End of the Falcon (Again!!) - Page 2

bluesport · 12 Jan 2010, 04:05 (Ref:2612037)

With due respect to those that post on this forum from the USA......I can't ever see myself buying any vehicle made in America.

JHamilton · 12 Jan 2010, 04:07 (Ref:2612039)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axeman444

if it looks anything like the cockroach they tried to feed us last time, even as a Ford Supporter, not a chance...

It doesn't and it's a much better and bigger car. It is now full size with the midsize segment being filled by the Fusion. Although, I'm sure that's no comfort.

Matt · 12 Jan 2010, 04:20 (Ref:2612041)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHamilton

It doesn't and it's a much better and bigger car. It is now full size with the midsize segment being filled by the Fusion. Although, I'm sure that's no comfort.

And it looks awesome in the flesh too.

Oldtony · 12 Jan 2010, 04:24 (Ref:2612042)

No one seems to be taking into account the Territory, which in RWD form as well as 4WD makes up a fairly large proportion of Ford's Australian showroom throughput. It shares a lot of the Falcon platform. Certainly it needs a diesel option and a good frehen up but it is a pretty useful bit of kit.
The Taurus might be a disaster but it's nowhere near as bad as the Explorer in it's market segment. Why Ford didn't build the Territory in the US instead of the Explorer is hard to understand.
Ford worldwide is going to need a medium/large RWD platform for cabs, cop cars, limos, an RWD SUV and of course the performance range. The logic would seem to be to leave development of that platform in the hands of the people at Broadmeadows who have reasonable form in that area.
Engines and other bits could be scourced from wherever most economical for a local market and building could be wherever the economics ruled.
But then Detriot egos would probably get in the way. We miss you Geoff Polites.

Mixer · 12 Jan 2010, 04:29 (Ref:2612046)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldtony

No one seems to be taking into account the Territory, which in RWD form as well as 4WD makes up a fairly large proportion of Ford's Australian showroom throughput. It shares a lot of the Falcon platform. Certainly it needs a diesel option and a good frehen up but it is a pretty useful bit of kit.

The Territory is past its best and I doubt you'll see a new model.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldtony

Ford worldwide is going to need a medium/large RWD platform for cabs, cop cars, limos, an RWD SUV and of course the performance range. The logic would seem to be to leave development of that platform in the hands of the people at Broadmeadows who have reasonable form in that area.

America just do not really care about RWD, the offering from Ford for the next cop car will be AWD/FWD. Cabs and limos are not markets you develop vehicles for, and the US SUV market is all body-on-frame rather than based off a passenger car.

marcus · 12 Jan 2010, 04:40 (Ref:2612047)

this belongs in the road car forum folks , if you want to discuss road cars follow the thread , if you want to discuss what this means to V8 supercars or Australian motorsport in general then by all means start a new thread about that.

SSbaby · 12 Jan 2010, 11:44 (Ref:2612115)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mixer

The way I read it, the Falcon will be FWD and AWD, and the Mustang may get sold here. Nowhere does it say the new Falcon will be RWD on the Mustang platform.

No it doesn't but the article is hardly be-all, end-all... and most of the assumptions are made by the journalist. All Ford have said publicly is that a decision doesn't need to be reached for another 18 months.

If you follow some gossip on the various forums from reliable 'insiders', there are two other confirmed, dedicated RWD vehicles (other than Falcon) in Ford's future:

In order of launch...

1. Lincoln RWD police pursuit car
2. Mustang

The recent rumour is that the RWD Lincoln platform would have a lot in common with Falcon. This could be the lifeline Falcon needs. Only a rumour but at least it's better than the glass-half-empty nonsense from the media.

Also around the same time that the new generation Falcon is due, Ford will have launched the new generation Mustang. The possibility might be there to have both vehicles sharing the same RWD platform as the model cycle times align perfectly.

Two real distinct possibilities if you follow the auto industry closely. Watch this space.

Unless, Ford are using the media to swing their fans around to the notion that FWD and AWD will be the basis for Falcon's new future, which we are not privy to... then that's another story.

