360MRC, next time (2011) - Discussion re Car Eligibility etc

[John Turner]

Notwithstanding my conversation with John and Claire last Sunday, I'm having second thoughts about M3s and Cossies. Still not sure that we need to let them in.

[Lancsbreaker]

Originally Posted by andy97

It's a fair question, Terry, but the MX5s, Mk2 MR2s & most of the FCs were not eligible due to being post 1986. Several Swinging Sixties & FC cars were not allowed because the were over 3.5 litres or turbos.

Precisely....our car was ineligible on the grounds of being an '88 and having a turbo.....I know Claire contacted me late on to invite us to the Invitation class (naturally) but of course at that stage budgets etc were already fixed (if not stretched......)

A little OT, but it might help in getting people to think about future events if some of those who did participate in this year's race could give a realistic (tho obviously "ballpark") figure for what the event cost - we know the entry fee, but what were the on-day costs - fuel/tyres/extra wheels(??) etc and what were the extra costs of prep - special fueling churns / modded exhausts / big block under the accelerator to prevent over-revving, that sort of thing? I'm just thinking that some people might perceive it as being "too expensive" without much by way of proper data.....tho' I'm not expecting it to be cheap

[SAMD]

Yes, what way was the refueling done? That is a bit I am unsure of.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by SAMD

Yes, what way was the refueling done? That is a bit I am unsure of.

It's all in the regs on 360 website. Nothing expensive, just the Sunoco style churns or similar. They are around £30 which is same as a cheap jerrycan. Important bit is the filler into tank- that can make all the difference- the Corolla struggled whereas the Jag was 'optimised'.

[Lancsbreaker]

I've just realised that a few of the "cost questions" are discussed in one of the many other threads...in the National racing" lounge....and its useful info....but I suspect to really promote the event some sort of "Facts pack" might be a useful tool to encourage people to make an informed decision on entering.

Of course now 360 has a "track record" (groan) the event can be more confidently promoted in plenty of time to allow people to build it into their plans

[SAMD]

This is true, it is no longer 'notional'

[terence]

One thing that was apparent whilst observing some of the re-fuelling was the number of people who were using a standard tank and still using the standard vent. For the Dump type churns I think it advisable to utilise a ventilation system of at least a 20 mm id,this should be enough to let the air out fast enough to take full advantage of churn fuelling.

[Ed Simpson]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

The Jag was driven consistently very well and had one big advantage over some others- a 110 litre fuel tank in the boot floor which could take a churn of fuel much quicker than a standard hatchback type filler. Of course it would have been 'victory for the little guy' if the Pug had won, and having a lot of happy memories rallying them (plus the odd scar!) it would suited me! However, lap times between it, Jag, Corolla and RS2000 were not that different.

Just concentrate on consistency and reliability..........

Hi All
Firstly what a great day had by all and extra special for us as it led to our first team victory.
Other than our fantastic driving ( especially Russell's who managed to keep her going with 'the back axle hanging off') the time spent in the pits ( or lack of it! )was the key to success.
We were doing hourly driver changes so no real advantage with the big tank also regs stated that we could only put 60 litres in at a time which is pretty much what we were burning per hour anyway!!
The "HOT ROD JAG!!" also put in the second fastest lap time, beaten only by Mikes fantastic Escort that was running slicks....
Consistency and reliablity were the words of the day and the 53 year old Jag had both until the last 45mins when something gave way on the back axle which kept us in the pits for 9 laps and nearly let the unstoppable Pug catch up.
Not many races are that close over that time and with the Pug munching 6 seconds each lap it was going to be pretty close until Russell changed his driving style to allow for the wobbly back end and got his times back down to 1.30 ish.

The atmosphere in the pit lane was electric and we honestly thought it was going to go to the wire, if we could even keep her going!


