Top 10 drivers 2009

[ralf fan]

Well season's over. Let's rate and slate the performers for 2009. I've missed quite a few races this season so might not be the best informed but here's my list anyway:

1. Jenson Button - Most consistent driver and deserved WDC

2. Sebastien Vettel - Tempted to put him P1 for half the role played in inspiring the Webber Vs Vettel thread. Also damn fine season

3. Lewis Hamilton - Very impressed with some of his drives. So much for the myth that he can only do it when the car is 100%.

4. Mark Webber - Mr consistent and championship contender till he stopped being Mr Consistent and dropped out. 2 wins and the 2nd half of the Webber Vs Vettel thread.

5. Kimi Raikkonen - Would've featured higher if we could have judged his performances against Massa. He was getting royally trounced by Felipe till the accident when Kimi suddenly arose to record an impressive 2nd half to the year.

6. Nicola Rosberg - Williams really missed an opportunity to get more podiums this season. Part of the "diffuser 3" they had an opportunity to get more than what they eventually did but young Nicola was again pretty impressive in most of her outings. I wait to see her in a top car because I have rated her for a while

7. Rubens Barrichello - Yes he had a good last third of the year, but seriously in his best opportunity to win a title, where was he for the first 9 or 10 GPs?

8. Timo Glock - I know Jarno has more points but Timo is far more reliable and consistent. Would make a good no.2 for any top team IMO

9. Jarno Trulli - Mr hot and cold again. But wracked up a good haul of points however one must feel Toyota once again have missed a huge opportunity considering the pace they had at the start as part of the 'diffuser 3'

10. Felipe Massa - Well he did well till he was around and there was no one else to pick from.


Oh dear Oh dear: Alonso, Kovalainen, BMW drivers. Where were these guys apart from a couple of good races?

[steve_r]

I mainly agreee, but - Trulli in the top 10? Surely shome mishtake?

Brundle was telling everyone that other F1 teams factor in the "Trulli Train" in races, to take into account his often lacklustre in race performances.

I would move Massa up a few spots, and put Kubica in the top 10 instead of Trulli. And I think you will find that Alonso is still amongst the cream of the crop, which I'm sure he will prove when he next has a decent car.

[ECW Dan Selby]

I think Alonso had a good season. He ragged that car about and managed some results - something it apparently shouldn't have really been achieving.

Selby

[JamesH]

Excellent Sig Ralf Fan!!

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by ECW Dan Selby

I think Alonso had a good season. He ragged that car about and managed some results - something it apparently shouldn't have really been achieving.

Selby

We will never know how good the Renaults really are, simply because of their usual policy of putting all of their effort into one car (Renault figured out a long time ago the constructors championship was secondary to the drivers championship), and/or putting obviously inferior drivers in the second car.

I wasn't really impressed by Alonso this season I have to say.

As for top ten drivers............nah! I won't bother.

[Chatters]

#1 - Jenson Button: An incredible first half of the season, followed by a few tough races, follow by some more quality drives.

#2 - Sebastian Vettel: 4 wins, 2nd in the Championship, only let down by some rookie mistakes at Australia, Malaysia and Monaco.

=#3 - Mark Webber: Finally a breakout season for Webber, in a good car, 2 wins and a string of podiums. WELL DONE MARK!

=#3 - Lewis Hamilton: Not bad enough to be classified 4th behind Webber, but some poor form from him at the start of the season stops him from being 3rd overall.

#5 - Rubens Barrichello: Showed strength with 2 wins this season, but not a champion's drive in a car clearly capable of winning the championship.

#6 - Kimi Raikkonen: Showed some determination in the latter half of the season without Felipe alongside him, but not consistent enough all year.

#7 - Nico Rosberg: A consistent points finisher, even looked the goods at Singapor before that silly pit lane exit.

#8 - Timo Glock: Showed some promise towards the start of the season, but faltered afterwards, was looking good at Singapore and Japan until the crash and injury.

#9 - Adrian Sutil: Unfortunately pipped by Fisichella to score Force India's first points, but good showings at Shanghai and points at Monza shows there's definately some talent.

#10 - Felipe Massa: Another season gone begging...

Oh dear Oh dear: BMW Sauber, Renault, Nakajima...

[ECW Dan Selby]

Originally Posted by Marbot

We will never know how good the Renaults really are, simply because of their usual policy of putting all of their effort into one car (Renault figured out a long time ago the constructors championship was secondary to the drivers championship), and/or putting obviously inferior drivers in the second car.

I wasn't really impressed by Alonso this season I have to say.

As for top ten drivers............nah! I won't bother.

Don't get me wrong, there was nothing extraordinary. He certainly wouldn't be in my Top 5, but he'd make my Top 10 (for sure?).

