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6 Jun 2003, 03:38 (Ref:622470) | #1 | ||
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Looking to the Future : Jaguar
It's been a ricky ride so far at Jaguar. A number of Team bosses, Ford's inconsistant view of the team and the failed attempt to steal Adrian Newey.
Eddie Irvine had a mixed fortune, with some impressive results scattered between an otherwise poor performance. Some think he did a great job, others don't. Regardless, the results have never been their. 2002 was IMO the teams worst effort. After some radical changes 2 new rookies were signed and the team is in the middle of a rebirth. Apart from the obvious reliability problems, the team seem to taken a big step forward. Antonio has'nt been the star many thought, and rumours of his pending departure probably made things worse. Webber on the other hand has got on with the job and shown us the big cat purrs better than the previous K9. Now we have rumours that Wilson may end in the team, others have speculated DC, Ralf and even Wurz may partner Webber in 2004. Where to now for Jag? Can they make the next step forward? Is Webber the man to do it for them? Will Ford pull the plug before they get the chance? What should Jag do to join the big 3 in 2004? |
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#Keepfightingmichael |
6 Jun 2003, 03:46 (Ref:622476) | #2 | ||
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hard to say , you can just never tell with Jag , just when you think that they look like getting it right , it all falls over.
Webber has been impressive but thats it JUST impressive , the results are not coming and it must be worrying the head honcho's at Ford. I dont think Jag will join the big 3 next year , they dont have a hope renault are probably the 4th team in the "Big 3" if thats possible I just dont see jag getting things right this year or next but i hope im proved wrong and they can get genuine podiums this year , otherwise Webber would be better served getting out of there quick smart |
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In Loving memory of Peter Brock I hate it when im driving in a straight line & Seb Vettel runs into me GO THE MIGHTY HAWKS !!!! |
6 Jun 2003, 06:06 (Ref:622515) | #3 | ||
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I think Jaguar did the best things starting with a clean sheet at the end of last year. The whole effort had gone stale and backward. Now they could be on the verge of big things.
However, it will take time and that is one thing Ford will have to understand. There are no instant rewards when it comes to F1. But if the team are smart, they will stick with Webber. He's already got them listening to him and it's obvious it's working. He has the speed, the car is getting better, they just need some reliability and luck. |
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6 Jun 2003, 08:01 (Ref:622593) | #4 | |||||||
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Re: Looking to the Future : Jaguar
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Last edited by MiniMe; 6 Jun 2003 at 08:03. |
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Let no way be the way - let no limitation be the limitation! The late great Bruce Lee |
6 Jun 2003, 09:41 (Ref:622688) | #5 | ||
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I think, as has been said, 2004 will not be a breakthrough year. What Jag needs desperately is stability. Webber is a good choice, in my view; quick, dedicated, intelligent and charismatic. If he sticks around long enough, Jag could very much become 'his' team. Let's hope he can lead them forward.
As for their second seat, they either have to dump Pizzonia at the end of the year and sign someone else - Wilson? Wurz? Davidson? - on a three- or four-year deal (again, stability). And they have to take on a good test driver. |
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Interviewer: "Will the McLaren F1 be your answer to the Ferrari F40?" Gordon Murray: "Hmm... I don't think we have anyone at McLaren who can weld that badly..." |
6 Jun 2003, 09:58 (Ref:622697) | #6 | ||
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I think Jaguar have got it right in signing Webber for another couple of years because as well as being a talented driver his knowledge gives the team great feedback, i just hope Jaguar have implemented a long term strategy to go with the re-signing of Webber rather than the wait & see approach they've had since joining F1. As for the issue of the other driver i hope that when they sign the driver for 2004 they decide on a two year deal & give Webber & the new driver the full two years & then i think they'll start to deliver consistently good results & maybe challenge the top three.
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6 Jun 2003, 10:03 (Ref:622699) | #7 | |
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Already it's been proven that Webber is a thinkng, analytical driver who is not afraid of lots of very hard work. This will only be to his benefit- other teams are always watching.