Just a bit of info for anyone thinking of entering next year.
My Jag is prepared to run in the CSCC's Swinging sixties series and has done a whole seasons racing (15 plus hours!!) with nothing more than spanner checks and oil changes. Not bad for a old girl. She was also prepared over 15 years ago!
We also could of just about finished the race on one set of Tyres, so anything that can run for an hour'ish on fuel and can keep going is in with a real chance of challenging our title.... We learnt a few other things on the day to tweek us next year but will be keeping those to ourselves!!

A really fantastic day and to be honest if you look at other events that last for half an hour and still have all the associated costs of travel, car prep each race etc etc the "360" represents good value for money.

So get your get your entries in early and show support for Claire and her team and I look forward to a full grid next year.

Many thanks to Claire, John and all the other teams that took part.

[Ed Simpson]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

It's all in the regs on 360 website. Nothing expensive, just the Sunoco style churns or similar. They are around £30 which is same as a cheap jerrycan. Important bit is the filler into tank- that can make all the difference- the Corolla struggled whereas the Jag was 'optimised'.

Like the careful wording Mike, you are right to a point though. Most of the other cars had to put much less fuel in than us and we had to remove and secure our bootlid each time.

[Peter Mallett]

lol,

Welcome to 10ths Ed.

I still haven't got to the bottom of our lack of speed, but I usually burn between 55 and 60 litres in a one hour race at Snet. Last weekend we were burning 40! Can't just have been the choked exhaust.

[John Turner]

Welcome Ed, great post, and well done on hard won victory.

[iconway]

re refueling, we had a couple of blue pressurized churns ready but after David explained how he covered himself in unleaded while practising his pit-stop we switched to our back-up churns because we had a standard filler. I suspect the answer is we all have boot-mounted tanks if refueling is to be by dump churn, which isn't a problem (although the Lancia would need modifying if we wanted to enter it again).

As for eligibility, Peter's list is a great starting point. I had a mint GS/E not so long ago which would have been perfect for the 360 (GS/Es won the first two Willhires back to back) but there was nowhere to race it so I sold it. Try finding one now, grr! I've never owned one but a 2-litre Sierra or Mk2 Golf should be a safe bet for 6 hours? Just as with Spa, if you want to win, first you have to FINISH, and finishing in itself is a major triumph. Finally, I couldn't agree more with Claire, keep App K cars OUT of the 360 - from the very start it was intended for cars that weren't eligible for Spa, so please let's keep it that way.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Ed Simpson

Like the careful wording Mike, you are right to a point though. Most of the other cars had to put much less fuel in than us and we had to remove and secure our bootlid each time.

Hi Ed, good that you have joined in- welcome to tenths and well done on getting past finish line first!

There are pros & cons for all refuelling methods but certainly your set up looked the best there. Helps to have a car with boot, though! Maybe hinges on the bootlid would help that part of the operation!

Terry is right about venting the tank- look at pictures of 70's ETCC cars or other endurance racers and they have an outlet same size as inlet. The ETCC cars had them set in bootlid- full churn went on one and a breather churn on other if I am thinking correctly?

Look forward to doing battle next year Ed- I will be in a more suitable car with same tyres as everyone else!

Mike

[midgetman]

>>>>>>>The "HOT ROD JAG!!"

Sorry Ed, it wasn't meant to be disparaging, as a former Hot Rod MG Midget owner I love that car It's just a little wry joke using terminology favoured by some contributors here who prefer to keep things "original".

Your car and my old one are EXACTLY the sort of thing I enjoy - sympathetic modifications totally in the spirit of club racing in the day. And I think that sums up the ethos of the 360 as well.

[Moosehead]

Originally Posted by terence bower

I have to ask where the above mentioned got to for the 15th Aug.

My car wasn't legible, thats my excuse

[SAMD]

I asked somewhere a wee while ago about how the noise levels are measured. What I am trying to get at is, if I am running a V6 engine and I bring the exhausts out, one on each side, where does the decibel meter measure from? 1 meter behind the car? 1 meter from each exhaust? Surely if all other things are equal, in those circumstances it should give a lower reading than a straight 4?

