[Team] Haas: Gene Haas of NASCAR attempting to start F1 team

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by davyboy

I really don't know why this guy is getting so much flak. He has suggested an unorthodox way of operating an F1 team, is running various ideas around in his head and [if it ever comes to fruition] plans to spend several years at the back of the grid learning the ropes. Of the three 'new' teams that joined the fray nearly 5 years ago - one's gone and the other two have done nothing more than firmly cement their position at the back. That's despite the fact those two surviving teams are located in Britain.

Haas has the funding to bring his relatively modest ambitions to reality... and who are we to cast aspersions over how somebody spends their money ? If nothing else, it will hopefully enable two more drivers to gain F1 race experience without having to find a bag load of cash.

I think that it is because he seems to be changing his mind so frequently on how he intends to approach building his team. It's not exactly as the following, but it has some of the appearance of being so; that he just woke up one day, and told everyone that he had had a dream that he was going to start up a F1 team, and that he was going to follow the dream. Then, having made the announcement, he has actually come to the realisation that maybe it's just not quite as easy as he thought, so what we are reading about in the media is really just what is going through his mind, but instead of just keeping it there, he's actually explaining it to members of the media.

As to your point about bring two new drivers to the "sport", the bit about the cash is not really true. If for example, one of the chosen ones happens to turn out to be Miss Danica, then you would stretching credulity to it's limits. Yes, she is pretty swift but she's also just fairly pretty. Along with that latter attribute comes loads of dosh (translation for our American cousins, money) in the form of sponsorship. So in reality it's not the driver who needs the deep pockets, but those of their sponsors who are hanging on to their coat tails.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

I think that it is because he seems to be changing his mind so frequently on how he intends to approach building his team. It's not exactly as the following, but it has some of the appearance of being so; that he just woke up one day, and told everyone that he had had a dream that he was going to start up a F1 team, and that he was going to follow the dream. Then, having made the announcement, he has actually come to the realisation that maybe it's just not quite as easy as he thought, so what we are reading about in the media is really just what is going through his mind, but instead of just keeping it there, he's actually explaining it to members of the media.

First, you've made a series of assumptions about what he's been thinking which may or may not be correct... but certainly are completely irrelevant. Second, I don't believe that his press/media communication has done anything to offend or harm anyone... so again, what's the problem about what he's said ?

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

As to your point about bring two new drivers to the "sport", the bit about the cash is not really true. If for example, one of the chosen ones happens to turn out to be Miss Danica, then you would stretching credulity to it's limits. Yes, she is pretty swift but she's also just fairly pretty. Along with that latter attribute comes loads of dosh (translation for our American cousins, money) in the form of sponsorship. So in reality it's not the driver who needs the deep pockets, but those of their sponsors who are hanging on to their coat tails.

Why is the bit about the cash 'not really true' ? I don't recall him mentioning that he'll be requiring drivers to fund this venture... do you ? In terms of Danica Patrick driving, does it matter ? She's competent, experienced and certainly capable of what's required to handle a high speed single seater... which is all that's necessary here. That said, he's given no firm indication that he'd opt for her. Let's not forget, this will be a back of the grid team with back of the grid cars... exactly like Caterham and Marussia. All they need to do is stay out of the leaders' way !

[Casper]

Originally Posted by davyboy

I really don't know why this guy is getting so much flak.

When you find out why let me know. It is his money, let him spend it his way. Whatever he does no one can accuse him of lacking funds and he has been in big spending racing for a many years. It is not like the other could be's who come in and depend on other people coughing up to finish the season.

[Paradise City]

The spectacle of someone casually throwing away money rubs people the wrong way. This forum is designed for analysis. Bring the two together, and therein lies the flak Haas is currently getting. Simple.

Anymore questions?

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Being over here in quaint ye olde Engerland, we are somewhat removed from the fast moving world that is NASCAR. So my question would be, is Haas like this with his NASCAR team, or does he for that team only issue statements when they have some importance and relevance?

The man is not a fool, you don't build successfull business, own and run a NASCAR team because you don't know the first thing about succeeding in business or car racing..
I think much of what has been reported about the Gene Haas F 1 venture so far is pure codswallop..
We need to let him do his research and find his way..
I am sure that he will get good advice from people that know how hard the task is ....

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

The man is not a fool, you don't build successfull business, own and run a NASCAR team because you don't know the first thing about succeeding in business or car racing..
I think much of what has been reported about the Gene Haas F 1 venture so far is pure codswallop..
We need to let him do his research and find his way..
I am sure that he will get good advice from people that know how hard the task is ....

I am more than certain that the man is no fool.

