Which engine in the Banana Joe #30?

[climacus]

At the Mosport ALMS race last week I was transfixed by the engine sound of the Intersport Banana Joe #30. According to the ALMS website, it has a Judd engine. Does anyone have any details about this car? It literally sounded like an Indy car everytime it goes by, very intoxicating.

[Graham Goodwin]

It is/was a 4 litre Judd V10

The car has though now been replaced in the Intersport camp by a Yates engined R&S IIIC

[skycafe]

Actually the ALMS website listed the car as an R & S Elan, so now I am curious about the engine builder.

It does seem a shame to lose the sound of the Judd v10 from the mix, hopefully someone will come along and fill the gap. But it would seem riduculous to speculate that Intersport would fit the Judd to the R & S. I think the torque of the big Ford V8 will be a big advantage.

[Hauptmann6]

Yes they changed to Yates power before Sebring. I bet Sara just missed updating that.

And the Judd sounds great, but it lacks a little in the reliability department.

[Graham Goodwin]

Its been pretty reliable over the last couple of years - I don't think we've had a Judd engine failure at LM since 2001

[Tim Northcutt]

You're right, Graham Goodwin, on the Judd...it has been very reliable over the past 2 years (the 4.0 L version)....Doran/Lista was running the 5.0L Judd when they raced in Grand Am alst year and ALMS earlier this year...they had initial problems last year, but no engine problems I can recall this season (but they ran only 3 races this year before Herbert punted their car at Sonoma and they stopped running their ALMS car -- at least for now -- but I don't expect them back...)

The R&S that Intersport ran yesterday does have the Yates power....they bought the Matthews Racing cars lock, stock and barrel...according to FastDetails, one of the two chassis still had the Le Mans stickers on it and gravel in the chassis from LM this year...Filed put the car on a trailer last week in Indy and hauled it straight up to Road America to run it...

[RacingManiac]

On Mosport friday, that #30 car had a engine failure....I think it's a engine failure as smokes just comes out and the car parked between turn one and two....

[gttouring]

the Mg lola banana joe?
i thought it had an MG

[Hauptmann6]

They had 2 cars, the old Lola Judd and the MG.

I thought I had seen the Judd blow up other than at Mosport.

[Graham Goodwin]

And remember that the 675 and 900 cars were MG lola and lola MG respectively - the Judd is now badge engineered as an MG X Power

[FIRE]

Why are some Judd engines badged as a MG X Power? The ones of RfH and Courage have still the badge Judd.

[Kurt Maxwell]

I wonder if Field will just give the MG he is leasing back and run both MK3C's in "04 ?

There are also some in the sport who wonder if they will run anything.

[Fogelhund]

I would speculate that you may be right Kurt. Assuming that the R&S is nearly on pace of the MG, and should be infinitely more reliable, it certainly makes sense.

As far as leasing, you are referring to their Chamberlain car?

Is their car not to be fixed?

As far as not running anything, I just don't see how that makes any sense. Why would they purchase two R&S's at this juncture of the season if they didn't plan on running them next year?

[Kurt Maxwell]

There should be news soon concerning what is happening with Field.

[greenbean]

they should be getting the repaired chassis back for the miami race .the engine they are using inthe 30 car is anelan power products engine

[Graham Goodwin]

Originally posted by FIRE
Why are some Judd engines badged as a MG X Power? The ones of RfH and Courage have still the badge Judd.

There is a badging deal with MG - In theory all of the Judd V10s (and indeed all of the company's other engines) should be referred to as MG X-Power

[FastJoel31]

Originally posted by RacingManiac
On Mosport friday, that #30 car had a engine failure....I think it's a engine failure as smokes just comes out and the car parked between turn one and two....

I thought they lost a gearbox? I remember walking around the paddock Friday after the test sessions and they didnt look like they were changing an engine....they did have a new set of gears waiting to be installed sitting on the car though...

[vwpilot]

Actually the R&S that Intersport has is running the Elan engine. Matthews ran the Yates engine when they were running it, but Intersport has gone back to the Elan powerplant in hopes of having it be more reliable.

That is info right from someone at R&S btw, not speculation.

[Hauptmann6]

Fast Joe, it might have been, but it looked like an engine from my vantagepoint on turn 6. This is sunday not practice...

[FastJoel31]

Originally posted by Hauptmann6
Fast Joe, it might have been, but it looked like an engine from my vantagepoint on turn 6. This is sunday not practice...

Ahhh yes ok...thought we were talking about Friday afternoon test session. The car stopped between turns 1 and 2 Friday as well as Sunday.

[Tim Northcutt]

Thanks for the insight, vwpilot....

BTW....it is my understanding that Elan had some portions of their engine (the heads, maybe???) designed by Yates....

but that would make sense to have the Elan for reliability...and they could've gootten the engine from matthews, who had and Elan in it last year anyway....

[noise boy 2]

As a point of clarification, all of the engines, Yates, Elan, Lozano, share the same ford windsor architecture inside which is a pushrod v-8 displacing 6 liters in this instance. The differences in the various motors are in the rotating assemblys, the cam specs, and the porting on the cylinder heads. Robert

[Tim Northcutt]

Since older threads sometimes get removed in order to save space and to keep the forum current:

We discussed that in the "Next Generation of Ford Engines in Sportscars" thread a couple of months ago....

The Lincoln is called a Lincoln due to an allowance to badge the same 351 Windsor basis tha makes up all three in that way

It also was the starting point or main topic that began the thread "Lincoln Engine -- Why Bother", and rasied the issues concerning who is actually building your engine as being the really critical factor for getting the most out of it...

I'm the guy who started those threads, and we had a lot of insightful discussion and ideas presented by many on this forum....

Thanks for re-stating that, noise boy 2....newer members or others who may have forgotten those important points may not have been aware of that...

[vwpilot]

I think the Yates and the Elan are more differnet than you think. This is a quote that I saw from a R&S employee regarding the engines.

Just so everyone is clear - the car has reverted to Elan Power. It is a 6.0L pushrod engine not an OHC Ford Modular (DP) (4.6-5.4L).

The Yates motor from '99 was quite a bit different. I can't speak to the actual internals but it had the Zytek intake rather than the Kinsler we ran and Zytek engine management being set up by Elan personnel instead of Pectel being set up by Yates (and the Pectel unit is superior).

And this was what I always thought, the Yates is an OHC engine while the Elan is a pushrod engine. Big difference.

And just to clarify, both of these were obtained from another discussion forum. I just dont want to give the impression that I have some exclusive info or connection to R&S.

[Tim Northcutt]

In the earlier-mentioned threads in this forum on this subject, we talked alot about the 1999 Yates motor that was part of the Panoz car before their LMP 900 was developed....and how it was different

Noise boy 2 is referring to the Yates 6.0 L that ran in the Matthews R&S this year....from everything we had read and found out at that time when we conversed in those older threads, the Yates 2003 engine in the Matthews car was supposedly based on the 351 Windsor, and was in fact a different engine than the Yates 1999 engine that they built for Panoz (as you have correctly stated)...

But our info that we read about the 2003 Yates engine in the Matthews car could have been wrong....

Did the other forum state that the Matthews car was racing the Yates engine based on their 1999 powerplant that they built for Panoz, or indicate that the matthews engine was derived from that same OHC Ford (4.6L - 5.4L)????

We also discussed that engine as the "Next Generation of Ford Engine" that should replace the pushrod version...

If you have info that clarifies this for us, please steer us to the forum that has this info, or any sites where we can see it as well....



BTW...some of the people who were hired by Panoz to begin the whole Elan Performance division of engine building were hired away from Yates, and were involved in the building of that 1999 engine....