Finishing the races is no problem for him, the driver, but developing the car so it does finish, and in the points is where he will earn his stripes. |
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Holden- How One Legendary Driver Earned Nine Permanent circuits- the life blood of motorsport |
6 Jun 2003, 11:35 (Ref:622764) | #8 | ||
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How long before they paint the Jags all white and simply call them Fords,must have more long term appeal having a car branded a Ford racing,and it would bring in millions more fans than running as Jag.The average Jag owner here would be a 60year old,white,male,wealthy person,whose probably a bit eccentric.Its probably that mental image that puts me off the Jag team.
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6 Jun 2003, 14:23 (Ref:622930) | #9 | ||
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Perhaps that's the image thay they're trying to change thru their involvement in F1? Plus the addition of the X-Type that's targeted @ a younger market -- younger than 60, that is.
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6 Jun 2003, 15:37 (Ref:622989) | #10 | ||
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"The future will be better tomorrow", as Dan Quayle so infamously put it.
Jaguar are now finally on the right track. The people in charge of the team are doing a good job, the car is clearly impressive, and Mark is a fine catch. All they need is stability, nothing radical on the design front, and they'll be threatening for wins by late next year. |
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6 Jun 2003, 22:59 (Ref:623390) | #11 | |
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I very much doubt they'll get anywhere near wins before Ford pull the plug on them - it's the unwritten law of F1 - the more money you throw at a burgeoning F1 project the results are the inverse...
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6 Jun 2003, 23:58 (Ref:623445) | #12 | ||
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Why is it every Jag thread seems to be an excuse to slag them off. Pull the plug this & wont do anything that. Jaguar are getting their act together. The right people are in place and Webber is a great asset. Jungle Boy? A good driver but time will tell. The stability is already there, the results will come. And why do people seem to think Bill Ford sits at his desk with his finger over the button waiting to blow Jaguar's plans out of the water? The budget is no longer a bottomless pit so he's happy. He was only worried about the fact the Irvine was the highest paid employee at Ford and didn't know who he was.
They are getting there, but to expect for overnight success is like asking the next President of the United States to sought out the economy in a week after 4 years of Bush. Steve B |
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7 Jun 2003, 00:29 (Ref:623475) | #13 | ||
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I think people respect Jag more...
Everyone can see that Jag now has the foundations to be an excellent team (GREAT engingeers, great minds and atmosphere) so seems like other teams are starting to get afraid of the time when Jag gets the reliability its after (PLS PLS PLS PLS). This was never supposed to be a year where Jag could start challenging the top 3 or 4 teams. But I think they've surprised themselves and others, so the expectations put on them have become higher. People now expect them to be in the top 5 or something? They never expected that in the beginning of the year, I don't think. Yeah it's frustrating seeing DNF's or if Webber and Pizza dont get in the top 10 in qualy. But only coz our expectations have been raised because of what they have acheived (?? :confused: ?? ...u get my drift , i hope). p.s. is Bill Ford a fan of f1? HAPPY LONG WEEKEND TO THE AUSSIES!!! |
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And how r u doin? *wink* |
7 Jun 2003, 06:12 (Ref:623593) | #14 | ||
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Seriously, apart from the Webber and Jaguar diehards, did anyone seriously expect them to be better than anyone than Minardi this year?
And look at the results. Webber has stunned many in qualifying (especially on Fridays so dont tell me it's low fuel). This Jag has some pace. When they get the reliablility to match that pace they will easily be the 5th bet team this year. And who the hell would have thought that? |
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7 Jun 2003, 10:43 (Ref:623749) | #15 | ||
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I think Jaguar are putting in place the foundations of long-term success, but it will take time.
And, call me crazy, but I still think dumping Bobby Rahal was the stupidest thing they did. |
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7 Jun 2003, 12:33 (Ref:623824) | #16 | ||
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Jaguar are definitely on the up, despite what a lot of people with their own agendas want you to think. They are also becoming more self-sufficient and not relying on papa Ford's generosity. If anything Ford have done the right thing by cutting the budget and getting rid of the self-serving egos, and putting real professionals in place.
