NZV8's 2011/12

[Icarus_nz]

Originally Posted by Chappelli

In a lot of ways I don't disagree with you, but a quick check of the TRS website shows 5 local drivers and 15 international drivers. To me, that says the 'minimum' spend is 'too expensive'.
But, as you say, the interesting thing will be what that 'minimum' spend in V8ST is and I don;t think anyone can answer that until the season is under way.

I agree re TRS since it is a kids class and predominantly funded by daddys money. Given that on the whole GENUINE sponsors have been underwhemled 180 - 200k is too high.

ST appears to be grabbing commercial interest

That argument would say the GT3 field was more consistent and a better spectacle than the Utes and that's simply not the case.
There will be guys who are horribly out of their depth talent wise in V8ST, just as there are guys in NZV8's who're horribly out of their depth funding wise... the only difference is at least the guys in V8ST will have the money to make their cars look "shiny".

There is every reason to believe that NZST will cost similar or less than front running GT3.
At T1 there is only room for one 'flagship' class. Up to now it has been NZV8.
To run at the front it required a lot of different elements to be right and it was hard to assemble the right package - including personell.

I think the new NZV8 will prove to be too little too late.

All good points and tyres aside (feel free to update us on the actual cost of the Kuhmos) there's nothing on that list that appears to be different to what will happen when (and if) we see the new NZV8 roll out.

For the sake of being an argumentative so and so, I will point out that V8ST will have enduros, so while the cost per k is substantially cheaper than the current NZV8, the number of k's will be substantially higher.

On a side note, are their testing limits for either class? Surely that's go to be a clear cut way of keeping costs down-ish.

Hankooks will cost less than Dunlops on NZV8 and substantially less than GT3 Michelins.

I beieve testing is controlled by tyre availibility.

Enduro's bring a second driver with funds. I would imagine that the budget for enduros will be less than all 6 rounds. Sometimes it is easier to get less money so long as the profile and interest in the event is high.
Enduros also allow folks to put their toe in the water and learn as part of an established deal.

You are right tho - time will tell

[Chappelli]

Originally Posted by Icarus_nz

I agree re TRS since it is a kids class and predominantly funded by daddys money. Given that on the whole GENUINE sponsors have been underwhemled 180 - 200k is too high.

ST appears to be grabbing commercial interest

I think it's probably safe to say there's more of "Daddy's money" in V8ST than there is "commercial" money....

Originally Posted by Icarus_nz

There is every reason to believe that NZST will cost similar or less than front running GT3.
At T1 there is only room for one 'flagship' class. Up to now it has been NZV8.
To run at the front it required a lot of different elements to be right and it was hard to assemble the right package - including personell.

I guess there are some people on here who would argue that until the death of one of both V8ST becomes yet another "flagship" class. Further dividing the talent, money, public interest, media attention et al...

Originally Posted by Icarus_nz

I think the new NZV8 will prove to be too little too late.

Ask yourself, would V8ST be more concerned about Triple 8 being contracted to build the NZV8 COTF or by IMG being brought in to run and promote the series?

Originally Posted by Icarus_nz

Enduro's bring a second driver with funds. I would imagine that the budget for enduros will be less than all 6 rounds. Sometimes it is easier to get less money so long as the profile and interest in the event is high.
Enduros also allow folks to put their toe in the water and learn as part of an established deal.

So, when team #1 breaks out the Giz. You're still going to be happy with Mr/Mrs Toe-in-the-water?


QUOTE=Icarus_nz;3018381]You are right tho - time will tell[/QUOTE]
I think so... I just hope in 5 years time we can look back at all of this and say it was for the betterment of the sport..

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by smokin'joe

read through my views on the subject, and get your facts straight before dragging a non-argument down to your level. i fail to see the point of getting into a battle of wits with an un-armed man.

Aww, come on man, you shouldn't be so hard on yourself, I'm sure you are right up there with Hawking and Sagan

I shall re-phrase - when I say negative I mean generally not overly supportive, how's that? I wasn't saying that's wrong either, just commenting on different posters' stances from the outset.

Everyone has their reasons, be they valid or perceived or whatever...

[DX20VT]

Originally Posted by Chappelli

So, when team #1 breaks out the Giz. You're still going to be happy with Mr/Mrs Toe-in-the-water?

The enduro's will come down to who spends the most on paying for a good co-driver won't it?

Would be good to see the same rule as V8SC
where you can't team two series regulars together,
as that would basically mean you need a two car team to have a chance.
Talent and experience in the actual car will win over new good talent anyday.

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by Chappelli

Ask yourself, would V8ST be more concerned about Triple 8 being contracted to build the NZV8 COTF or by IMG being brought in to run and promote the series?

Whoa, where did that come from?

[Just Do It!]

Originally Posted by promax

so you're saying they had every right to take what was the NZV8 COT.. put a new sticker on it.. and claim it's something else?