[Ed Simpson]

Originally Posted by SAMD

I asked somewhere a wee while ago about how the noise levels are measured. What I am trying to get at is, if I am running a V6 engine and I bring the exhausts out, one on each side, where does the decibel meter measure from? 1 meter behind the car? 1 meter from each exhaust? Surely if all other things are equal, in those circumstances it should give a lower reading than a straight 4?

That's a really good question and one for the experts. We had noise issues on Sunday and we were thinking of doing a similar thing... The Jag runs side pipes that both exit on the left, we were going to redirect one to underneath the other side hoping it would quieten things down on the left.
Thankfully the geniuses from Mallett Racing had an easier solution involving scouring pads, long pokey things and bits of wire. It just got us under the 105 but I think we shot three marshalls on the first lap!!

[andy97]

Originally Posted by Ed Simpson

It just got us under the 105 but I think we shot three marshalls on the first lap!!

Thought it was 95 dB?

[Ed Simpson]

Originally Posted by midgetman

>>>>>>>The "HOT ROD JAG!!"

Sorry Ed, it wasn't meant to be disparaging, as a former Hot Rod MG Midget owner I love that car It's just a little wry joke using terminology favoured by some contributors here who prefer to keep things "original".

Your car and my old one are EXACTLY the sort of thing I enjoy - sympathetic modifications totally in the spirit of club racing in the day. And I think that sums up the ethos of the 360 as well.

No offence taken. It made me smile the thought of it running at Santa Pod.
I can't take any credit for the mods done to her as I bought her pretty much as is, I really have just spanner checked her and changed the oil all year. Planning some real TLC for the winter.
Chris Williams enjoyed his first time out in her on Sunday and still has a silly grin on his face today. She is a real pleasure to race and looks great in amongst ( and beating ) the modern cars.
Bit upset that a few people thought it was wrong that an invitation car was allowed to win but Blimey she was twenty years older than anything else on the grid and only 290cc too big.
If she was running a non production engine with a pair of turbos and slicks then fair play but I think she is totally in the spirit of the event and I'm sure that the regs and classes will be updated to allow her and similar older club cars in next year.
I agree with the posts that suggests that Appendix K cars are excluded as they could really take the Clubmanship out of a really great event.
The banter in the garages the night before was very very funny with several teams claiming times that Hamilton would be proud of. We obviously joined in and I think the Hot Rod would have broken most land speed records if there were any truth in our boasts!!

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Ed Simpson

involving scouring pads, long pokey things and bits of wire.

We told you not to mention the long pokey things!

[Ed Simpson]

There was confusion regarding this but the track allowed 105 and I think thats the way its going to stay. It was something to do with the way they were measured I think.
Ed

[Ed Simpson]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

We told you not to mention the long pokey things!

Its Ok the long pokey things are only available on special order and not many peple will have done the three week training course to use them properly! I think our secrets safe!

[Moosehead]

Is anyone else finding it strange that in this thread and the others concerning the 360 event that everyone seems to agree that Appk is not good for 'club' motorsport yet normally everyone is so biased towards it

[terence]

Originally Posted by SAMD

I asked somewhere a wee while ago about how the noise levels are measured. What I am trying to get at is, if I am running a V6 engine and I bring the exhausts out, one on each side, where does the decibel meter measure from? 1 meter behind the car? 1 meter from each exhaust? Surely if all other things are equal, in those circumstances it should give a lower reading than a straight 4?

Sam,you are quite correct in your thinking,you are only having to silence three cylinders. The noise test is done at 1mtr from the exhaust exit at an angle of 45degrees.Most circuits have a purpose made meter with a rod attached which in turn has the 45 deg cut in to the end,the distance from exit to the meter is set at the 1 meter length.

[SAMD]

Originally Posted by Ed Simpson

- but I think we shot three marshalls on the first lap!!

very funny.

I was just thinking about what Peter had said about choking the Capri and had wondered if I could get a wee angle there