Sportscar/GT (and Le Mans) Rumours and Repetition

[deggis]

Glickenhaus reveals* 2017 LMP1 plan:

http://blackflag.jalopnik.com/jim-gl...ine-1735682208

We are also moving forward on development of our LMP1 program for 2017 and have sourced a great engine and Bosch Hybrid system. Still looking for partners and sponsors.

Looks like he (James Glickenhaus) is also answering to comments on that page.

Is ERS class a smart idea considering how hard it is already for Rebellion to finish a race without issues?

* he has talked about this at least on a RLM interview, but not sure if he ever mentioned a year.

[Deleted]

Entering hybrid class as privateer will mean they'll have to abolish the separate trophy gifts for non hybrid privateers, or it would seem (even more) silly system.

In any case it's goodnews, even if indeed not really 'news news' as ou say. Trust project -and respect - more this than say Brabham project...

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

??? Ford is entering plus Ferrari, Porsche, Aston, BMW, Corvette (and Riley/Keating-Viper) are all gonna continue in some capacity - and with new/updated cars on top of that! - how much more variety do you want? Is 6-7 different brand and cars not enough? (you'll probably see them all at LM in '16). At some point a man has to be satisfy with what he has...



Edit: The current, GT4 car is gonna be a cool addition to GTS in PWC!

http://motorsport.sincars.co.uk/sin-...rld-challenge/

I said GTE, not GTLM. In the wec series you have only 3 brands. 4 next year. In tudor theres more, but no bmw at LM, and Viper is GTD. If they do wec next year itll be an AM car. Not a new pro car.

[Acid09]

German news magazine Der Spiegel is reporting that VAG is looking to cut their expenses both in professional football (they own VfL Wolfsburg and sponsor half the Bundesliga) as well as in motorsports.

This does not bode well for LMP1, the dual program in the WEC is an easy victim I think. One factory programme of this scale might be justifiable, two are likely seen as a bit of a luxury.

[Pandemonium]

No no and no... Both programmes are safe.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Acid09

German news magazine Der Spiegel is reporting that VAG is looking to cut their expenses both in professional football (they own VfL Wolfsburg and sponsor half the Bundesliga) as well as in motorsports.

This does not bode well for LMP1, the dual program in the WEC is an easy victim I think. One factory programme of this scale might be justifiable, two are likely seen as a bit of a luxury.

We have to wait and see.
The LMP1 programs is the most useful of all their Sports related programs.
Surely the massive Wolfsburg football team will be dropped, together with the VW WRC program and even the DTM program (which had it's own scandals, and could be outsourced to Abt racing again).
The Audi and Porsche LMP programs are valuable for development of the technology which is going to "save" VAG now that diesel looks to be a "doomed" fuel.
eMobility, as VAG calls their electric (and hybrid) programs, is well established and is getting quite good results. The Golf GTE is the best hybrid in the danish market by far, and the new Porsche Mission E is getting a lot of attention, with the first orders already been made.

The value of marketing and developing this technology is imperative for VAG, so the LMP programs should be kept as this is the only place they can do this.

[Simmi]

I think it's even got passed what is deemed 'valuable' for the company.

They've come out and said they are going to make cuts to everything that is not 'essential'. Motorsport is certainly not essential so I'd be amazed if we didn't see some great programmes bite the dust.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Acid09

German news magazine Der Spiegel is reporting that VAG is looking to cut their expenses both in professional football (they own VfL Wolfsburg and sponsor half the Bundesliga) as well as in motorsports.

This does not bode well for LMP1, the dual program in the WEC is an easy victim I think. One factory programme of this scale might be justifiable, two are likely seen as a bit of a luxury.

So if this is the case, then they would probably can the diesel and keep the petrol, if one has to go.







L.P.

[Pandemonium]

Do you guys not listen when they tell you both progammes are safe?

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Simmi

I think it's even got passed what is deemed 'valuable' for the company.

