New teams?

[jiminee]

Well it looks like a number of the privateer teams are in trouble (Jordan, Minardi etc) so other than allowing the big 4 (Ferrari Williams McLaren and Renault) 3 or 4 cars each is there a possiblitly of a new team or 2 coming from somewhere else?
VW arent interested so that pretty much leaves GM as the only manufacturer not currently involved and I doubt they are interested, so is there any possiblity of seeing anybody new?
Also if Honda, Ford and Toyota arent successful soon how long will they hang around?
Is this just a periodic lull in grid sizes or something more permanent?
Interested in other peoples opinions.
Jiminee

[Armco Bender]

Very unlikely to ever see any new teams enter F1 again.Odds are there will be some sort of merger between F1 and CART in the future to increase the gene pool and the racing quality.

[ParkLife]

No offence to the CART teams but they are nowhere near the calibre of Formula 1 teams right now. The F1 teams would destroy them!

[Armco Bender]

Not if all teams run a standard engine and one make chassis.

[ParkLife]

Standard engine and one make chassis? What would be the point of that?

I don't really follow F1 to see driver V driver any more. It's to see team V team.

Standard ECU's are one thing, Standard cars are something completely different. IMO it's the manufacturers that are causing the problem. They should only be allowed to supply engines IMO. All teams should do the cars completely independantly and shouldn't be allowed to take Manufacturer money either.

[BootsOntheSide]

Private teams can't hope to rival major manufacturers in an open championship. Mercedes adn BMW now own large chunks of their teams, and once Frank and Ron retire will probably take total control.

As for getting the manufacturers out, I'm nto sure how feasible that is. Toyota, Renault, Jaguar and even Ferrari would all be gone, making for thin grids untiol new tewams could enter, adn they'd be well behind even the likes of BAR until they can ge tused to the formula. Also, BMW and Mercedes would have to sell their shares, and surely that would have to be to new outside investors (Ron and Frank anre unlikely to have the money spare). EU laws would eb violated too. Sadly, I think we're stuck with F1 as it is now.

Fortunately for those of us who care mroe about the drivers, there is plenty of talent out there, and a lot of it is getting to the top. The exciting, flair-packed driving of Montoya coupled with the precision of Raikkonen could mean a bright, if corporate, future.

[Maxmil]

Originally posted by ParkLife
Standard engine and one make chassis? What would be the point of that?

It's affordable!

What F1 is in the process of demonstrating is that the barely controlled - by the FIA - pursuit of automotive technology via racing is sinply too expensive for all but a very few extremely well backed teams. Even that system is prone to periods when one team is able to dominate the group through a combination of factors. When this happens the audience which wants to see close racing and finishes starts to lose interest.

[z2252314]

BMW now own large chunks of their teams

Yeh? this is news to me.

Very unlikely to ever see any new teams enter F1 again.

I disagree. You have to remember that companies are going through some rough times at the moment. The economy is slow, and pouring billions into R&D for an F1 campaign is difficult at the moment. Wait a couple of years when the cycle changes and you'll see a couple more teams enter the show. It would also help if the manufacturers start getting a bit more of the TV money. I think at the moment all the teams combined only get about 50% of all the tv money

[racingdick]

if the drivers were willing to knock the odd milion off the salery then a lot of problems would be solved.. modern day drivers are getting too greedy!!!!
if they all followed irvines exmaple and willing to accept a pay drop then surely they all can.

[JohnSSC]

And EI's willingness to take a pay cut got him exactly where? As a % of the overall budget, the driver's salary would have minimal impact. I suspect at the privateer teams the sponsorship the driver brings most likely covers their salary.

The overall cost are astronomical and completely out of proportion. CART and F1 both race at Montreal. Lap times were about 8 seconds (average) faster for F1 - and yes, I know it is a different formula and each team is a constructor but a CART team's budget for the season is about $6 million. Ferrari, Williams and McLaren are all over $150 million. Even Minardi spends $50 million (or close to it). That is just insane.

[EERO]

What will happen is that the Major Manufacturers will withdraw one by one until we have one Manufacturer, probably Ferrari dominating a field of minnows who are struggling to survive. The Fromula will be nearly defunct and new rules will be written to control costs and promote the use of one or two engines. I believe that the tradition of race car manufacturers proving unique chassis is strong enough to persist into the next phase, but technology will have to be dialed back to promote the rise of new chassis manufacturers ala the '60's and '70's.

[Inigo Montoya]

Originally posted by Armco Bender
Not if all teams run a standard engine and one make chassis.

Then it wouldn't be F1, it would be closer to <yawn> CART or <eek> NASCAR. IF the day comes that all teams run the same engine and chassis, that will be the day I stop watching F1.

[GTV27]

New Teams would be more feasible if the rules allows current teams to sell spare/redundant chassis - this would provide a sizeable saving for the midfield teams and is only an extension of Ferarri selling their engine, gearbox and rear suspension to Sauber.

