[Team] US F1

[Senninha24]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

So... what will happen with all of those unsold toasters?

That's what I'm really troubled by!

[bjohnsonsmith]

Bernie will get his hands on them and sell them off as F1 memorabilia, at some exorbitant price.

[Mekola]

I don't know if I posted that before, but José MarÃ*a López has been released from his USF1 contract, as announced on local TV last Monday.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Did Ken Anderson make any money from the failed Falcon project?

[fieldodreams79]

glad i never held my breath...

[csirl]

Originally Posted by tblincoe
Bingo.

I liken it to the situation which those who follow American football and the NFL will understand. The Washington Redskins hired Jim Zorn to be an offensive coordinator, which was a stretch based on his past experience. When they couldn't find a head coach, they put Zorn in the position and he failed miserably. The fault wasn't Zorn's, it was the fault of the process which put him in the position he wasn't supposed to be in.

Originally Posted by fourWheelDrift

Up to a point I agree but I don't see how this argument can absolve USF1 of responsibility. The analogy is not complete since the principles of USF1 were entirely free to choose to form a team and enter or not, they chose to go ahead were granted an entry and failed. I suspect that Zorn had little choice.

The FIA have their share of the responsibility but USF1 also have theirs, if they were not able to deliver they should not have entered.

One thing that is very comparable between the Redskins and F1 is that both are run by an arrogant dictator who thinks he knows it all.

Zorn's situation is also comparable. The Redskins and offered him more money that he could refuse to take the Redskins job. It was clear to most people in the sport that it would end in failure, but because of the potential rewards, it was worth the risk. Also remember that Zorn originally took the coordinators job for the same reasons.

Compare with USF1 - F1 offers them a place on the grid, which is (or should be) priceless. The offer was too good to refuse, so even though they might have known that there was a high chance of failure, the risk was worth taking because of the potential rewards.

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

So... what will happen with all of those unsold toasters?

I bought them all so I could use the material for a personal project. "The World's Biggest Toaster"

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by andy_b

Spare a thought for the guys who moved their family, lock, stock and barrel to NC after being told a fantasty and are now effectively out of a job...

might include one of 'us' on here.

That was my first reaction to Andy. I feel terrible for these guys.

I still think, no know, that there is excellent engineering in this county that is more than capable of creating a competitive car... under the right management anyway.

[TWK]

Originally Posted by csirl

One thing that is very comparable between the Redskins and F1 is that both are run by an arrogant dictator who thinks he knows it all.

Zorn's situation is also comparable. The Redskins and offered him more money that he could refuse to take the Redskins job. It was clear to most people in the sport that it would end in failure, but because of the potential rewards, it was worth the risk. Also remember that Zorn originally took the coordinators job for the same reasons.

Compare with USF1 - F1 offers them a place on the grid, which is (or should be) priceless. The offer was too good to refuse, so even though they might have known that there was a high chance of failure, the risk was worth taking because of the potential rewards.

Two problems with that, the way I understand you:

1. Anderson and Windsor do NOT work for an "arrogant dictator" (Bernie has absolutely nothing to do with the problems at USF1). On the contrary, USF1 "worked for" a hands-off principal who has no knowledge of racing, car building, or manufacturing in general. Unfortunately that principal also didn't know how to find and hire a good on-site manager, and didn't exercize any on-premises follow-up, either in person or with a knowledgeable intermediary.

2. Zorn may have failed as the Redskin's coach, but it's not clear he was a lousy manager with good - even excellent - personnel. USF1 has/had a very well qualified and capable staff, Anderson simply interfered with and blocked them at every turn. In this parable, that's not something you can say about the team the 'Skins put on the field. I doubt Lombardi could win with that collection of players. If you think a new coach will turn that bunch into a winner any time soon, I think you're going to be very, very disappointed.

