reasonable bet that it's the most people Mondello Park has seen at the same time in the last 20 years.

Now why would the British Superbikes get that many people when we have bike meetings at Mondello at least once a month and don't even get 1% of that figure normally? It can't be the racing, which is superb. It may be the advertising to a certain extent, but there wasn't a blanket campaign for the BSB. So why? The great god television. People have seen the BSB. They know it's excellent racing. Therefore they're willing to pay money to come see it when it's within reach.

Now I know from talking to some of the spectators that they will now definitely be making the effort to come up to some clubbie bike events at the circuit. Before the BSB came, they had never been to Mondello and were not aware that there was a thriving bike racing community in Ireland. But now they are.

The circuit has new sponsors this year. Now I can only speculate, but I would think a large part of their selling points would be the amount of TV coverage they were going to get - it's only natural that it would. I don't think that the likes of Honda and Dunlop would be quite so enthusiastic about sponsoring corners if they didn't know for a fact they were going to be shown live on Sky Sports!

I'm sure you're right about the majority of GP attenders. They do a GP once a year and that's their live motorsport. But they bring with them their friends, their spouses, their children. And introduce them to motorsport. If only 1 in 50 of those people takes a further interest and starts going to other live sessions around the country, that's another 5000 people who will pay to see things that are NOT the GP and keep the wheels turning.

As I said before, I don't think there would be an immediate knock on effect - I think it would be a gradual decline over a number of years - but I do think it would have an adverse effect on British motorsport if the GP was lost.

[Craig]

Originally posted by darcym
so why is this post in the Club racing forum again ???

I think that the idea of the thread is to question what the effect of the British GP being cancelled would have on the national level and club series in the UK. If that is correct then this is a very interesting question and it should remain in this forum.

[james tucker]

Craig, full marks. To pass the exam you have to read the question. who benefits? 5 thousand peole at £10 a head will not keep british club sport running. but the chance to race on the GP circuit may keep club racers interested. Yes marchalls are reducing in numbers and even the FIA have suggested useing camera's and quick response vehicles. I have wandered.
sportingly
james

[R59]

When you look at it, cold and hard, yes, we DO need the GP here.
It is the pinnacle of the racing calendar, it acts as a magnet to the creme de la creme of motorsport, some of whom will filter into national and club motorsport. What the GP needs is more meaningful support races, including races from the ladder formulae which include national championships.

As has been pointed out, time and time again, F1 is bigger than any one man, and that includes Bernie. If he tried to take the British GP away, I can see it being a further nail in the F1 coffin, and more fuel to the GPWC fire which is pretty well roaring, and 2008 is getting ever closer. I agree with James, the state of the circuits and the facilites for the viewer are absolutely c**p, and the so called £40M of work at Silverstone won't benefit you or I, but the corporate guests, Bernie, and his kronies.

Rob.