If Alonso's driving the car at a track and it's lagging near the bottom, you know that the car just isn't up to this track. If he's up there and flying, you know he's getting the best ouf of it. I know this sounds obvious, but my point is his consistancy and ability to use him as a benchmark for how well the car is actually performing.

Selby

[crmalcolm]

Having looked back through the DotR Polls this season, the following results are gleaned;

GP	But	Vet	Web	Bar	Ham	Fis	Glo	Kob	Oth	Rai	Tru	Ros	Bue	Sut	Hei	Kub	Mas	Alo	Bou	Kov	Nak
Australia	105			4	33		2				13		13	1				1
Malaysia	54		22		1		36		2			2			12
China		97	15						1				13	8						1
Bahrain	82	2			9		1		6	6	1
Spain	41		70	7						2		1			1		1	1
Monaco	73		9	1		5			1	10							1	1	5
Turkey	57	3	28						5	1	1	11				1
Britain		60	5	3					9			1					15
Germany		1	138				1		4			9					1	5		2
Hungary			3		68		13		1	9		3									1
Europe				65	5				1	2		1				1
Belgium		2	1	2		112				13
Italy	2			60		1			10	1				17	4			4
Singapore	14				28		41		2									5			1
Japan	1	48			1				2	2	24	1			2	1
Brazil	66	2	36		12				22	3			1			18
Abu Dhabi	6	18	9					62							2
Total	501	233	336	142	157	118	94	62	66	49	39	29	27	26	21	21	18	17	5	3	2
DotR Wins	6	3	2	2	1	1	1	1	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0

[jab]

I'd actually have Alonso down as my top driver again this year. He's put him some great performances over the year and hasn't made any mistakes to my knowledge. If you look back through the Autosport ratings after each race from this year (bar Abu Dhabi), he's actually picked up the 2nd most 'points', just behind Button and just ahead of Hamilton and Webber

It's also worth remembering that Massa was doing a very good job before his injury, because I know he'll be forgotten. I'd have him in my top 10 as well

[Marbot]

Button did well in the poll, but was obviously subject to the 'Ari Vatanen effect'.

Webber gets votes even when he retires on the first lap.

I noticed that "Oth" also did well.Someone really ought to give him a drive.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by jab

I'd actually have Alonso down as my top driver again this year.

I couldn't do that.There was no real frame of reference to know whether he was driving like a 'God' or absolutely appaulingly.He did publicly 'say' that he had driven well, so maybe we should just take his word for it.

I also remember the odd mistake here and there that maybe didn't matter this season, but next season............

[Super Hans]

1) Hamilton - Didn't cover himself in glory during the lying scandal but regularly put in scintillating performances which probably helped convert a few of his detractors. I get the feeling he'll be almost unstoppable next season.
2) Button - He was sublime in building up a huge lead and solid in defending it.
3) Vettel - Devastatingly quick, especially when leading from the front. A pretender to the Alonso / Hamilton hegemony?
4) Raikkonen - A pretty nondescript first half was followed by a strong second where he helped steer Ferrari through choppy waters.
5) Barrichello - This time last year he was so close to the knackers yard he could smell the manure. Now he has revived his career, bagged a couple more wins and earned himself another season at the very least.

[F.O.F.]

1. Button. Made hay while the sun shone,did enough for the rest of the season.

2. Vettel. Made a genuine bid for the title and recorded some crushing victories.Only let down by some rookie mistakes,but you have to believe he'll be the complete package sooner rather than later.(I'd love to see him get the title in the red bull before he gets poached by one of the big 2)

3. Webber. Finally got his chance to show what he's made of and didn't dissapoint. I'd still be surprised to see him get a title (with his luck) but everyone in the paddock now knows he is, and always has been worthy of a top drive.

4. Hamilton. He's really matured. Acted like a champion should when given dodgy machinery.Ragged the hell out of his car at any given opportunity.

5. Alonso. showed he's still the most complete driver on the grid,even if he was driving a tractor.

6. Raikkonen. near the end of the season was apparently posting times beyond the theoretical maximum of the car.Good ol' Kimi

7. Rosberg. 34.5(correct?)points to Nakajima's 0.The year I've finally started to rate him.Looked to be ragging the car from what I can remember from on-boards.

8. Barrichello. Suppose i have to put him here somewhere.Not as good as Button but good for a fossil.Not to mention the fact that he pretty much resurrected his career.

9. Heidfeld. Seemed to have the measure of Kubica who i would put well ahead of nick on almost any other list.Stayed solid in another tractor.

10. Kobayashi. Most surprising debut for a driver in a long time. In 2 races showed the rest of the rookies what they should be doing.

I should put Sutil ahead of Kamui but I'm not gonna,I'm an emotional creature. And Glock should be up there as well.