[tblincoe]

Originally Posted by TWK

Two problems with that, the way I understand you:

1. Anderson and Windsor do NOT work for an "arrogant dictator" (Bernie has absolutely nothing to do with the problems at USF1). On the contrary, USF1 "worked for" a hands-off principal who has no knowledge of racing, car building, or manufacturing in general. Unfortunately that principal also didn't know how to find and hire a good on-site manager, and didn't exercize any on-premises follow-up, either in person or with a knowledgeable intermediary.

2. Zorn may have failed as the Redskin's coach, but it's not clear he was a lousy manager with good - even excellent - personnel. USF1 has/had a very well qualified and capable staff, Anderson simply interfered with and blocked them at every turn. In this parable, that's not something you can say about the team the 'Skins put on the field. I doubt Lombardi could win with that collection of players. If you think a new coach will turn that bunch into a winner any time soon, I think you're going to be very, very disappointed.

Hey Tom, great to 'see' you again after a long hiatus - albeit on a different board! Definitely all good points and from your information regarding Anderson's role, its just a shame how a few people can squander the efforts of so many. Sadly, its not a story that hasn't repeated itself in many different contexts over the course of human history.

My primary interest in the USF1 issue is on the FIA's selection of the team in the first place, and what the FIA does in the future now that the USF1 operation is in the process of dissolution (despite Anderson's claims to the contrary). It's the whole reason why I drew up the analogy between Zorn and USF1 in the first place - to highlight the importance of the decisions that got these folks to even be on the playing field, so to speak.

As always, I value your opinion on the matter (or even Murphy's ): Given what the FIA knew at the time the team was given the entry, what it knew since then via inspection, etc., and what we all know now - should USF1 have been given the entry in the first place? At what point did the team go from being on-target for a debut to not being able to attempt mandatory impact testing? Should Stefan GP now receive the vacant grid position? Does it even matter at this point?

[csirl]

1. Anderson and Windsor do NOT work for an "arrogant dictator" (Bernie has absolutely nothing to do with the problems at USF1).

C'mon, if fairness I said F1 not USF1 was run by an arrogant dictator.

2. Zorn may have failed as the Redskin's coach, but it's not clear he was a lousy manager with good - even excellent - personnel. USF1 has/had a very well qualified and capable staff, Anderson simply interfered with and blocked them at every turn. In this parable, that's not something you can say about the team the 'Skins put on the field. I doubt Lombardi could win with that collection of players. If you think a new coach will turn that bunch into a winner any time soon, I think you're going to be very, very disappointed.

I dont disagree with you. Zorn may have worked out with a different team in different circumstances. The point I'm making is that, in spite of everyone knowing that it would probably fail, Zorn still took the job because he got an offer he couldnt refuse. Im hindsight (which is a wonderful thing) USF1 did not have the ability to field a team in F1 and the management may well have known this at the time they accepted an entry.

[old man]

Surely the reason the they were given the entry in the first place is that F1 would benefit from an American team, just that.

The surprising thing is that Peter Windsor seems to have underestimated the magnitude of the task, can't comment about the rest of the team but he for one should have known what was involved in designing, building and running a competitive F1 car. How they fooled so many people for so long is then difficult to understand.

F1 still needs American involvement and perhaps a driver can emerge that has the ability to compete at the top level just to get interest restored.

[tblincoe]

Originally Posted by csirl

I dont disagree with you. Zorn may have worked out with a different team in different circumstances. The point I'm making is that, in spite of everyone knowing that it would probably fail, Zorn still took the job because he got an offer he couldnt refuse. Im hindsight (which is a wonderful thing) USF1 did not have the ability to field a team in F1 and the management may well have known this at the time they accepted an entry.

I'm completely comfortable with the contention that Zorn had a major effect on the performance of the 'Skins this year - and everyone else in Washington will tell you the same thing. The talent wasn't there, yes, but that doesn't mean Zorn didn't do less with the talent he did have than the average coach would have. Preseason was a joke, he was a pacifist and a pushover to the player's demands, his game-planning was flawed, and even his important in-game decisions were absolutely dreadful. There was a noticeable difference in the performance of the offense, and the team as a whole, when the play calling was taken out of his hands.