I don't think that we should blame major manufacturers for getting involved (and I certainly don't think they should be banned from owning teams).

[f1manoz]

I don't see any new teams until the rules are changed to allow the existence of smaller teams. The rules at the moment are specifically designed to increase manufactuer interest while slowly forcing out all the privateer teams who do not have manufacturer backing.

[Armco Bender]

Then it wouldn't be F1, it would be closer to <yawn> CART

Haven't you ever watched a CART race?,cars actually overtake each other,they have multiple leaders in a race,different guys win races,heck its nearly exciting.

F1,a red car leads,some others parade round behind it until the red cars contrive who will win,then the race stops.

[allen_overy]

GM is definitely a manufacturer left behind not to have entered F1 but as a manufacturer it will only enter F1 when it finds that F1 can boost its car sales. Since its current major market is in the States and is reasonably successful i do not see it entering F1 unless it wants to expand its market share in Europe where F1 is now staged mostly, and Asia possibly.

By virtue of F1's nature as a global advertising platform, companies will only invest in F1 if they find that it serves the market that it seeks to expand its market, whether as a sponsor/engine supplier. A recent example is Red Bull in which it would like to promote the US market leading to rumours of its desire of buying up a team. I would throw up a question? could anyone suggest companies that would like to expand its market share globally and with the resources to place on such a large-scale and long term marketing campaign?

As to the issue of manufacturers, this depends on their objectives and how they present their F1 campaigns. If they want to promote that their cars are reliable, they should focus on their F1 cars' reliability and shout loud about it. If they want to promote their cars' speed, they should focus on the engine's top speed, rpm, etc. There is only 1 champion in each formula and comapnies should thus shape their marketing strategies in order to reap the most benefits. Not being the first overall can still aid the company in their primary objective of entering F1: upping car sales.

[Asp]

There was a rumour at Indy that an all-American team was in the offing (maybe even for 03- well that was never going to happen), lead by Phil Hill and Dan Guerney.

Heard nothing since though!

[ParkLife]

And neither had Phil Hill at the time either!

[Inigo Montoya]

Originally posted by Armco Bender


Haven't you ever watched a CART race?,cars actually overtake each other,they have multiple leaders in a race,different guys win races,heck its nearly exciting.

F1,a red car leads,some others parade round behind it until the red cars contrive who will win,then the race stops.

Lots of passing yes, but "manufactured" excitement. Full course yellows - hahahahaha!!! Ovals?? Hahaha...

[woodbine]

Lots of passing yes, but "manufactured" excitement. Full course yellows - hahahahaha!!! Ovals?? Hahaha...

Full course yellow - thats when the safety car is out isn't it and we don't them in F1 do we?

I say let teams sell their cars to other teams. In years past, and other formulae, you would see people running privateer cars against the factory versions. Basically we need to do something to help the smaller teams out.

Manufacturer involvement is just about at its peak now, GM and VW are about the only major players not yet involved in F1. Industry analysts expect more car companies to merge in the next few years and if say Renault buy Honda are they going to want to fund 2 F1 teams?

[Inigo Montoya]

Yes we have them in F1, but if you're trying to say its the same thing, then I disagree strongly. Gees, even the boss of CART says its a "farm series" for F1.

In any case, a series with all the cars identical is b-o-r-i-n-g.

[JohnSSC]

From a technical standpoint I would agree, Inigo, but that is where the treat of comparing and contrasting driving styles comes in!

Personally I would have no problem watching a hard-fought FFord race or a hard-fought F1 race. Close competition is always entertaining.

[Inigo Montoya]

You guys have a point about it being interesting to see drivers in equal machinery - for sure. Being a mechanical engineer myself, I guess I am coming from the technical angle a little too much.

[golem]

Well, to cut back costs effectively, the FIA needs to base F1 in a single country, and all people involved with the teams have to declare their money through said countries accounting laws.

Until then, it's impossible to track stuff and no matter what tech regulation you right (short of componant sharing) you're gonna have people with stupid budgets courtesy of TV exposure. Very soon I believe it will be RIP F1, to be replaced by Formula Corporation. Yay. I can't wait.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Inigo Montoya

In any case, a series with all the cars identical is b-o-r-i-n-g.

I disagree that CART is boring, but then the idea of CART (a one make series) is not what F1 is about.

As an aside, most CART races see alot of overtaking, when they raced at Canada for the first time ever this year, it was proberbly the most boring CART race of the year, and incidently the only track they share with F1. To make F1 more exciting, i suggest that (for starters), we replace Indianapolis with Cleveland , that track always provides awesome racing.

Originally posted by Armco Bender

F1,a red car leads,some others parade round behind it until the red cars contrive who will win,then the race stops.

Thats how it is at the moment, but it won't last forever