The problem is that, as you say, the stuff being reported is probably a load of old codswallop, but it is all being attributed directly to him or his official spokesman. That, in the eyes of those who know a little about F1, makes some of the remarks seem to be somewhat foolish.

Don't get me wrong, I wish him all the luck in the world with his endeavours, but sometimes it is much better to do it out of the spotlight rather than issuing press releases on an almost daily basis.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

The spectacle of someone casually throwing away money rubs people the wrong way. This forum is designed for analysis. Bring the two together, and therein lies the flak Haas is currently getting. Simple.

Anymore questions?

If he wants to throw money around then good luck to him. It might rub you the wrong way but to others it is not a problem. You are reading too much into a lot of unproven media tripe.

[Catingaround]

It seems odd that racing fans would criticize someone who wants to spend his money on motor racing. You would think a NASCAR owner wanting to start an F1 team would be applauded and his journey enjoyed instead of being humbugged and criticized.

It happens a lot in sports cars as well, people immediately jumping on the person trying to make the grid, I will never understand it.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

I am more than certain that the man is no fool.

The problem is that, as you say, the stuff being reported is probably a load of old codswallop, but it is all being attributed directly to him or his official spokesman. That, in the eyes of those who know a little about F1, makes some of the remarks seem to be somewhat foolish.

Don't get me wrong, I wish him all the luck in the world with his endeavours, but sometimes it is much better to do it out of the spotlight rather than issuing press releases on an almost daily basis.

Motor sport is an expensive folly to be enjoyed by those who can afford it. It's how its always been. Haas falls into this category. It would only be foolish if he didn't have the means to do it.

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by Casper

If he wants to throw money around then good luck to him. It might rub you the wrong way but to others it is not a problem. You are reading too much into a lot of unproven media tripe.

People making an exhibition of themselves wasting money merits tough criticism, I will continue to do what I've always done and give that tough criticism, on the basis of what the man says himself, either until he sobers up and gets organised or more likely the team disappears into ether some time next year.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Being over here in quaint ye olde Engerland, we are somewhat removed from the fast moving world that is NASCAR. So my question would be, is Haas like this with his NASCAR team, or does he for that team only issue statements when they have some importance and relevance?

I don't follow NASCAR but I know he co-owns Stewart-Haas Racing with Tony Stewart, who won the 2011 Sprint Cup Championship but as to how the various reponsibilities and inner workings within the team are delegated, like issueing statements, I wouldn't know but I would hazzard a guess and say no.

[Paradise City]

Stewart-Haas drafts in Hendrick engines and does quite well out of that. He did strain his organisation to a 4th car to accommodate superfast bad boy Kurt Busch which apparently met with some resistance from Stewart. The team had a championship in 2011, with the help of the unusual chase format, with Stewart but doesn't do NASCAR with the same sheer intensity as the Hendrick establishment does which is probably the type of intensity you need for F1. F1 will be a far higher challenge for him.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

People making an exhibition of themselves wasting money merits tough criticism, I will continue to do what I've always done and give that tough criticism, on the basis of what the man says himself, either until he sobers up and gets organised or more likely the team disappears into ether some time next year.

Oh dear, tough keyboard talk there. Why don't you ring him and set him straight?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

Stewart-Haas drafts in Hendrick engines and does quite well out of that. He did strain his organisation to a 4th car to accommodate superfast bad boy Kurt Busch which apparently met with some resistance from Stewart. The team had a championship in 2011, with the help of the unusual chase format, with Stewart but doesn't do NASCAR with the same sheer intensity as the Hendrick establishment does which is probably the type of intensity you need for F1. F1 will be a far higher challenge for him.

I've just done a bit of research, as my NASCAR knowledge is very minimal and Haas bought the truck race facility from Hendrick Motorsport, before setting up Haas CNC Racing in 2002.

[321Go]

As for the drivers of choice, yes, I'm one of those odd people who would love to see Danica Patrick in one of the Haas cars. And I don't care if she finished last in every race for the first couple of years. It would still do the F1 circus a world of good just by her being on the grid.

And lets face it, Haas F1 is probably going to be at the back of the pack for the first year or two anyway. Danica Patrick would attract the other party (some say the ruling party) into the sport, and would have a huge effect to the ratings and customer base.

There is or have been other female F1 drivers, yes. But it's a little different with Danica. She's already a big name, with a massive following. Those followers are very likely to follow her to F1 if she made the transition. And will attract a lot more. Much, much more than a Chilton or a Ericsson ever could.

It's this 'boys only club' attitude from Bernie, and other men suffering from Monomania that will lead to the sports detriment. Time to change has long past.

