[WEC] FIA WEC calendar

[Adam43]

I’ve just caught up with the posts on Silverstone scattered across several threads.

Not sure my attempt to understand the situation Silverstone is in with the variety of events they have and the context of these events is going to land.

I’ll bring the discussion together in the WEC Calendar thread.

[flatlandsman]

I feel simply that calendar wise there is only one venue that can hold WEC in the UK. Donington is far too narrow, as is Brands which is also too dangerous, it was already been butchered years ago by MSV for risk assessment reasons. So I would not want a Grade 1 event there is it would destroy the track as it is, presumably something Palmer agrees with.

And my point about Silverstone is their eggs right now are in one basket and one basket only. MotoGP has suffered a large drop in crowds and probably costs a pretty penny to host, so I would not be shocked if they (a bit like BSB) make little effort to ensure that is there in the future.

They host a few tuner events etc, but again little risk, the promoter does all the work, the track has to provide far less. The Classic, I don't know but the crowds at that event seem to have dropped a lot aswell.

There were very few people there yesterday from what I saw. And maybe they would need a crowd of 30-50k to make some serious money from WEC, a crowd they never got anywhere near even in the halcyon LMP1 days.

SO business wise I get the point, but they have gone form a venue that would happily it seems host anything, to a venue that has its money pit and is happy to allow all sorts of series to fade away from the UK, I understand the profit and business decisions, but when you tether that with how dull, empty and vacuous the place is, it all helps to push this poor opinion some of us have.

If you look at Trustpilot nearly every review is linked to F1, nothing else.

It really is at the moment all they exist for, clubbies run themselves.


And yes you cannot watch testing at ANY time, I emailed them and asked.

[Adam43]

So other than for the GP the model sounds like every other track when it comes to hosting events. Clubbies run themselves there too. The other bigger series have the same model at other circuits as they do at Silverstone.

The only difference to other tracks in UK is that they hold some bigger events because they are the only track big enough to do so as you say.

If they dropped the GP, and surely that isn’t a suggestion, they’d operate much like the rest. Except it might not be feasible due to the size?

It’s fashionable to be nasty towards Silverstone. Hell it’s fashionable to just moan about everything in Motorsport! Ultimately it is just that they are the only venue that can host the GP. Shear scale means that dominates, but if we ignore that they have pretty much the same approach as anywhere except they have a bigger infrastructure.

FWIW I’ve had people turn up to testing while I’ve been there (but not come with me). Still that was a few years ago. I guess that it has changed. Which must disappoint the half a dozen people that want to do it! I guess that it isn’t worth the hassle. It’s a big place to police. I wonder if it was spoilt by the few.

[flatlandsman]

I am sort of having a dig at the place, and not.

While there are seemingly a few hundred thousand people prepared to pay massive amounts to watch f1 there, they are obviously prioritising that, they were struggling with it (due to the way it is funded and hosted) for years and they are now in a position where they can make serious money from it.

Hotels also clearly make money from meetings and hosting events, great idea. but little things like the bridge being only for their guests, when access to the Wing is so awful for the public!

The hotel, Escapade, and various others things are linked to this event aswell, I hardly think many of those flats will be hired out for clubbies or British GT or BTCC, they might be, but unlikely, but for f1 and MotoGP praps they will fetch a silly price.

My point being, this place now feels like some sort of half arsed theme park where you can see bits and bobs but the best seats and stuff cost big money like skipping the queue, it already costs you a fortune to go in but for just a bit more here you can skip to the front, you get my meaning?

When I first started going there, yes F1 was the big thing, but it seemed to me that they would have loads of things on there, WEC, Renault Day, WSBK, more than one BTCC round, BSB, GT racing, F3000, you name it.

Those days have gone in favour of maximising profit for 5 days a year, I get it, it makes business sense, but it also loses the spirit, the little element of magic that there once was there.

Would it really be so hard to allow access to an area to watch testing, most other venues do. I am sure some would even pay. It would not make them any money and if it's F1 teams fair enough no access, but for pre Goodwood, Classic, it cant hurt can it, but you just get s terse 4 sentence reply saying we don't allow access with no explanation.

It's the little things chap, that is my point.

[Adam43]

Chap! He he.

I get it, I mainly picked this up because of what looked like a don't care attack. It’s in the middle, and to my mind pretty much as you’d expect for something the other end of the spectrum from Cadwell.

As for the calendar. If we allow for which series is possible today. What we have now is not far off and arguably more caring to grass roots.

Silverstone is what it is. Could be better, but not dreadful. Which pretty much, in context, all of the tracks fall into. Apart from Anglesey, obviously.

