Sportscar/GT (and Le Mans) Rumours and Repetition

[Deleted]

The Rebellion Oreca might be able to get below 800, but the CLM can barely do 850 and not a kg less (which is prob why they rechanged the minimum for that this year). With actual modern P2 even 850 could be pushing it.

The engine situation is not as simple as it sounds. Not only because of what Jay said, but also not all P2 chassis tubs might be able to take the P1 variations, not without considerable and expensive mods. And they are fuel restricted, not air restricted like in P2

What about internal components and electronics, I'm sure those wanting for this change would like to bring many of those from P2 too to save costs even further. How would they cope in P1 stress levels.. also since they are very much more designed to work in spec environments (and will be even more so in 2017), can they even be changed if it's been designed that way

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by GT3.14

Sebastien Loeb has split ways with Citroën for 2016. I hope we see him racing GTs and prototypes with Sebastien Loeb Racing in addition to his Dakar efforts.

Turns out Citroen actually fired him for some utterly bizarre reason, wtf? If he had stepped out voluntarily I think ACO participation would have been more likely (as something he wanted to do but had no time because if commitments), but now I dunno. I hope he does come though.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by J Jay

Apostrophes, please!

It's not about restrictions or no restrictions, Gibson or otherwise. My point is that if you build an engine (or any part of a car) to perform at a certain level, then suddenly asking for a lot more from it will cause problems. For instance, the uprated engine may not just present "typical" reliability issues, but there could also be knock-on effects on installation, electronics, suspension etc. At some point there's no more room for plasters.

As an aside, I'm starting to wonder about that Judd V10. In theory it's ideal but I don't think we've heard anything about it being picked up; it's no good sat on a shelf.

That's why I said it's not just straightforward. Of course there will be challenges, but the new p2's will have to be made to host the gibson. So while designing these new p2's, the manufacturer's can also take into consideration some may want to use their chassis for lmp1. That's why the discussion is taking place. And what of all those manufacturer's left out of the 4-make tender? Here's (maybe) a new market for your car. Plenty of apostrophes in there as well

[Acid09]

Peugeot is seemingly still toying with the idea of returning to LMP1.

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2015/1...ec-return.html

The first of their "requirements" will be the hardest to meet though. Not sure if PSA will be in a stable state at any point in the foreseeable future.

[Deleted]

They seem to give about the same statement every year. Just like Audi when it comes to F1...

I still don't understand the alleged situation where at the time of withdrawal Quesnel was given the option to still keep running for one year (/LM) and none afterwards, or get out immediately and maybe come back someday. That makes no sense in any situation, even if there was some truth in it: As there was not quarantee of anything anyway, why not then just do that final run...

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by Chiana

I still don't understand the alleged situation where at the time of withdrawal Quesnel was given the option to still keep running for one year (/LM) and none afterwards, or get out immediately and maybe come back someday. That makes no sense in any situation, even if there was some truth in it: As there was not quarantee of anything anyway, why not then just do that final run...

I think that was just a PR spin, If I recall correctly they actually sold off most of the LMP1 facilities shortly after. You don't do that if you plan on returning anytime soon.

It seemed more like the opponents of the LMP1 program within the company did everything they could to make sure a quick restart wouldn't be possible.

[Deleted]

Yes you are probably right.

[Artur]

I knew they had losses for several years after the 2008/9 crisis(or was it some other year?) and checked to see their 2014 financial report.

They are still losing money instead of having profit but, at least, the losses are being reduced: 2013:loss of €2.227 billions; 2014:loss of €555 millions

Their R&D investment was quite okayish, though : ~€2 billion(VAG spended €12.2b and Toyota €8.4b but those are two giants way ahead of all others). Daimler AG(Mercedes), who is quite healthy financially atm, spended €5.7 billion

Due to it's finances, I think it will still take lot's of years until we see Peugeot at Le Mans again. BMW, which is the main speculated manufacturer to join, has been having high profits and €4.5 billion investement on R&D, so that's really far more likely, financially-wise.

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by Artur

BMW, which is the main speculated manufacturer to join, has been having high profits and €4.5 billion investement on R&D, so that's really far more likely, financially-wise.

But less likely motivation-wise. Peugeot may not have the money yet but they seemingly have an itch to do it.

BMW has all the money in the world but they`re very hesitant in spending it. Honestly, if I had to put money on who of the two would return first, my money would be on Peugeot.

[Deleted]

I suspect that if (when) the current manufacturer bloom dries out and you have only one factory left at Le Mans, say by circa 2020, the lure to come back comes infinitely higher even if the costs for participating are still high. Because the chances for success become immediately higher, it is easier to sell the idea to the parent company. Also ACO likely becomes desperate enough to allow some exceptions to be made (like for Toyota 2012) Especially for French identity.