Oh wait, this is the F1 board on Ten-Tenths - sorry for derailing the thread with the analogy!

[Senninha24]

Originally Posted by old man

Surely the reason the they were given the entry in the first place is that F1 would benefit from an American team, just that.

The surprising thing is that Peter Windsor seems to have underestimated the magnitude of the task, can't comment about the rest of the team but he for one should have known what was involved in designing, building and running a competitive F1 car. How they fooled so many people for so long is then difficult to understand.

F1 still needs American involvement and perhaps a driver can emerge that has the ability to compete at the top level just to get interest restored.

Agreed with you there. I think this was kind of an over the top project to increase American involvement. We need the GP to return and a solid driver and I think that will do much more for America-F1 relations than rushing in an American based team that will struggle at the back and probably make headlines for the wrong reasons as it has been doing now.

[DanShenise]

"Sorry for derailing the thread with the analogy!" Not a problem, just in the future try to make them less relevant. Perhaps something from the animal kingdom, or even further out there, like cricket! This is the internet afterall and we can't have people making sense now. Its a damn shame when people start speaking sense on internet forums, especially auto sport related forums.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by DanShenise

"Sorry for derailing the thread with the analogy!" Not a problem, just in the future try to make them less relevant. Perhaps something from the animal kingdom, or even further out there, like cricket! This is the internet afterall and we can't have people making sense now. Its a damn shame when people start speaking sense on internet forums, especially auto sport related forums.

Do you like curry?

Back to the thread; did Ken Anderson make any money during his tenure at USF1?

[DanShenise]

Yup. When my family moved into our current apartment, there were 7 Indian families living in our "stairwell" of 12 apartments. Coming home from work was awesome, nothing like Indian housewives staying home all day cooking. The smells were great. Too bad the economy tanked and they all went back home when the software jobs dried up.

That leg before wicket thing is just strange though, as are games that go on for days..............

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by DanShenise

Yup. When my family moved into our current apartment, there were 7 Indian families living in our "stairwell" of 12 apartments. Coming home from work was awesome, nothing like Indian housewives staying home all day cooking. The smells were great. Too bad the economy tanked and they all went back home when the software jobs dried up.

That leg before wicket thing is just strange though, as are games that go on for days..............

What's your favorite curry? I personally like Chicken Ceylon; hot and spicey but with coconut. The trouble with the LBW rule is it has been changed around too often but these days it seems to work quite well, since the last rule change. Apart from that do you think Ken Anderson made any money from his tenure at USF1?

[tblincoe]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Apart from that do you think Ken Anderson made any money from his tenure at USF1?

A very, very interesting question...

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by tblincoe

A very, very interesting question...

And did he make any money at Falcon?

[Alan Raine]

Originally Posted by DanShenise

Perhaps something from the animal kingdom, or even further out there, like cricket!

Being a Brit, I often wonder what American Football is all about

We also have Simon Gillett, who organised a similar cock up at Donington and who has rumoured to have made 250k out it. Another big F1 plan that's gone down the toilet.

At least we are left with an Historic asset that can be repaired.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Alan Raine

Being a Brit, I often wonder what American Football is all about

We also have Simon Gillett, who organised a similar cock up at Donington and who has rumoured to have made 250k out it. Another big F1 plan that's gone down the toilet.

At least we are left with an Historic asset that can be repaired.

American Football is like complex Rugby League. As for Donnington it's not going to be cheap to fix it.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by Alan Raine

Being a Brit, I often wonder what American Football is all about

You don't have to be a Brit to wonder about it !! Specially when one knows what the real football (ball in the foot) is all about

[p-matt]

This is interesting - Autosport have an article on Jose Maria Lopez's manager mouthing off about USF1, but the interesting point is that it suggests that Milos Pavlovic would have been his teammate: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81826

I was sure Pavlovic was involved with Stefan?!

[duke_toaster]

I would have thought that, bearing in mind the nationality issues - it's not as if Stefan would take him for his speed, either.