Daytona 507.5 (spoiler)

[rush1]

This years Daytona 500 had a crash at the end of the race, maybe lap 198. Extra laps were added to the 500 miles in order to get a green flag finish

I know this deals with a NACAR event but I want to relate it to racing in general. I thought the point of having a 500 mile event was that, you know, it was 500 miles. To tak on additional miles at the end to achieve a green flag finish cheapens the product, in my opinion.

I hope its bevavior not emulated in oval or road tracks in the IRL, CART and F1.

[drdisque]

well, F1 doesn't usually bring out the safety car at the end of races like that, if there's an accident that warrants the safety car close to the end, they just throw the red and checker.

Also, this practice hasn't been without controversy in NASCAR, a lot of people don't like it but the general fan seems to.

[StuiE]

I'd rather a green finish personally, so what if it goes a little longer, nothing is worse then finishing under yellow.

[captain crunch]

Originally Posted by gtr69

nothing is worse then finishing under yellow.

Except maybe running out of fuel while leading lap 201 of a 200 lap race.......

[ascarmarshal]

Originally Posted by captain crunch

Except maybe running out of fuel while leading lap 201 of a 200 lap race.......

That is what the Crew Chief is paid for. He has to take into account the possability of a Green White Chequer finish when doing his fuel sums

[dubby99]

As we have talked about this time and time again if it weren't for the fans in the stands a bigtime series like nascar would not be seen on the radar, so nascar in all it's power are going to do what ever it takes to make fans happy and satisfied regardless of what happens to the race distance or laps completed.

[racer69]

For me personally,

If it's a 200 lap race, it's a 200 lap race, who ever is first past the post at the end of the 200th lap, whether it be under green or yellow, should be the winner.

Anything different is abit of a farce and hard to take seriously IMO.

At least Jimmie Johnson had the lead on lap 200........

[rustyfan]

Originally Posted by racer69

Anything different is abit of a farce and hard to take seriously IMO.

Nothing like having an easy stab at NASCAR served on a silver plate eh?

Personally I have no problem with a desire to get a race to finish under green. The fans in the stands want it, and so do the drivers (well, those not running first anyway ) as it gives 'em a chance to actually race for the win (especially since NASCAR has banned racing back to the yellow).

Speaking of the fans, it was their reaction to several yellow-flag finishes that made NASCAR to introduce the green-white-checkers rule, and who knows, perhaps if US-based open-wheel racing cared as much about the product and its fans it might not have to get beat by just about everything in the TV-ratings.

[rush1]

NASCAR believes its fan are not sophisticated enuogh to realize some races, primarially long distance oval races end under yellow? So they try to script an ending under green?

Are we talking professional auto racing or professional wrestling?

[rustyfan]

Originally Posted by rush1

NASCAR believes its fan are not sophisticated enuogh to realize some races, primarially long distance oval races end under yellow? So they try to script an ending under green?

Are we talking professional auto racing or professional wrestling?

So you are basically saying that NASCAR tells/forces the drivers to crash into each other on purpose in order to produce the gwc-finishes? Right.

On a side-note it's not a matter about NASCAR believing the fans "aren't sophisticated enough" to realize the concept of a race finishing under yellow; it's NASCAR reacting to the fact that most people in the stands and at home in front of the TV prefer to see a race go down to the wire and finish under green.

It would be different when it comes to Champ Car or Formula 1 though, of course, since the majority of all those "sophisticated" races rarely end with close finishes.

[D70s]

Green White Checker is fine, but I think they should red flag the race if they want to get it, rather than running extra laps.

[ascarmarshal]

Originally Posted by D70s

Green White Checker is fine, but I think they should red flag the race if they want to get it, rather than running extra laps.

That used to happen until a couple of years ago. NASCAR used to give a lap number which before that lap eg 195 of 200 lap race the red would thrown to try and get a green flag finish. The green white chequer finish has been used in CTS for many yeras. I like the idea

[racer69]

Originally Posted by rustyfan

Nothing like having an easy stab at NASCAR served on a silver plate eh?