Apparently, the V8 SuperTourer from the B-Pillar forward is largely V8 Supercar COTF DNA (Now I sound like Cromley!!)

[Just Do It!]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

Add to that the (alleged) mis-handling of the Parker Enzed account as primary sponsor, and the NZ Truth fiasco and you can see why some decided it was time to go do something else (take a look at the 30+ F5000 grid - you might just find some ex-NZV8 drivers there...)

Care to refresh a stale memory on these issues? Parker Enzed? NZ Truth?

[smokin'joe]

Originally Posted by Icarus_nz

Levels is a more complex situation.
The local community is fantastically supportive. The racing is always good.
However, there are genuine safety issues due to the speed of the cars and the (lack of) run-off areas

Those of us who have been around for a while know that this a club that has been to hell and back with the actions of 'citizens' complaining about noise an, expensive legal battles and draconian conditions. They don't have a large financial surplus and are heavily dependent on the income from the major meeting(s)

but it is also a club now wholly run by circle jerks who can't see the woods for the trees, who spend far too much money on **** poor financial descisions, and who also don't even suppurt their own successful members.............. what you reap, is what you sow.

[promax]

Originally Posted by Just Do It!

Apparently, the V8 SuperTourer from the B-Pillar forward is largely V8 Supercar COTF DNA (Now I sound like Cromley!!)

things look a bit different in Supercar-land

[Chappelli]

Originally Posted by on_to_it

Whoa, where did that come from?

Sorry I should elaborate. With regards to Icarus suggesting the the NZV8 COTF may be too little too late. I was suggesting that I don’t believe the new car (in either class) is in fact the issue.
The question is “Would V8ST be more concerned about Triple 8 being contracted to build the NZV8 COTF or by IMG being brought in to run and promote the series?”
I suspect the success of failure of either class won’t lie in who’s got the cheaper chassis or who’s the cheaper car to run (I’m sure we could argue all day long over which is which), I think the life or death of both classes sits in how they go after the public dollar and how they go after the commercial dollar.

[Just Do It!]

Originally Posted by smokin'joe

Negative to what??
-sock puppets coming on here spouting on about how great a series it is before a wheel had been turned? yip, got me on that

This is a seemingly high-risk statement. We hate to all be tarred with the same brush. Having attended numerous V8 Supercar events at at least 5 locations, F1 in Melbourne, and NZV8s at 3 different circuits, and looking at V8 SuperTourers with a level head, I'm prepared to say that they are on to a winner.

They are also first to market and it is better to be first than it is to be better. Being better is always harder than being first, but it looks like the V8 SuperTourers are not only first, but also better.

Talking to people at Hampton Downs today, tomorrow's test with 5 of the drivers will be interesting. Round One will be interesting. The series looks set to flourish.

FPR are obviously connected to the JMR operation - John driving at FPR (which means he has effectively crapped on SBR), Steven Richards driving at JMR and FPR, Campbell Little providing engineering wisdom. John should come "out of the box" firing.

Murph is involved via the Mark Cromie link as a driver.

A number of "new to the sport" sponsors are involved. I spoke with a couple today and they are almost besotted with enthusiasm to be involved with V8 Supercars' cousin.

For your benefit, smokin' joe, I have just checked my back passage, my facial features, and my skin type, and no evidence of your spoken of "sock puppet" exists.

I am impartial, but I am by no means blind. "Sock puppet" is a massive insult to many, and possibly many more than TMC could ever wish to attract. Just remember, for every two "sock puppets", you need one operator, unless you are dealing with one-armed-bandits.

[Jerico]

Originally Posted by promax

things look a bit different in Supercar-land

It's not that far away. You can see the similarities.

[smokin'joe]

Originally Posted by Jerico

You are not neutral! So what category do you fit in then???

i would claim almost neutrality. i wouldnt waste my time and money on going to a TMC promoted event, especially when i can watch paint dry and watch Teir 1 on TV at the same time............ all about where you position the TV !!!
i have no issue with the car V8ST car, but am concerned about how it came about especially when there was a heap of fanfare regarding the new NZv8 chassis with a common engine (albeit a Henry, at that stage).......... next thing their is a new series with that chassis but now fitted with a GM powerplant

either TMC/MSNZ c^$ked right up and offloaded the new car or certain parties who were sick of being caught with technical irregularities, stole the new car and took it to their own sandpit.
which ever way it actually happened (Cooper, Short or Petch are never gonna publically admit the truth as to what actually went down), it is not a good thing form the sport.

[Mr Revhead]

Originally Posted by Jerico

It's not that far away. You can see the similarities.

Suspension pick up points etc would be the key thing.
Also how close to finished is the main structure of the ST?

Thing is if these are supposed to be as fast as a SC, I'm a little concerend about the safety of them. We have all seen the crash's Sc's can have at the speeds they go...