They've come out and said they are going to make cuts to everything that is not 'essential'. Motorsport is certainly not essential so I'd be amazed if we didn't see some great programmes bite the dust.

That's the reason why I think the Polo WRC program will be closed after this year.

Originally Posted by Pandemonium

Do you guys not listen when they tell you both progammes are safe?

Who are they, and what sources is it from?

[chernaudi]

From Sportscar 365 after they interviewed Marco Ujhasi (head of Porsche's GT program):

"***A decision has still yet to be made on the future of Porsche’s factory GTE-Pro effort next year, according to Marco Ujhasi, Overall Project Leader GT Works Motorsport. “We’ll try to make the right decision,” he told Sportscar365. “We need the confirmation of the board if we want to go. We’ll see. We’ll keep it open until the end of the season."

"***Ujhasi said he has no personal concerns on a possible cutback in budget from parent company VW, in the wake of the emissions scandal. It’s understood both the Porsche and Audi LMP1 programs will also continue into 2016 unaffected."

Of course, Peugeot Sport's LMP1 program seemed to be going fine until PSA started laying off workers...

And the inference might be that if Volkswagen Group decided to make cuts on the WEC side of things, maybe Porsche's full factory program in GTE-Pro might go or get cut back (semi-works privateer effort as opposed to a full factory team). It's sort of redundant to have full factory programs for Porsche in LMP1 and GT. Though to be fair, the IMSA GTLM effort did get it's contract renewed this week.

[TheMightyM]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

From Sportscar 365 after they interviewed Marco Ujhasi (head of Porsche's GT program):

"***A decision has still yet to be made on the future of Porsche’s factory GTE-Pro effort next year, according to Marco Ujhasi, Overall Project Leader GT Works Motorsport. “We’ll try to make the right decision,” he told Sportscar365. “We need the confirmation of the board if we want to go. We’ll see. We’ll keep it open until the end of the season."

"***Ujhasi said he has no personal concerns on a possible cutback in budget from parent company VW, in the wake of the emissions scandal. It’s understood both the Porsche and Audi LMP1 programs will also continue into 2016 unaffected."

The key line: “It’s understood [by John Dagys that] both the Porsche and Audi LMP1 programs will also continue into 2016 unaffected." Who Dagys’ exact sources are and when he talked to them is unclear.

I’m really not buying it — it’s too early in the process, and I rather doubt that VAG has made final decision as to what goes, what stays but gets a budget cut, and what stays completely unaffected yet. It’s also quite possible that for contractual or other reasons, some cuts to racing programs, sports sponsorships etc. might not happen until the 2017 or even the 2018 seasons.

In general, I’ve always thought that VAG brands Audi and Porsche battling each other (and Toyota and maybe Nissan) in LMP1 was inherently a time-limited proposition. At $200 million+ a year for each program, it’s just hard to justify that level of investment to win Le Mans (and do some technology development) over a prolonged period of time. At some point, something would happen that would prompt VAG to eliminate one or the other programs as they had a better use (opportunity) for the money elsewhere. This scandal could still very easily be that “something.”

[chernaudi]

Strangely, Consumer Reports magazine did a test where they believe that they did hack into both the compliant and "cheater" modes, and in compliant mode, the cars don't lose that much in fuel economy or performance, especially the newer cars.

IE, VW spent all that time and money developing the cheater mode and trying to save $400 or so per car for basically nothing, and they'll have to settle fines and lawsuits after this, which probably includes fitting the $400 Denoxtronic AdBlue systems.

I don't think that it'll endanger the LMP1 programs (Dagys reportedly got that info from the Porsche GT guy and other anon. sources at Audi and Porsche), but VAG are still looking at possible cuts as a contingency plan for if/when the fines and lawsuits pile up and how much they'll ultimately pay.