And by that time, the brand should be in better financial state (even if not great, still better than when they jumped the ship the first time)

[Deleted]

Dagys says Rebellion, Kolles and AMR are to test Dunlop rubber in coming days. Awesome news, we might get tire war back in all primary ACO classes next year beyond just LMP2!

DSC also said it, but mentioned only Rebellion.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Dagys says Rebellion, Kolles and AMR are to test Dunlop rubber in coming days. Awesome news, we might get tire war back in all primary ACO classes next year beyond just LMP2!

DSC also said it, but mentioned only Rebellion.

Rebellion is the only one testing for P1, AMR may for GTE. All are interested... there is a simple misunderstanding between them.

I doubt AMR goes away from Michelin.

[Artur]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Dagys says Rebellion, Kolles and AMR are to test Dunlop rubber in coming days. Awesome news, we might get tire war back in all primary ACO classes next year beyond just LMP2!

DSC also said it, but mentioned only Rebellion.

As cool as it would be to have lot's of tire manufacturers on WEC(like it is on SuperGT, where a Michelin car is the current double champion, btw), I think they will all stick with Michelin. Very likely that you'll only see Dunlops on the P2s as well.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

Rebellion is the only one testing for P1, AMR may for GTE. All are interested... there is a simple misunderstanding between them.

I doubt AMR goes away from Michelin.

You have evidence for this?

[TF110]

Its a dunlop test isnt it?

[Deleted]

Yes for four days.

It would be bizarre for Kolles in particular not to join, with their direct opponent getting all the data. Even if they shared it, it wouldn't be the same as having it in your own chassis. And they're already there present regardless with no hurry anywhere else...

Rebellion may have sit out the Sunday rookie test, but there wasn't much point for the Swiss to take part in that. Especially now with this extended trial run. And they're not in the business of seat hiring as much as Kolles may be.

AMR, ???

[Acid09]

VAG CEO Müller clarifies that no racing programmes will be cut, despite the VAG scandal:

http://www.motorsport-total.com/wec/...-15112304.html

The heads of each programs have just been asked to find ways of limiting costs (whatever that means) but the programs itself are not in doubt.

[YorkshireLad]

Food for Audi hospitality will be sourced by Aldi.

[Graham Goodwin]

Details of the first day of the Dunlop test later on DSC - 10 cars - Rebellion, Kolles, AMR, Strakka, Signatech, AF Racing (BR01) and Oak Racing were there (as was I!) - Edit - story up now - fascinating stuff!

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2015/1...tyre-test.html

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by Acid09

VAG CEO Müller clarifies that no racing programmes will be cut, despite the VAG scandal:

http://www.motorsport-total.com/wec/...-15112304.html

The heads of each programs have just been asked to find ways of limiting costs (whatever that means) but the programs itself are not in doubt.

Third cars are an easy elimination.

[Graham Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Acid09

VAG CEO Müller clarifies that no racing programmes will be cut, despite the VAG scandal:

http://www.motorsport-total.com/wec/...-15112304.html

The heads of each programs have just been asked to find ways of limiting costs (whatever that means) but the programs itself are not in doubt.

Sorry but that isn't true - what that analysis ignores are proposals for NEW programmes - and there there most certainly have been impacts across the group

[TheMightyM]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

Sorry but that isn't true - what that analysis ignores are proposals for NEW programmes - and there there most certainly have been impacts across the group

That’s not surprising -- new programs are usually the easiest cuts, as they offer large immediate cost savings and and little to no adverse publicity.

[Artur]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

Details of the first day of the Dunlop test later on DSC - 10 cars - Rebellion, Kolles, AMR, Strakka, Signatech, AF Racing (BR01) and Oak Racing were there (as was I!) - Edit - story up now - fascinating stuff!

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2015/1...tyre-test.html

Cheers, Graham This is the sort of article that I really cherish.

Graham, do you think there is any chance of Dunlop competing on LMP1 or GT in the next couple of years?

[chernaudi]

I don't think that 3rd cars for Audi or Porsche will be cut, as it seems that at least the 2016 budgets are safe--for now, at least.

Of course, anything that's totally new will likely come under scrutiny and subject to what VAG's boards see as a priority on a case by case basis.

It's also interesting to note, perhaps to complicate things, that Audi and to large degree Porsche's racing programs are heavily funded by those two companies' automotive R&D programs.

So new stuff for Audi and Porsche in racing beyond 2016/17 will be based on analysis based on cost and R&D value for the road car groups.

[Pole2Win]

I don't think the general, much less the racing public, cares, but a big reason of Audi's choice of diesel fuel at Le Mans was to advertise their diesel cars. With this scandal the advertising of diesel by VAG becomes ineffective.

Then again, I do believe this whole scandal has been completely blown out of proportion. It's difficult to calculate the environmental damage and it's not like emission-cheating software has killed the owners of these cars or directly caused damage to anyone else.