JHamilton · 12 Jan 2010, 17:37 (Ref:2612290)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mixer

America just do not really care about RWD, the offering from Ford for the next cop car will be AWD/FWD. Cabs and limos are not markets you develop vehicles for, and the US SUV market is all body-on-frame rather than based off a passenger car.

Some of us care.

I have read articles that think the next Police Interceptor will be based on either the Falcon or the Taurus. Given the latest news, one would think it would be the Taurus. GM however, are starting to import Chevy badged Statesman called Police Pursuit Vehicles. It would be interesting if Ford responded with the Falcon. Here is the biggest problem... The Vic is body on frame. Large police departments have frame pullers and tons of parts laying around. They are cheap and easy to fix. If you slam a Taurus or Falcon around, you're buying a new one.

Ford produces about 60-80k Crown Vic/Grand Marquis a year. Those aren't great numbers, but certainly not a market you want to ignore. Nor is the Aussie market. It will be interesting to see how they respond.

Oh, and just a small correction, but the vast majority SUVs sold here are unibody crossovers like the Territory.

mountainstar · 12 Jan 2010, 18:27 (Ref:2612314)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHamilton

Some of us care.

I have read articles that think the next Police Interceptor will be based on either the Falcon or the Taurus. Given the latest news, one would think it would be the Taurus. GM however, are starting to import Chevy badged Statesman called Police Pursuit Vehicles. It would be interesting if Ford responded with the Falcon. Here is the biggest problem... The Vic is body on frame. Large police departments have frame pullers and tons of parts laying around. They are cheap and easy to fix. If you slam a Taurus or Falcon around, you're buying a new one.

Ford produces about 60-80k Crown Vic/Grand Marquis a year. Those aren't great numbers, but certainly not a market you want to ignore. Nor is the Aussie market. It will be interesting to see how they respond.

Oh, and just a small correction, but the vast majority SUVs sold here are unibody crossovers like the Territory.

Yeah well a lot of those police departments like LAPD recognize they are all stocked up with the Crown vic stuff, but also that the time has come for something better and safer, hence the change. The crown vic as is, is 20 years old with a lot of it dating back into the 1970's.

I have some experience with them and they are long in the tooth compared to the tech that is out there now. The Holden will be quite welcome.

Actually I heard there is supposed to be an announcement here soon about Ford's new police vehicle to replace the Crown Vic.

Mixer · 13 Jan 2010, 01:36 (Ref:2612522)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Actually I heard there is supposed to be an announcement here soon about Ford's new police vehicle to replace the Crown Vic.

While I await that 'announcement' the Chevy PPV is available now. I think the Ford announcement was just a spoiler, does anybody really think they can develop a car like that in 12 months?

mountainstar · 13 Jan 2010, 03:18 (Ref:2612552)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mixer

While I await that 'announcement' the Chevy PPV is available now. I think the Ford announcement was just a spoiler, does anybody really think they can develop a car like that in 12 months?

Actually I heard back in 2007 and 2008 Ford was already looking at what they were going to do as they knew the Crown Vic and it's derivatives were pass the point of usefulness. So it's been on the drawing board for a while, the financial crisis obviously a problem for a while.

Someone said an announcement is due at the end of month. I guess we'll see. Word is it's supposed to be a Falcon derived car. Again we'll see.

Chris - Melb · 13 Jan 2010, 12:09 (Ref:2612683)

Confirmation from Marin Burela Click here

But wait, does that mean we will get a AWD Taurus based Falcon GTHO? Long live the Falcon!

Mixer · 13 Jan 2010, 12:15 (Ref:2612685)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris - Melb

But wait, does that mean we will get a AWD Taurus based Falcon GTHO? Long live the Falcon!

Oh well there goes the notion of a Falcon that handles. It will be a 2 ton barge that understeers like a boat.

Shiney · 13 Jan 2010, 13:44 (Ref:2612743)

The problem here is the media. If enough writers think it makes a good story (600 jobs lost), then they may just keep publishing stories of doom and gloom. Anybody remember what happened to Mitsubishi Australia???? Don't believe a word they say. The Falcon is safe. (It is also interesting that everybody still calls it a Falcon!!!!)

Matt · 13 Jan 2010, 18:23 (Ref:2612875)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mixer

Oh well there goes the notion of a Falcon that handles. It will be a 2 ton barge that understeers like a boat.