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by Casper

Oh dear, tough keyboard talk there. Why don't you ring him and set him straight?

Why would I do that? This is a forum for robust discussion not an echo-chamber or a yes-club. You don't like direct commentary? Tough. I suggest you suck it up.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

Stewart-Haas drafts in Hendrick engines and does quite well out of that. He did strain his organisation to a 4th car to accommodate superfast bad boy Kurt Busch which apparently met with some resistance from Stewart. The team had a championship in 2011, with the help of the unusual chase format, with Stewart but doesn't do NASCAR with the same sheer intensity as the Hendrick establishment does which is probably the type of intensity you need for F1. F1 will be a far higher challenge for him.

The Stewart-Haas NASCAR team only began to work when the 'Stewart' side of that partnership brought himself, his engineering crew, his sponsor leads, his relationship with the Hendrick organisation amongst other things into a team that at that stage couldnt win a raffle if they bought all the tickets.

If you were to take the view that Mr Haas is doing something similar with the F1 project, aligning the power unit, transmission, rear suspension & some other design features of the car with the engine manufacturer is something very similar to the NASCAR experience

Except Mr Haas is to deal with the likes of Ferrari, who it has to be said, only achieved one race win in the modern era (Toro Rosso with Mr Vettel) with a customer powerplant. And given that Ferrari have underperformed to the market these past few years.. even though they have one of the best pilots on the grid, its hard to see how this might work.

Imagine buying Ferrari's cast-offs... that are binned because they dont work...

Especially when Caterham is just sitting there, ripe for the plundering, with design and manufacturing capability to respond to whatever is required.... along with American brandnames on the side no less (GE is about as American as you can get isnt it??)....

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Especially when Caterham is just sitting there, ripe for the plundering, with design and manufacturing capability to respond to whatever is required.... along with American brandnames on the side no less (GE is about as American as you can get isnt it??)....

I agree wholly, plus to everybody else saying its Mr Haas' money to waste if he wishes to, I can't see from any valuation that he has enough money to use a couple of hundred million dollars to run around at the back. Sure he can fund it and he has some connections but can he get sponsors on the side?

I think its also fair to say ALL of the sponsors on the Caterham are there because of Tony Fernandes and Air Asia...

Also I didn't realise he was in prison 2008-2009 for tax evasion.... Good mate for Bernie, then

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Mixer

I agree wholly, plus to everybody else saying its Mr Haas' money to waste if he wishes to, I can't see from any valuation that he has enough money to use a couple of hundred million dollars to run around at the back. Sure he can fund it and he has some connections but can he get sponsors on the side?

I think its also fair to say ALL of the sponsors on the Caterham are there because of Tony Fernandes and Air Asia...

Also I didn't realise he was in prison 2008-2009 for tax evasion.... Good mate for Bernie, then

I've done a bit more research on Mr. Haas and he was arrested by the IRS, that's the U.S. equivalent of HMRC, in 2006 for filing false tax returns and was was imprisoned in January 2008 and released on probation in May 2009 after serving 16 months of his 2 year sentence. An ideal pal.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I've done a bit more research on Mr. Haas and he was arrested by the IRS, that's the U.S. equivalent of HMRC, in 2006 for filing false tax returns and was was imprisoned in January 2008 and released on probation in May 2009 after serving 16 months of his 2 year sentence. An ideal pal.

Then maybe one day in the not too distant future, they will be able to sit in Bernie's motor-home in the celestial sky, and compare notes and swap anecdotes.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I've done a bit more research on Mr. Haas and he was arrested by the IRS, that's the U.S. equivalent of HMRC, in 2006 for filing false tax returns and was was imprisoned in January 2008 and released on probation in May 2009 after serving 16 months of his 2 year sentence. An ideal pal.

I wonder did he get tax advice from Bernie

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I've done a bit more research on Mr. Haas and he was arrested by the IRS, that's the U.S. equivalent of HMRC, in 2006 for filing false tax returns and was was imprisoned in January 2008 and released on probation in May 2009 after serving 16 months of his 2 year sentence. An ideal pal.

Yes, Stewart bought his stake for a dollar I seem to remember. Haas' life isn't boring that's for sure.

[321Go]

Danica Patrick: "Out of respect for Gene, if he came to me I would certainly listen, but I am almost getting too old to start a third career.”

[GTRMagic]

A Go Daddy Dallara Ferrari awaits?

[321Go]

News suggests Haas has had a change of mind (sort of) and will now have a base in the UK. In the heart of F1 country in fact. Not Italy or Germany as first planned.

North Carolina, US will still be HQ.