Rules Time to scrap the safety car? - Page 3

JeremySmith · 24 Sep 2009, 00:24 (Ref:2547062)

Anyone that votes for the safety car to be scraped is talking out of their bottom....

djb · 24 Sep 2009, 06:20 (Ref:2547130)

Originally Posted by VIVA GT
Surely it's a known fact that if a car is going to go off at a cartain place due to over-ambitious driving, there's every chance that another one will do exactly the same thing and follow it in?

anyone else remember a CART race back in the mid or late 90s, a road circuit I believe. One guy went off, marshalls were starting to get ready to get teh driver out (help, he wasnt hurt) then suddenly another car , distracted probably, spins towards the other car. The first driver, facing the oncoming car, sees it coming, covers his head with his hands and ducks, 2nd car comes right in, launches off the nose of the 1st, plops up onto the first car, sitting right on top of the roll bar....damn good thing the angles were thought out properly with nose and bar, as 1st driver wasnt hurt at all and damn good thing some poor marshal didnt lose his or her legs in it all....

so yup, this does happen.

Piglet · 24 Sep 2009, 07:29 (Ref:2547157)

We had two incidents at the same meeting at Brands last year where as drivers were exiting stricken cars they were hit by other vehicles.

Presumably in la la land where drivers don't crash or breakdown at all it's a bit easier....however here in the real world the safety car really is a tool that is used for safety

jab · 24 Sep 2009, 10:34 (Ref:2547254)

Quote:

Originally Posted by djb

anyone else remember a CART race back in the mid or late 90s, a road circuit I believe. One guy went off, marshalls were starting to get ready to get teh driver out (help, he wasnt hurt) then suddenly another car , distracted probably, spins towards the other car. The first driver, facing the oncoming car, sees it coming, covers his head with his hands and ducks, 2nd car comes right in, launches off the nose of the 1st, plops up onto the first car, sitting right on top of the roll bar....damn good thing the angles were thought out properly with nose and bar, as 1st driver wasnt hurt at all and damn good thing some poor marshal didnt lose his or her legs in it all....

That was the Bryan Herta/Alex Barron incident. Herta had spun and Barron joined him

mini1400 · 24 Sep 2009, 10:47 (Ref:2547259)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jab

That was the Bryan Herta/Alex Barron incident. Herta had spun and Barron joined him

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRXymgWiRcY

djb · 28 Sep 2009, 05:19 (Ref:2549509)

the wonders of Youtube...thanks...hadnt seen that since seeing the race live....just as scary seeing it again--the corner workers were so bloody lucky to have gotten out of the way...

Tal Aras · 29 Sep 2009, 20:24 (Ref:2550773)

As one of those soft squishy things wearing orange I can't imagine doing the job without the safety car. Live snatching is fine if there is enough space and it's off the track but I'd hate to deal with debris and oil pon the track with cars whizzing past me

ensign14 · 27 Jun 2010, 14:28 (Ref:2718601)

So, the show car today was deployed so that Sebastian Vettel had the race almost literally handed to him on a plate. Vettel ended up with a free pit stop. Those from 2nd to 4th were trapped; those from 5th downwards, the slower cars, ended up in front of them and shielded Vettel from them.

It is an abomination.

dsg · 27 Jun 2010, 14:49 (Ref:2718616)

Sometimes it helps the leader, more often than not it doesn't. Not ideal but every system has strengths and weaknesses. What's the alternative that allows a gap in traffic to attend to an incident.

ensign14 · 27 Jun 2010, 14:51 (Ref:2718617)

Red flag. If it's that dangerous.

**Adam43** · 27 Jun 2010, 14:51 (Ref:2718618)

It was not deployed "so that" Vet gained an advantage. The reason it was deployed was to clear up the mess of the Vet/Kovi accident. You have highlighted a consequence not a reason.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 27 Jun 2010, 14:53 (Ref:2718621)

They've been using the safety car in IndyCar in all its variuos guises for years without any problem. The trouble with the safety in F1 isn't the safety car per se, it's the safety car start line; before its introduction there never was a problem.

ensign14 · 27 Jun 2010, 15:09 (Ref:2718632)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam43

It was not deployed "so that" Vet gained an advantage. The reason it was deployed was to clear up the mess of the Vet/Kovi accident. You have highlighted a consequence not a reason.

Or have I?

**Adam43** · 27 Jun 2010, 15:11 (Ref:2718635)

Well if you meant it you are accusing the stewards of race fixing. I suppose HHF was the driver representative.

That is a completely different discussion from "time to scrap the SC", which we wouldn't have a prayer of discussing sensibly.

ensign14 · 27 Jun 2010, 15:15 (Ref:2718641)

Doubt if HHF has a say in when to deploy it, but it seemed curious it was sent out at about the only time it could get between the top two.

Pingguest · 27 Jun 2010, 15:19 (Ref:2718646)

Today's European Grand Prix perfectly showed why Formula 1 should get rid of the Safety Car. The race was an unfair lottery and spoiled the racing. There are two alternatives I can think of: a lap time window or a speed limit. During a neutralisation drivers shouldn't be allowed to change tyres, except for changing weather* and punctured tyres.

* It would be even fairer to have all-weather tyres and ban tyre changes at once.

**Adam43** · 27 Jun 2010, 15:20 (Ref:2718648)

That is known as coincidence.

Although I suppose it happened at Le Mans too with the Audis. All sport is rife with cheating officials.

Or maybe, it was unlucky where the SC came out and Hamilton played his part too?

ensign14 · 27 Jun 2010, 15:47 (Ref:2718661)

Very coincidental.

**Adam43** · 27 Jun 2010, 15:51 (Ref:2718667)

So simple it hurts.

p261brm · 27 Jun 2010, 17:45 (Ref:2718769)

Get Webber to drive it, job done.

**Asp** · 27 Jun 2010, 18:12 (Ref:2718792)

Sometimes, the leader will benefit greatly from a SC (such as today when it comes out between cars).
Sometimes, the leader will suffer just as much when their hard fought gap is reduced to nothing.
Sometimes, it's the 7th place man who benefits most.

Sometimes, Driver A is in the lead when he benefits from a SC, sometimes, Driver A is in the lead when he suffers.
Sometimes, Driver B is in the lead and suffers, next time, he's in P7 and benefits hugely.

It all balances out eventually. And it's racing. If you could predict everything, it would be pretty boring.

**Adam43** · 27 Jun 2010, 18:36 (Ref:2718805)

Asp, stop it with your reason.

JimW · 27 Jun 2010, 18:43 (Ref:2718810)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam43

It was not deployed "so that" Vet gained an advantage. The reason it was deployed was to clear up the mess of the Vet/Kovi accident. You have highlighted a consequence not a reason.

Webber/Kovalainen surely?

Jim

**Adam43** · 27 Jun 2010, 18:45 (Ref:2718813)

Ooops. Yep

strider · 27 Jun 2010, 22:43 (Ref:2718986)

There was a time when the idea was to get all the cars slowed down to a safe speed before the Safety Car was sent out and then it could pick the leader quite easily.

Not sure what's changed in the Regulations, but now there seems to be a race to get into the pits before it's deployed. I think I preferred the old system.

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