Hooray ignorance!

inpitlane · 13 Jan 2010, 22:39 (Ref:2613033)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiney

The problem here is the media. If enough writers think it makes a good story (600 jobs lost), then they may just keep publishing stories of doom and gloom. Anybody remember what happened to Mitsubishi Australia???? Don't believe a word they say. The Falcon is safe. (It is also interesting that everybody still calls it a Falcon!!!!)

Blaming the messenger is an old trick and usually wrong.
The FACTS are:
Alan Mulally has announced that there will only be one large car platform for Ford around the world.
Marin Burela told the media that the days of producing a car specific to one small market only were over.
For Ford the only choice is will the next Falcon be based on the FWD/AWD Taurus platform or the RWD Mustang platform.
Ask Ford's marketing department which one they want and you'll be drowned out by the former.
FWD is great for fleets and taxis and they make up a huge percentage of Falcon sales.

johnh875 · 14 Jan 2010, 06:10 (Ref:2613120)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainstar

But it looks like the current Falcon is going to be around for another 5 years anyways.

That was never in doubt, it is only 2yr into the current platform cycle.

Brett, I agree with you that they are looking for the reaction which will help shape the rwd/fwd decision. Note that the fleet sales % is decreasing quite a bit on FG, and the number of new-purchase taxis is virtually insignificant.

Re blaming the messenger, do you believe that Mitsi didn't loose sales because of all the doom and gloom merchants?

Matt - fact is the Taurus SHO is ~250kg heavier than a Falcon turbo

STEALTHY · 14 Jan 2010, 09:45 (Ref:2613185)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt

Hooray ignorance!

Falcons (and commodores) are not made to handle. Throwing an AWD setup in them wont make then a GTR in any respect.......

JHamilton · 14 Jan 2010, 16:35 (Ref:2613407)

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

Falcons (and commodores) are not made to handle. Throwing an AWD setup in them wont make then a GTR in any respect.......

Slightly modified they are some of the quickest sedans in the world. The coupe 4 was pretty quick. Either way, I don't think anyone is going to put an AWD setup in a Falcon.

cavvy · 17 Jan 2010, 22:14 (Ref:2614845)

Ford breakdown
FORD Australia has shed more than 30 ''contracted agency employees'' involved in the development of new projects - another sign the future of the Australian-designed Falcon is grim.

Victorian-based staff were told on Friday their contracts would not be extended. Most were working on future projects for Ford Australia, primarily in computer-aided engineering.

Ford Australia spokeswoman Sinead McAlary said they were employed via a third party and were not ''direct employees of Ford Australia''.

She said the contracts of ''just under 30 people'' were not extended. ''They were employed for a specific project and that project has come to an end.''

Last week, Ford's global chief executive Alan Mulally said the Australian Falcon could soon be a thing of the past, as the company's One Ford strategy required just one large-car platform.

http://www.theage.com.au/business/af...0117-meb1.html

johnh875 · 18 Jan 2010, 06:26 (Ref:2614941)

I reckon that is likely to do with the T6 pick-up project reaching the finish. The design dept will be in a reasonably quiet period now - minor work for Falcon and Territory facelifts only in the next 12-24 months?

JHamilton · 18 Jan 2010, 20:20 (Ref:2615293)

Is the Falcon roughly the size of a Statesman?

Mixer · 18 Jan 2010, 22:07 (Ref:2615375)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHamilton

Is the Falcon roughly the size of a Statesman?

Not really, the Fairline/LTD were the long wheelbase, so the Statesman would be a longer car than the Falcon, I would suggest.

cavvy · 18 Jan 2010, 22:37 (Ref:2615401)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mixer

Not really, the Fairline/LTD were the long wheelbase, so the Statesman would be a longer car than the Falcon, I would suggest.

JHam, the Fairlane was cut late 2007.

A 40 car rally wont impress:
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/bus...e-ford-falcon/

Matt · 19 Jan 2010, 02:57 (Ref:2615495)

Quote:

Originally Posted by cavvy

JHam, the Fairlane was cut late 2007.

A 40 car rally wont impress:
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/bus...e-ford-falcon/

The second last line there really is something that shouldn't be put into a news article, no matter how true it may be.

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