Things I've seen enough of: Nakajima,Trulli trains,Heidfeld's beard.

[Jamesy-18]

Originally Posted by Chatters

#10 - Felipe Massa: Another season gone begging...

Well what the F do you expect when he'd been out for nearly half the season with an injury? And even then it was his fault!

[Tathrim]

1) - Button - After the start of the season he did just enough, and was calm throughout.

2) Vettel - Consistent, and could have been champion this year IMO if reliability hadn't struck.

3) Hamilton - did the best with a bad job to start with, managed to bag one or two wins when they had caught up.

4) Webber - showed the potential for a championship, but was unlucky over the course of the season.

5) Barichello - Impressive, solid wins, good qualifying, but hasn't made the best of the car this year, somethign evident when he stated the "blah, blah, blah" quote.

6) Massa - this may sound like a strange one, but Massa was beating Raikonnen over the season before Hungary, and would have made the best of a car that wan't being developed.

7) Raikonnen - Outclassed (by a country mile) Fisichella and Badoer. Was quick in the car once things got going post Belgium. Not so good to start with.

8) Rosberg - Solid for a tractor, especailly when compared to Nakajima.

9) Glock - Most reliable of the Toyota drivers, has been consistently in the 3rd - 5th range when finishing.

10) Sutil - may have been less consistent than Fisi, but has shown the speed and the head needed to lead a team into 2010.

Honourable mention - Kobayashi - good races for a rookie in Brazil and Abu Shabi, but I'm weary of selecting him because of what has happened to so many drivers over the course of their careers.

Oh dear...... Piquet Jr, Grosjean, Kovalinen, Badoer.

[strider]

Originally Posted by Tathrim

7) Raikonnen - Outclassed (by a country mile) Fisichella and Badoer. Was quick in the car once things got going post Belgium. Not so good to start with.

Maybe it was coincidence, but he was quick in the races once poor Massa had his accident. 2nd in Hungary started the good run and he won in Belgium. He was fairly invisible in a couple of races including, sadly, the last one, but that was because Ferrari had long since abandoned development of the F60 in favour of working on the 2010 car.

[kartracer41]

Originally Posted by strider

Maybe it was coincidence, but he was quick in the races once poor Massa had his accident. 2nd in Hungary started the good run and he won in Belgium. He was fairly invisible in a couple of races including, sadly, the last one, but that was because Ferrari had long since abandoned development of the F60 in favour of working on the 2010 car.

I don't think it's any coincidence. It's no secret that Ferrari worked their cars around Massa. It is likely partly Kimi's fault for not speaking up soon enough. It took 3/4 of the season in '08 for him to speak up and they quickly reverted his car back a hand full of revisions and he started performing.

[Mr V]

1.Button Most wins, points and overtake's. Got the most out of the car when he could, did more than enough when the car wasn't as good.

2.Vettel The best driver in F1 now imo, made a few mistakes which cost him points plus reliability possibly cost him the title.

3.Webber Won twice and had a pole which is more than i expected from him tbh.

4.Hamilton Really grown up alot this season imo. Drove better than he has done in previous season's plus seem's to have become more "likable" when interviewed. Such a shame he let himself down oer the "lie-gate" debacle.

5.Raikkonen Totally out-classed Badoer and Fisi, but can't help feeling that Felipe would be in the top 5 instead of Kimi had it not been for that accident.

6.Rosberg Came of age in 09 and destroyed Nakajima.

7.Alonso Along with Vettel, the best driver in F1, shame the Renault wasn't upto the job. Destroyed both Piquet and Grosjean. Can't wait to see him in the Ferrari next year.

8.Barrichello Won twice but couldn't get enough out of the car like Jenson did.

[Trev Campbell]

1) Button: Was superb in the first half of the season, got the shakes a bit in the second half but did enough to win the title.

2) Vettel: Had some races where he was untouchable and others where he made some silly mistakes.

3) Webber: Breakout season where he proved he's good enough. his championship bid was derailed by team errors in the end.

4) Hamilton: Once the McLaren was fixed he was the best driver in the last half of the season

5) Barrichello: Was put in the shade by Button in the first half of the season and had a whinge about it, but then had Button's measure in the second half

6) Rosberg: When the Williams suited a circuit he was usually right in the mix. Blotted his copybook in Singapore and possibly cost himself victory

7) Raikkonen: Along with Hamilton was impressive in the second half of the season with a string of podiums

8) Alonso: Battled hard with a car that was not to impressive for some scattered good results

9) Glock: Some good races, seemed to have the measure of Trulli but didn't put the score on the board

10) Sutil: Showed some very good pace, but seems to be a magnet for trouble. Trulli, Kovalienen etc.

Mention: Massa would have been around 4-5 if he had of completed the entire season, had the measure of Kimi while they were together.