Personally I have no problem with a desire to get a race to finish under green. The fans in the stands want it, and so do the drivers (well, those not running first anyway ) as it gives 'em a chance to actually race for the win (especially since NASCAR has banned racing back to the yellow).

Speaking of the fans, it was their reaction to several yellow-flag finishes that made NASCAR to introduce the green-white-checkers rule, and who knows, perhaps if US-based open-wheel racing cared as much about the product and its fans it might not have to get beat by just about everything in the TV-ratings.

What about the integrity of the whole thing?

The race is advertised as a 200 lap, 500 mile race. What is you placed a bet on a race, in which there is a 'green-white-checker (gwc)' finish. Your driver had been leading on lap 200, but the 'gwc' meant it ran 202 laps, and he lost the lead in those laps. Wouldn't you feel abit cheated? What if you were the actual driver, you had won the 500 mile race, as it is advertised, yet someone had decided to make it 507 miles for the sole reason of having a green flag at the finish.

This is motorsport, you roll with what happens. How often is there a crash near the end anyway?

What is next, the fans start complaining that their favourite drivers are retiring from the races too early and want a way to let them re-enter races

[ascarmarshal]

Originally Posted by racer69

What is next, the fans start complaining that their favourite drivers are retiring from the races too early and want a way to let them re-enter races

They already have that in the WRC

[mandretti39]

NASCAR does it too. If a guy damages his car, his crew can bring the car behind the wall to the garage and fix as much of the damage as possible and let him return to the race. They may be 10 laps down and have no chance of winning, but if the driver can finish the race, he will get points. In NASCAR, everybody scores points as long as they finish.

[rustyfan]

Originally Posted by mandretti39

NASCAR does it too. If a guy damages his car, his crew can bring the car behind the wall to the garage and fix as much of the damage as possible and let him return to the race. They may be 10 laps down and have no chance of winning, but if the driver can finish the race, he will get points. In NASCAR, everybody scores points as long as they finish.

Uhh, they are not the same thing - in WRC you can retire, get your car repaired overnight and then return the next day. In NASCAR you are not retired until you have deemed the damage too severe to fix, and if you decide to fix it you have, obviously depending on how much left of the race there is, just a few hours to get it fixed enough to maintain minimum speed out on the track when you return (if not you'll be parked & retired by NASCAR).

[drdisque]

in NASCAR, everybody scores a point as long as they start, they don't have to finish

same goes with the current IRL rules.

[racer69]

What i was getting at was that getting drivers who had retired from the race back in with an actual chance of victory, not just puttering around to score points (which i don't agree with either, if your not in the first 10, you don't deserve any points), because the fans will complain their favourite drivers are losing a chance at victory........

[drdisque]

Series give every driver that starts points for 2 reasons, first is to make it not as big of a hit to DNF so that a good driver on a good team can't be put out of the championship from a few bad races. Second is to give the slower teams incentive to show up, a race with 14 cars is no fun.

[racer69]

All the FIA sanctioned championships only offer points down to 8th place, yet plenty more competitors show up.

Back in the late-80s (start of the 3.5ltr NA formula), when Grand Prix's only offered points down to 6th, 40 cars would at times be attempting to qualify (or pre-qualify).

[drdisque]

Grand Prix also was much cheaper back then (even adjusted for inflation). Some of those cars were just skinny fiberglass tubs with sports car engines strapped to the back of them and a wing on tip.

Once the heavy safety regulations showed up following Senna's death, open wheel racing in general became much more expensive.

[Jordi]

I think that no drivers feal cheated if they lose the lead in a green-white-checker finish. They're racing in NASCAR, they know the rules, so if they felt cheated for losing a win under g-w-c conditions maybe they should race somewhere else.

It's a bit similar to Stewart complaining about bump drafting at Daytona and Talladega... if he don't like it he should be back to the IRL or something. As Dale Jr. said, they get paid quite well for racing in NASCAR.