[flatlandsman]

I think they do care about certain things but not others, my main sort of attack is the lack of interest in middling or developing series, they would often be a mainstay of Silverstone calendars, but not anymore, they do not take any risks, they play safe, knowing F1 will boost their coffers considerably every year.

As with so many things these days, it is business decisions made primarily about money, rather than popularity, development and the like. Makes business sense for sure, and with their recent history that is wise, but I think reading opinion here and elsewhere this place is probably the least popular track in the country which I find very sad.

And we all know WEC would be awesome there and right now would probably get a decent crowd, but they decided otherwise

[Badlands99]

I understand Silverstone's attitude to the F1 circus.

After all, you don't shoot the golden goose that pays for the upkeep and development of the facility.
Up to a point, I don't even mind the building of Escapade as I get the opportunity that it should provide.

Where I really struggle with the whole attitude of the people who run Silverstone on an event to event basis, is their complete disregard for the paying punters who don't want to shell out hundreds of £££ to watch F1 but do want to see some of the other national and international series.

I, like may others, spent the last weekend at the Silverstone 500 BGT meeting - firstly on Saturday as a spectator/photographer, and then on Sunday with my wife to watch the race. For the weekend, guess I spent somewhere in the region of £150 for tickets, fuel, beverages etc etc.

My frustrations with the place started immediately on entry. As at last years event, the tunnel under the paddock access road was blocked so, in order to reach the museum for a quick coffee, one had to cross the busy access road, and the walk further along the road whilst keeping an eye on traffic. For my mate and I, not an issue, but I did feel somewhat sorry for the elderly disabled gentleman on crutches who was clearly expressing his frustrations! Then to see, for the first time, the new Luffield Grandstand and associated two foot higher fence that 'protects' all of those 'lucky' ticket holders from the flying debris on the slowest corner of the track whilst removing one of the few fence free photo opportunities, just made my blood boil! Totally unnecessary!

Moving down to Club corner in front of the grandstand - a favourite photo spot as you could get close to the fence - only to find that access has been completely blocked by another row of fence and hoardings to even block the view! So onwards around Club, only to find that the old disabled viewing area that could be used on practice days has also gone - another place where fence free photography used to be possible.

But probably the biggest frustrations of all are the 'Free' grandstands! Aside from the fact that they are not 'free', why oh why if they are only going to open certain stands do they chose Woodcote B and the first stand at Copse?

Woodcote B is the biggest frustration as it prevents a view down the Wellington Straight - if they can only open one stand there, why not open Woodcote A which would allow the best view? And then at Copse, open the stand half way around the corner so as to afford a view down the straight and from Woodcote and towards Maggots further on!

We sat in Woodcote B for the race and spoke with a number of people around us who were equally frustrated. Just consider how many people might have been annoyed enough to prevent them attending again, or to tell others about how bad the experience is? Ah, sorry, I forgot! You don't give a s***!

Ultimately, these smaller meetings could/should be used as a taster of what Silverstone could offer if they wanted to and encourage people to possibly spend their hard earned money to go to the prestige events.
Would I go to F1 there? Not in a million years! Spa, Zandvoort, A1 Ring all offer much better facilities and even with travel cost offer better value for money!

Come on Silverstone, stop treating the paying public like second class citizens - there may come a time when you need us to survive!

HOME OF BRITISH MOTOR RACING? I don't think so ....... they really are not as good as their own hype suggests!

[joeb]

This is a very timely article and feels like Thomas Laudenbach may be a forum contributor!

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...dar-expansion/

Some of the good bits:

“For me… do we need two races in Bahrain and Qatar?” he said. “Don’t get me wrong, [I have] nothing against these countries, it’s just we have two out of eight there.

“I would be happy to do two races in North America. It depends on the calendar, but it’s a huge market so I think we could live with two. At least one race in China, and I would say another race in Asia, which we have now with Japan for example.

[Coach Ep]

Don't be surprised if a 3rd race in the Middle East will be added to the calendar. Saudi Arabi comes to mind. It's where the money is - and more importantly - it's where governments (and affiliated companies) are willing to foot the bill for FIA's 2nd tier WC to come to town. A second race in N-A would probably end up being at Indy or Mexico-City, taking into account the series preference for grade 1 tracks with garages.

[veeten]

I Read that article... I like this guy a lot of what he says has been what I have been posting for some time. The two most important races we need on the European part of the calendar, along with France and Italy, are Germany and Great Britain. Porsche vs BMW, on the Nurburgring, even if its the GP circuit, would bring plenty of fans in ( and just might be the incentive to get M-B to take a second look).

Then there's the British, especially with Aston Martin joining the fray next year. And will McLaren have their Hypercar ready? Outside of Le Mans, where else would get even the biggest response of these "Knights of the Monarchy" going head-to-head but on home soil.