Having Webber in their car is turning out to be a great coupe; now they need another quick driver who is a more consistent than Pizzonia. Pizzonia may be quick but it is too sporadic, and you can't develop a car with inconsistent feedback. A dedicated tester would be helpful, someody like an Allen McNish. Jaguar need both cars to be pushed like Webber is pushing them; but overall I am starting to feel really good about Jaguar! |
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A torrential afternoon practice session in Watkins Glen saw Villeneuve out-qualify everyone. By 11 seconds.Scheckter stated: "I scared myself rigid that day, I thought I had to be quickest. Then I saw Gilles's time and - I still don't really understand how it was possible. Eleven seconds !" |
7 Jun 2003, 13:54 (Ref:623859) | #17 | |||
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A torrential afternoon practice session in Watkins Glen saw Villeneuve out-qualify everyone. By 11 seconds.Scheckter stated: "I scared myself rigid that day, I thought I had to be quickest. Then I saw Gilles's time and - I still don't really understand how it was possible. Eleven seconds !" |
7 Jun 2003, 13:57 (Ref:623863) | #18 | ||
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Jordan are not doing better, unless luck is better.
Jordan have Fisi and reliability. If Jag start finishing races, only the top 4 will finish in front of them. |
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#Keepfightingmichael |
7 Jun 2003, 14:11 (Ref:623870) | #19 | ||||
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Quote:
Once Jaguar were a respected company - winning Le Mans and Touring car events, but now they are just a joke. Quote:
My prediction; with a combination of good luck and good driving, Webber will get a podium this year and Jag fans will rush to tell everyone how this means Jag have finally turned the corner..... until the realists point out that Irvine got a podium last year with the horrible R3 (Monza I think) and the year before too (Monaco?), and nothing much has really changed. Last edited by alfasud; 7 Jun 2003 at 14:15. |
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7 Jun 2003, 14:16 (Ref:623876) | #20 | ||
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C'mon alfasud, as a former Jag joke maker, I can see the car is much faster than anything else they have produced.
Yes Irvine got 2 podiams, but they were either very lucky or on the one track that suited the car. Jag has never consistantly shown the pace that this years car has. |
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#Keepfightingmichael |
7 Jun 2003, 14:22 (Ref:623879) | #21 | ||
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Hey Wrex, I predicted a podium.... given that we're close to mid season and they're having difficulty finishing a race, I'd say that I'm being optimistic.... how many podiums do you think they'll get?
Yes they have some pace this year, but it's no use if you can't finsh a race. Last edited by alfasud; 7 Jun 2003 at 14:24. |
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7 Jun 2003, 14:27 (Ref:623885) | #22 | |||
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I'm not sure they will get a podaim this year (given the reliability of the top 4), but they are more deserving of one now than previous years. I think they can move forward, but it's a long road ahead. |
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#Keepfightingmichael |
7 Jun 2003, 14:29 (Ref:623888) | #23 | |||
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n. pl. coups (kz) A brilliantly executed stratagem; a triumph. I think you get the idea sorry my poor spelling threw you. As for the reliability; I think someone once said that it is better to make a quick/unreliable car reliable rather than a reliable/slow one quicker. I don't think anyone with a grasp of reality is predicting them to be world beaters straight away; but you have to see they are making definite progress. As for Ford throwing more money at them. I don't think you heard me say that; if anything Ford's cutting of the budget has made the team a more cohesive unit. |
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A torrential afternoon practice session in Watkins Glen saw Villeneuve out-qualify everyone. By 11 seconds.Scheckter stated: "I scared myself rigid that day, I thought I had to be quickest. Then I saw Gilles's time and - I still don't really understand how it was possible. Eleven seconds !" |
7 Jun 2003, 14:35 (Ref:623889) | #24 | ||
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Sorry about the coup/coupe thing enemy-ace - I just couldn't resist. As for the budget.... maybe they should cut it down to Jordan levels
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7 Jun 2003, 14:48 (Ref:623893) | #25 | ||
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No worries alfasud For Jag to get their budget down to Jordan levels though wouldn't they have to face near financial ruin first
Actually maybe they could hire Eddie irvine back, because lord knows the return on investment there was hardly beneficial. Last edited by enemy-ace; 7 Jun 2003 at 14:50. |
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A torrential afternoon practice session in Watkins Glen saw Villeneuve out-qualify everyone. By 11 seconds.Scheckter stated: "I scared myself rigid that day, I thought I had to be quickest. Then I saw Gilles's time and - I still don't really understand how it was possible. Eleven seconds !" |
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