[Born Racer]

I'm going to do a top 10 based on doing the best with what talent they have, hence Webber being in front of Vettel for instance, despite the 'logic' being to put Vettel in front for various reasons; i.e. I believe Vettel to be more talented than Webber, so am rewarding Mark for the effort involved in doing well compared to his team-mate.

I'm not setting out to penalise people for talent though, so Hamilton is going to be well up the list, I would have thought.

Button is also juuuust going to get my number 1 slot. Haven't thought about my list much yet, but here goes.

I'm taking the easy option of excluding Massa, due to a curtailed season, but am keeping the difficult option of judging Raikkonen without him, thrashing his post-Massa team-mates, but being beaten by Massa beforehand.

1. Button
2. Hamilton
3. Webber
4. Vettel
5. Rosberg
6. Alonso
7. Heidfeld
8. Raikkonen
9. Kubica
10. Barrichello

[strider]

Jon Noble did a poll of all the people who follow him on Twitter and the results came out like this:

1 Button 1715 points;
2 Vettel 1273;
3 Hamilton 891;
4 Barrichello 543;
5 Webber 466;
6 Raikkonen 314;
7 Rosberg 182;
8 Alonso 152;
9 Kobayashi 148;
10 Massa 39.

Three points of particular interest. Button won comfortably and Kobayashi had a spectacular late surge, whilst neither BMW driver featured.

In my view the top 7 have be there in one order or another. It's how you make up the remaining places that's interesting.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

I'm going to do a top 10 based on doing the best with what talent they have, hence Webber being in front of Vettel for instance, despite the 'logic' being to put Vettel in front for various reasons; i.e. I believe Vettel to be more talented than Webber, so am rewarding Mark for the effort involved in doing well compared to his team-mate.

I just know i'm going to regret this and i'm not highlighting this because you listed Mark ahead of Seb, but surely this smacks of the "sympathy" vote?

Driver A, out wins and out scores Driver B, but because Driver B put in more "effort" (and how do we measure that one by the way?) that puts Driver B higher up in the table? Not forgetting of course, that maybe Driver B has to put in more effort because he's not as talented.

It's possible that Piquet Jr put in more "effort" that Fernando, but what good did it do him? For all his effort, fact was, he's nowhere near as talented as FA.

[p-matt]

1. Button
2. Hamilton
3. Vettel
4. Webber
5. Raikkonen
6. Alonso
7. Rosberg
8. Barrichello
9. Heidfeld
10. Glock
--------
11. Massa
12. Trulli
13. Fisi (would be top 10 if it weren't for the Ferrari switch)
14. Buemi
15. Kobayashi
16. Sutil
17. Kubica
18. Liuzzi
19. Bourdais
20. Alguersuari

21. Kovalainen
22. Piquet
23. Grosjean
24. Nakajima
25. Badoer

[BootsOntheSide]

1 Button - but you'd usually need to do more to top this list. He made the most of his early season opportunities and was usually solid later in the year. Not sure he could have done much if the early-season pace hadn't been translated into 6 wins though.

2 Vettel - Three early-season mistakes sour things a bit, but the points he lost later were more down to mechanical issues. This is undoubtedly the year Vettel arrived among the very top drivers in F1

3 Rosberg - Another who maximised the car's potential, was amazingly solid in the middle of the season. He was much further ahead of Nakajima than anyone could have predicted. Richly deserves a genuinely competitive car for 2010.

4 Alonso - Just about the only driver who didn't make a big mistake all season. Renault were off the boil, but he didn't stop tryign despite having a likely better 2010 car. Like Raikkonen he made his new team-mate look pretty inept.

5 Hamilton - This seems a bit generous considering the mistakes in Melbourne/Monaco/Germany/Italy (where could he have been in the standings without those?), but he has to take a lot of credit for McLaren continuing to improve.

6 Webber - Seemed to crumble after Germany, and only really shone again once the opportunity was gone. Trounced by Vettel in qualifying, but pretty solid in the races. I'm glad he's in the list of Grand Prix winners now.

7 Raikkonen - Once Massa was gone, his results improved massively. And it's not as if he was ever miles off Felipe's pace. Badoer and Fisichella's performances make me think the car wasn't as good as he and Felipe made it look.

8 Barrichello - Luck wasn't always on his side, but the results were solid. Probably just about justified an opportunity he didn't really expect.

9 Massa - Pulled above his weight before the horrors of Hungary, even if he probably had the car built around him.

10 Glock - Somehow shone more than Trulli, even though he got less points

[Bononi]

1-But
2-Vet
3-Web
4-Bar
5-Ham
6-Rai
7-Alo
8-Kub
9-Kob
10-Tru

With or without KERS ??????