As for the Asian tour, Shanghai makes a great addition with Japan (hint hint, Honda. Stop that foot-dragging, Toyota's waiting...) But if not there, there are other alternatives that work, like Kuala Lampoor, or even "Down Under" , as there's a great number of circuits that could definitely work. Remember the 'Race of a thousand years', and I'm sure that many would quite alright with a calendar event.

Just some ideas, but I believe that Laudenbach understands.

[flatlandsman]

I think some of this depends on what if anything motivates the ACO and FIA into these decisions,l it is probably money so whoever pays the most to host or passes enough to various people to host gets a round.

But I would also hope new places are a thing, there are never crowds of any size in any Middle East races as the locals don't give a damn, most of the people there are ex pats, I will refrain Abu Dhabui seems popular.

How about Australia, could any track host WEC there? We would all love Bathurst of course but I doubt it.

Germany to refresh interest and with new GT3 makes there too is vital. I think UK is possible but I do not think Silverstone will want to pay over the odds as they maybe did before, Donington is possible, but I struggle to imagine it hosting something this big anymore.

[v8supes]

TBH as much as id love the WEC and/or ELMS to come back to the UK i cant ever see it happening. They try and keep us hanging on to a little bit of hope only to rip it away every year. We dont have a god given right to a round of the championship.

[flatlandsman]

Do you not think Supes that that is also our problem, I would guess the ACO would PREFER a round here, but every time they try Silverstone dither or quibble about money and the Middle East come in and say we will happily pay.

You are right we do not deserve a round, same as we did not when F1 was costing them so much, but they found a way, and that for me is part of the issue, I do not think Silverstone are really that fussed, certainly not to pay over the odds if that is the case. And as discussed elsewhere business wise they are right as historically even in times of great racing crowds were not great

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by v8supes

TBH as much as id love the WEC and/or ELMS to come back to the UK i cant ever see it happening. They try and keep us hanging on to a little bit of hope only to rip it away every year. We dont have a god given right to a round of the championship.

We don't have a god given right to a round. But the ACO puts out fan surveys and then doesn't act on what the results are. So it's understandable that the fans then complain about it.

2017 Fan Survey most popular circuits (in order):
- Le Mans
- Spa
- Silverstone
- Sebring
- Nurburgring
- Fuji

We've dropped 3 of them.

Most popular fan suggestion:
- Varied race lengths

Notice that they did do this - which is great. But they chose a circuit which didn't feature in the fans popular list, Bahrain. That's almost a spiteful commitment to the fan survey. Oh you like those races? You're not getting them anymore. But we'll give you a longer race in a place you didn't like. Don't say we're not good to you!

Yes of course Silverstone, Sebring and N'Ring don't have a right to be on the calendar. But you can't ask fans what they want, ignore it, and then expect them to be fine with it.

A fan survey was also launched for 2023, with results in November, but I can't seem to find those results.

[Plantagenet]

Re, Silverstone (again, sorry)
I might be being very optimistic here, but I sense that WEC is on the cusp of a real revival given the surge in entries to the hypercar/lmdh class, and being more more road relevant than F1.
And there is a lot (and I mean a lot) of hospitality that has been built or is being built at Silverstone. You almost miss the turning point at Maggots gazing at all the new apartments they've built up there. Then there is the new Hilton opposite the start line. Surely the investors for this stuff would value another marque event after the top 2 - their current business model would appear one-sided to put it mildly.

I'm living in hope, but it's a great circuit and the best sportscars in the world should be racing there despite all of our grumblings about the place.

[flatlandsman]

Plant

I think you might be missing a vital point.

Those ventures have not been done by Silverstone they are both private AT Silver-stone and they are probably paying some kind of rent to be there. Not sure on apartments as I think they are on land not owned by the track not the hotel for sure is. The hotel for sure is probably very busy with meetings and clients and people testing and working at Aston etc, the Wing was apparently very busy with this kind of stuff for a while so that business plan for a hotel is clear.

The apartments are really sort of timeshare, you can own them but not live in them, they are renting out, staying at certain events etc. Main worry there is the access to MAggots on the outside, we were promised it would remain, but it has not been open for over 2 years now, nearly 3.

None of this has any effect on the track, which has to pay for an event like WEC, and probably a pretty penny, and if, as we think, WEC gets more popular that amount will only rise as the rights holder knows people want rounds.

the rights holders of ANY series F1 included go to the highest bidders FIRST, it is why the calendars for F1 and MotoGP have expanded to include high paying venues without dropping too many existing ones.

The concern for the UK is that traditionally this event has not seen big crowds, remove that income from the hosting fee and you see the issue, Bahrain, Qatar do not care about crowds, just sportwashing.