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by smokin'joe

i would claim almost neutrality. i wouldnt waste my time and money on going to a TMC promoted event, especially when i can watch paint dry and watch Teir 1 on TV at the same time............ all about where you position the TV !!!
i have no issue with the car V8ST car, but am concerned about how it came about especially when there was a heap of fanfare regarding the new NZv8 chassis with a common engine (albeit a Henry, at that stage).......... next thing their is a new series with that chassis but now fitted with a GM powerplant

either TMC/MSNZ c^$ked right up and offloaded the new car or certain parties who were sick of being caught with technical irregularities, stole the new car and took it to their own sandpit.
which ever way it actually happened (Cooper, Short or Petch are never gonna publically admit the truth as to what actually went down), it is not a good thing form the sport.

So if you are so neutral then and not an insider then perhaps you are lacking some facts, Mr Joe (and what IS it that you have been smokin?)

So when you get personal and hurl abuse at a person or group of people that you don't even know, I suspect you are suffering from some kind of small person syndrome.

I think you will find most posters here have rather more brain cells than you suspect, or in fact possess...

[promax]

Originally Posted by Mr Revhead

Also how close to finished is the main structure of the ST?

why, what's missing?

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by promax

why, what's missing?

I didn't quite get that question either.

Mr Revhead, if by main structure you mean the chassis, it is completely finished before it leaves Australia apart from etching and painting. Then you start assembling everything on to it - body panels, suspension & brakes, drivetrain etc.

[Mr Revhead]

I was wondering if there was more of the cage to go in. Looks half finished compared to the SC.
For some reason Mark Petch PM's me this instead of posting it in here:

"Hi 'Revhead'
Our V8ST car is as safe, if not safer, in the advent of a "Mark Porter" side intrusion 'T-bone style accident.

There is two ways to skin a cat we chose to mandate the use of a stock standard driver's door, complete with the factory fitted side intrusion bar, which projects a further 120-mm further outboard than the COFT car.

FYI. The Australian cars, present and COFT, run a super-light weight door shell, gutted of everything and offering zero resistance to side impact. That is why they have adopted the IMSA style side intrusion bars.

Remember, "there is more than one way to skin a cat" ours is much more cost effective and just as safe.

If you are at all familiar with an Aussie Supercar, just compare the V8ST, when you get a chance to have a close look at one of our cars, and you will see that we are massively safer than the COFT car in the event of a both frontal and rear impact despite the fact that Our fuel tank sits directly behind the rear axle.

Mark Petch."

Can't wait until I can inspect one up close and personal as looking at those two pictures I seriously doubt it.

[promax]

so the chassis are the same.. but they're not the same

clear as mud

[promax]

Originally Posted by smokin'joe

i would claim almost neutrality. i wouldnt waste my time and money on going to a TMC promoted event, especially when i can watch paint dry and watch Teir 1 on TV at the same time............ all about where you position the TV !!!
i have no issue with the car V8ST car, but am concerned about how it came about especially when there was a heap of fanfare regarding the new NZv8 chassis with a common engine (albeit a Henry, at that stage).......... next thing their is a new series with that chassis but now fitted with a GM powerplant

either TMC/MSNZ c^$ked right up and offloaded the new car or certain parties who were sick of being caught with technical irregularities, stole the new car and took it to their own sandpit.
which ever way it actually happened (Cooper, Short or Petch are never gonna publically admit the truth as to what actually went down), it is not a good thing form the sport.

last i heard about that car was back in January last year.. when it was
expect to arrive from Pace early Feb.. with testing in March.. and Greg Murphy was to be the official ambassador for that car. not sure if it was ever confirmed that the dart ford engine would be in the car though.

[Chappelli]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

If you are at all familiar with an Aussie Supercar, just compare the V8ST, when you get a chance to have a close look at one of our cars, and you will see that we are massively safer than the COFT car in the event of a both frontal and rear impact despite the fact that Our fuel tank sits directly behind the rear axle.

I wonder if the V8 Supercar kids would agree with that statement?

[promax]

this vs this

i'm sure Skaife would disagree

[Mr Revhead]

I could day plenty. But I'll just let the above pics do the talking

[Jerico]

Originally Posted by promax

this vs this

i'm sure Skaife would disagree

The photo of the ST is without the collapsible bolt in rail ends and the fully welded rear panel fitted plus the ST runs an HSS rear bumper iron. The fuel cell is a long way in from the rear of the car held in a steel box.Unlike the fuel cell fitted to the NZV8s that have run that way for years.SC is a very different car in the rear end from the ST. SC will run a transaxle and the in car fuel cell. I do hear that some drivers and teams are not happy about having the fuel cell inside the car with the driver. I wonder why??? The photo posted here yesterday of the ST doesn't really show the chassis very well, so it makes you think it's a very simple design which it is not!

[promax]

Originally Posted by Mr Revhead

I could day plenty. But I'll just let the above pics do the talking