That does mean that redundancies will be the first to go, such as some of the soccer sponsorships and maybe stuff like the Porsche GT program as a full factory effort. It might not come to that, but it seems that the Audi and Porsche LMP1 programs are getting priority on motorsports funding, and the new Volkswagen Group boss is a fan of racing.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by CTD

Surely the massive Wolfsburg football team will be dropped, together with the VW WRC program and even the DTM program (which had it's own scandals, and could be outsourced to Abt racing again).

The football team could be big but because they actually (co-)own it and the arena instead of just sponsoring, they could be making profit with it, or at least should be because apparently the team is doing well in the standings.

But if you're looking at this through WEC-tinted glasses, then it is of course easy to see everything else except WEC getting dropped.

[Deleted]

Maybe Audi could just do Le Mans and quit everything else, leaving champ to Porsche to go against Toyota (and Nissan if they don't jump ship). There was a reason Audi dropped everything except 3 races in 2009 after doing full ALMS+LMS+LM the previous year

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Maybe Audi could just do Le Mans and quit everything else, leaving champ to Porsche to go against Toyota (and Nissan if they don't jump ship). There was a reason Audi dropped everything except 3 races in 2009 after doing full ALMS+LMS+LM the previous year

Difference is that their competitor did the same thing back then so that's a non-starter idea unless they just want to be just also-rans at LM. And still pour same amount of money to developing the car they have no idea how it compares to the rivals. And between the lines I can see yet another WEC-hate post.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by deggis

Difference is that their competitor did the same thing back then so that's a non-starter idea unless they just want to be just also-rans at LM. And still pour same amount of money to developing the car they have no idea how it compares to the rivals. And between the lines I can see yet another WEC-hate post.

No actually this time it wasn't

Technically Pug did more in 2009 as they entered Spa 1000km as well while Audi did nothing between Sebring and LM. As Peugeot never did full ALMS anyway they had only dropped 4 LMS races from 2008

Also Pug sold extra chassis to Pesca meaning 4 against 3.

But most importantly of all Audi knew Pug had proven three years old chassis that was lightning fast, while Audi was introducing brand new and ultimately ill-fated R15 they weren't absolutely sure was gonna match em

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

(Dagys reportedly got that info from the Porsche GT guy and other anon. sources at Audi and Porsche)

I'll translate that.

He's not got a clue. Because nobody else does either. It's another one of his classic 50/50 clickbait lines where if something happens, he's right, and if nothing happens, he's also right.

[Deleted]

Sometimes I find the amount of hatred towards John astounding

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Sometimes I find the amount of hatred towards John astounding

I don't thate the guy, I just dislike his journalistic style.

[Deleted]

Fair enough

It's not like I've shown universal agreement to every presses style either

[rich07]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Sometimes I find the amount of hatred towards John astounding

I don't get it either. I know not everyone's a fan of cargo pants but that shouldn't influence a persons view of someone.

[Graham Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

??? Ford is entering plus Ferrari, Porsche, Aston, BMW, Corvette (and Riley/Keating-Viper) are all gonna continue in some capacity - and with new/updated cars on top of that! - how much more variety do you want? Is 6-7 different brand and cars not enough? (you'll probably see them all at LM in '16). At some point a man has to be satisfy with what he has...



Edit: The current, GT4 car is gonna be a cool addition to GTS in PWC!

http://motorsport.sincars.co.uk/sin-...rld-challenge/

GTE will depend entirely on whether they build sufficient road cars (plus a large amount of money of course!) If I had £1 for every time I have heard a manufacturer will build a GT version of a 'road' car that didn't happen I'd have well over £30! ;-)

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

GTE will depend entirely on whether they build sufficient road cars (plus a large amount of money of course!) If I had £1 for every time I have heard a manufacturer will build a GT version of a 'road' car that didn't happen I'd have well over £30! ;-)

If we count each repeated insistence for each non-occurrence, we could fund an LMP1 team off such claims.

[Coach Ep]

Might this be enough of an incentive to lure BMW back into LMP1?

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/f...brid-subclass/