Sportscar/GT (and Le Mans) Rumours and Repetition

[Graham Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

Might this be enough of an incentive to lure BMW back into LMP1?

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/f...brid-subclass/

No - 10mJ has been under consideration for a while - it's not the level of hybrid boost that interests BMW, it's the potential for a full EV platform - and the rules currently don't permit that in LMP1

[Graham Goodwin]

And on LMP1 continuity nobody knows - because, and lets be very, very clear about this, nobody yet knows how bad this is going to get financially for the VW group - Certainly it's above the pay grade of the motorsport top of the shops. Anyone counting anything in at the moment is jumping the gun.

[DistortedSmile]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

And on LMP1 continuity nobody knows - because, and lets be very, very clear about this, nobody yet knows how bad this is going to get financially for the VW group - Certainly it's above the pay grade of the motorsport top of the shops. Anyone counting anything in at the moment is jumping the gun.

Do you think the ACO has some sort of contingency in case of a VAG pullout?

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by DistortedSmile

Do you think the ACO has some sort of contingency in case of a VAG pullout?

Why would they?

I'd imagine that P2, or P1 light would become the defacto class until some other workaround could be found. It would really screw the "stock" P2 class fun.

[DistortedSmile]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

Why would they?

I'd imagine that P2, or P1 light would become the defacto class until some other workaround could be found. It would really screw the "stock" P2 class fun.

Don't they need at least 2 manufacturers in the top class to retain world championship status?

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

And on LMP1 continuity nobody knows - because, and lets be very, very clear about this, nobody yet knows how bad this is going to get financially for the VW group - Certainly it's above the pay grade of the motorsport top of the shops. Anyone counting anything in at the moment is jumping the gun.

Far be it from me to question someone who knows what they are talking about, but I thought that there was a case for a (admittedly very rough) upper limit on the total of the fines, recalls, etc? For instance, the maximum penalty that the EPA could impose of $33,750 per car?

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

No - 10mJ has been under consideration for a while - it's not the level of hybrid boost that interests BMW, it's the potential for a full EV platform - and the rules currently don't permit that in LMP1

Well who knows what all could be included when a worst-case-scenario-short-term-VAG-pull-out becomes reality and the ACO has to scramble for new manufacturers (aka "welcome BMW!") ???

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by DistortedSmile

Don't they need at least 2 manufacturers in the top class to retain world championship status?

GTWC had zero manufacturers, only "brands", and IIRC WTCC at it's worst has only had one officially recognized as such.

Of course if they recognized Oreca and Kodewa as manufacturers we'd already have six makes in LMP1, eight if in 2017 Strakka's new project and the the theoretical Glickenhaus were counted

[Rodger Davies]

WTCC has always had at least two, just it wasn't always one of them who won (Honda being official manufacturer champion in 2013 despite private Chevys winning everything). Remember, recent seasons all had Lada in.

VAG situation could affect many classes; WRC, R5 rallying, WEC/LM, TCR, GT3, GTE.

Does the ACO have a contingency? Probably little more than vague ideas, I don't think anyone was expecting this situation and realistically no-one currently knows where it will lead yet.

[TF110]

In the sc365 story, it seems Vasselon is concerned about the health of the championship regarding the VW situation. If another manufacturer steps into lmp1 in the next couple of years I think itll be solid.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by DistortedSmile

Don't they need at least 2 manufacturers in the top class to retain world championship status?

Toyota and Nissan?

[deggis]

Originally Posted by TF110

In the sc365 story, it seems Vasselon is concerned about the health of the championship regarding the VW situation. If another manufacturer steps into lmp1 in the next couple of years I think itll be solid.

The = http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/f...brid-subclass/ ?

[DistortedSmile]

Originally Posted by Rodger Davies

I don't think anyone was expecting this situation and realistically no-one currently knows where it will lead yet.

If would be foolish of them not to have planned for something like this, even without the VAG situation it's not like manufacturers pulling out en masse hasn't happened before.

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

Toyota and Nissan?

Well, Toyota said they didn't want to stay without competition IIRC and Nissan is still a big question mark IMO, but more than that, thinking about the long term health of the class, who knows if either of them would stick around for a prolonged period of time, that's something I'd expect more from Audi and Porsche if their programs aren't affected.

[Deleted]

It's been 15 years since the last "Great Manufacturer Escape" of 1999-2000, and only 3 years since the Pug Crisis. What were the consistency plans in those situations?

"Get Toyota here NOW" in minor 2012.

In the beginning of century IDK but they still had some makes
like Caddy and Panoz and whatnot in addition to Audi, plus obviously bigger lead class privateer field. ALMS was expanding to Europe and seemingly to Asia-Pacific as well so it didn't look too bad

[DistortedSmile]

Originally Posted by Chiana

It's been 15 years since the last "Great Manufacturer Escape" of 1999-2000, and only 3 years since the Pug Crisis. What were the consistency plans in those situations?

"Get Toyota here NOW" in minor 2012.

That's precisely my point, they didn't have any backup plan and lucked out on having a strong privateer field after the death of GT1 and had the already confirmed entry of Toyota after Peugeot pulled out, they don't have either of those things to fall back on right now and it would be really stupid of them not to have planned for a worst case scenario especially now that they have a world championship, because assuming the VAG situation goes to **** and either Toyota or Nissan leave, the series very quickly crumbles down, I don't even know what they could do right now if it all goes bad other than bending over for BMW and whoever else has shown interest and hope for the best. You'd think they'd learn from what has happened in the past and not be so reliant on the whims of manufacturers because as amazing as the cars are the situation is IMO not very sustainable.

[deggis]

Privateer-P1 looks bleak right now but with P2 becoming what it is becoming they're forcing the few bigger team-constructors to consider P1.

[deggis]

ACO plans new GT3 series for 2016 with Le Mans 24 Hours support race

... would race on the undercard of the European Le Mans Series and then fill one or both of the Saturday morning slots ahead of the 24 Hours usually reserved for one-make and historic events.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/121362

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by deggis

ACO plans new GT3 series for 2016 with Le Mans 24 Hours support race

... would race on the undercard of the European Le Mans Series and then fill one or both of the Saturday morning slots ahead of the 24 Hours usually reserved for one-make and historic events.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/121362

If they kill the Legends race just for some GT3s, there's going to be a riot.

[YorkshireLad]

^ditto

[Coach Ep]

So the ACO is finally admitting GT3 is a viable concept?

They're certainly on the expansion path aren't they? It all started with the LM24, now joined not only by the WEC but the ELMS and AsLMS as well, plus there's their P3 'project' (incl. a suggested new Asian 'proto light' series) and now this GT3 Am series (which could have the inspiration or has been inspired by IMSA's rumored GT3 Am series). Is the Audi R8 LMS Cup in Asia also organized by them?

Slowly but surely the ACO is becoming a conglomerate the size of NASCAR...

[Rodger Davies]

Sure ACO, that's just what Europe needs; another GT3 series. Please just leave it at the Blancpain ones.

[Deleted]

Group C is already confirmed for 2016 slot isn't it?

But GT3 support race. How exciting. I rather have the French Carrera Cup or Ferrari Challenge in the second slot than just another GT3 outing. And don't even consider Legends axing...

In ELMS weekends yeah have them there if you want, it's something to fill the weekends in addition to the Renault series, it's alright for that. Even of it's just another clone in mass. But not Le Mans

[Starfish Primer]

The Porsches last year made a good show, I would keep them. As the P3 cannot compete in LM24, it can be a good solution to have a P3 sprint race.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Starfish Primer

The Porsches last year made a good show, I would keep them. As the P3 cannot compete in LM24, it can be a good solution to have a P3 sprint race.

Yeah just like the LMPCs did in 2009.

It's nobrainer from ACO especially with their new proposed P3 supported series popping up everywhere.

DO THAT ACO.

Maybe FIA is putting pressure on ACO to have the GT3s there or whatever. Maybe Ratel has bribed or slep with some girl in committee.

[Mt. Lynx]

I think the ACO is slowly trying to get the audience used to GT3 AM's. I think they want to ditch GTE AM and replace it with a much cheaper GT3 AM in both LM24 and WEC.